General Yuzuru Chat

[makebelieveup]

2 hours ago, Henni147 said:

 

The thing is: At Worlds Yuzu's popped 4S didn't really get -5 GOE. In fact: It didn't get any GOE at all 

The scoresheet looked like this:

2S*   BV: 0.00  GOE: - - - - - - - - -   total: 0.00

*invalid Element

 

If that pop had happened in the freeskate, I think it would've looked like this (more or less):

  Hide contents

2S     BV: 1.30     GOE: 0 +1 +1 +3 (Italian judge)  -1 0 -3 (US judge) +1 0     total: 1.35

 

So yeah, in the free a pop into a double gets a bit more than 1 point. In the short 0. Not that it really matters... The damage is done with the pop either way.

 

#Sidenote: a 2S with -5 GOE would receive 0.65 points.

 

 

To the judging system in general: in my opinion the corpus is fine, but the details like bullets, PCS guidelines or error features for calls are too vague, unbalanced or non-existing in the handbook. They leave too much room for inappropriate scoring:

  Hide contents

Example 1: you cannot see in the scoresheet where the final GOE come from. Which bullets does the jump satisfy according to judge 4?

Example 2: what does "good height and distance" mean? Higher than 50cm and further than 3m? In that case skater A with 70cm and 3.80m gets the same reward or even less than skater B with 55cm, 2.90m (~3m) and additional features. Well.

Example 3: "the jump is effortless throughout". Means... what? exactly? Less than half rink preparation, no fight in the air and no fight for the landing? Ewn... I think we already have three other equal bullets for that one?

Example 4: I still have no idea what you have to do for a 7.75 in composition. It has to be visibly better than 7.50, but definitely worse than 8.00. Now you only have to know, what a 7.50 or 8.00 composition looks like. Meow.

 

 

EDIT: forget about the entire post. I just realized that we have updates in the judging system for the  next season. And I'm still like... wait, WHAT?! It's disgusting, really.

I'm not sure I just thought it means it will receive a -5 of the base value of a 2s on top of it being invalidated. so 0 minus the -5 goe on a 2s. idk whatever now lol 

[sallycinnamon]

4 hours ago, ruruzest said:

The ultimate corruption! That’s what it is!

Has this been shared?

 

 

This has been shared already but thank you for bringing it up again.

I loved the whole interview but one part particularly stood out:

 

Quote

"I've been keeping track on not only my competitions, a lot of competitions. I've seen the way judges evaluate and I think I have to fight on. As I continue battling, I want to keep doing what I want to express, and attempting challenges that I'd be proud of."

 

Reading this hurts in a way because I think what he shows on the ice is not respected enough, but on the other hand no matter what happens he'll continue what he wants to do and he'll also continue to inspire millions of people around the world. As fans I think what we can do is to show how much we support him as he continues to make his dreams come true.

[Sabrina]

8 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

 

This has been shared already but thank you for bringing it up again.

I loved the whole interview but one part particularly stood out:

 

 

Reading this hurts in a way because I think what he shows on the ice is not respected enough, but on the other hand no matter what happens he'll continue what he wants to do and he'll also continue to inspire millions of people around the world. As fans I think what we can do is to show how much we support him as he continues to make his dreams come true.

Your Word in gods ear! I will never stop supporting him he deserves all the good thinks in the world ! 

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

 

Not to mention the number of back-counter 3A's and Yuzu-like costumes 

 

I think Yuzu wanted to do that twizzle+3A+twizzle this season, because the back-counter has become too mainstream 

Same with the hydroblading. It's not enough to simply hydro in FS and EX anymore. To stand out, you have to do it in the SP, too! Aaaand in your EX it has to last longer than 10 seconds, be 0.005mm close to the ice and you have to kiss it. Because standards.

And if you do it in the programs you have to add a ballet leap with full turn as you exit the hydroblade. Because that's how you know you're  The Champ. 

 

I'm waiting for the day when Yuzu brings out all-new moves no one's thought of before and then people will be scrambling again to do them . Would also love to see him try that swirly layback slide thingy Kevin Aymoz does...what's it called? The 'JZ slide' ? This thing :

 

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, Henni147 said:

and you have to kiss it

but that part was just because...well...it's Ice-Chan, you know...

[mercedes]

24 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

but that part was just because...well...it's Ice-Chan, you know...

I'm sure ice-Chan has standard,not like the first guy that come along can kiss her

[Sabrina]

14 minutes ago, mercedes said:

I'm sure ice-Chan has standard,not like the first guy that come along can kiss her

ICE-Chan is picky and Yuzu is the chosen one 

[rockstaryuzu]

44 minutes ago, mercedes said:

I'm sure ice-Chan has standard,not like the first guy that come along can kiss her

Of course not. She totally saved herself for Yuzu.  and she made him work hard to get even that little kiss. Ice-Chan is a tsundere. 

 

[kaeryth]

9 hours ago, Ashley2162018 said:

All I can say is rewarding under rotations more is just telling everyone its okay to cheat jumps.

So much for "sport" as a way to challenge yourself .

Are they telling the future skaters that its okay not to perfect their skills?

 

Basically.

Spoiler

 

 

 

[yuzuangel]

36 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

Basically.

  Hide contents

 

 

 

I didn't watch the video yet, but coaches teaching skaters how to "cheat" jumps (although they don't call it that) is very common. Variants of "The trend used to be to not prerotate your jumps but now prerotating is in fashion" or "The system prefers jumps with prerotation now" is frankly a very common thing I've heard coaches say.

 

Coaches and skaters adapt to the times; that's how they survive in a sport that's ruthless, opaque, and highly biased. They see what's winning and they copy it. For example, I see little skaters jump with rippons and tanos more often than not and actually it can be easier for them because it keeps their core engaged. 

[KatjaThera]

Honestly, I think Yuzu and his team are very much aware of ISU and the judges' unfairness and it's something they keep in mind when making the programs. That Brian pretty much always figures out the score before it's announced shows he knows how the judges work and since Yuzu researches so much, he surely knows, too (though in the adrenaline rush of a post-performance, and with his own feelings in the mix, he doesn't always figure it out before the scores are announced - Helsinki FS is the best example; Yuzu probably never imagined they'd call his 4S UR, but it seemed like Brian expected a lower score, so perhaps expected the UR call, knowing the judges or perhaps knowing the angles they have or whatever).

 

Whenever I see these things and think about the scoring and everything, I think it's so incredible in many ways, how far he has come. He's never had the kind of support and favoritism many of his rivals have had. You can probably count on the fingers of one hand the number of times he was overscored and those were usually either in special cases (CoC '14, though I still have my reservations on calling that overscoring) or the overscoring was very small. The number of times he was underscored is a different issue. I don't think we fans will ever forget that H&L is the best Free Skate program of the previous scoring system, while in the same time the most underscored world record ever. I'm sure Yuzu knows that, too.

 

The thing is, though, that Yuzu is a fair guy. And while he does want to win, he will never want to win while ignoring his own standards and principles. A winning program, even a world record would be meaningless to him unless it was clean by his own standards. Yes, the judges give crap scores and I'm sure it does hurt him to some extent to see his hard earned and worked for and very often impeccably executed 3A, with levels of difficulty and quality that other skaters can only dream about, NOT get maximum GOE. But at the end of the day, his own standards are much higher than those of the judges. Honestly, up and coming skaters should pray he never takes up judging lol. Though I doubt the ISU would let him, anyway.

 

Now, I wonder if his new goal might not be to find another way to break the system. Even though they've changed the rules to give his rivals an advantage and give him more disadvantages, to find a way to still win decisively despite that. I think there's a chance he might not have been as upset about judging at Worlds as we were, because he wasn't perfect by his own standards. It's possible he still thinks being perfect by his own standards would put him ahead of anyone else even with the ISU judging. But even so, I'm sure he took note of it and will keep it in mind from now on. His talk of getting all the quads was indicative of this, IMO. While in some ways I think he/they miscalculated at Worlds, I generally trust Yuzu and his team to be prepared to fight the ISU (even while they'll never really admit it, because they're too gentlemanly to). So we might be in for some mind blowing stuff... (if not, it'll just be more heartbreak... )

[Maleko]

 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, KatjaThera said:

find a way to still win decisively despite that

You'll note that this is now, will always be, and always has been, Yuzu's approach to competition. The only thing that changes is whatever the 'that' might be. Seriously, if an earthquake and tsunami didn't stop him, if a potentially career-ending collision didn't stop him, if season after season of injury and pain didn't stop him, some trifling judging nonsense surely isn't going to, either. 

 

Brian has said it many times: he and his skaters' jobs are to work within the rules and the judges' scoring in order to find a way to win.  So far they've been spectacularly successful at it. The main thing that made this season look so bad is because the judging was a dumpster fire for everything. The men, the women, the pairs and the ice dance were all f**ked at every competition, IMO. 

 

And because it was a dumpster fire, there was opportunity for favoritism to rear it's ugly head. ( I keep thinking of the resurgence of the 'skating while Russian' bonus in ice dance, but there are lots of other examples.) My hope is that now that ISU and the judges got that out of their system, scores will at least make sense next year. 

 

As for Worlds this year, because of a couple of things Yuzu said here and there, I'm of the opinion that he wasn't in his best condition going into it and it affected his mental game, which is why he ended up popping the Sal. And after that, it was a case of holding things together, and it just wasn't quite enough to win. Maybe that plays into his seeming to be less upset about the scores than you'd expect.

[Yuzu_GOAT]

I totally didn't just spend a hundred and fifty dollars on Yuzu magazines.... totally... 

[TallyT]

3 minutes ago, Yuzu_GOAT said:

I totally didn't just spend a hundred and fifty dollars on Yuzu magazines.... totally... 

 

Think of it as an investment in happiness