General Yuzuru Chat

[Sammie]

OT 

 

I hope everyone stay safe 

 

[monchan]

3 hours ago, mintchocolate said:

Is European championships a very high Standard competition over past years? I think it cannot be compared with GPF 

Depends of lvl of skaters each period. European Men are not strong these days, it's basically Javi w friends. It's another story w ladies thou, true bloodbath of Russian ladies. Still, it's a very important (must-attend) event for all European skaters for its historic prestige.

 

GPF is ALWAYS a highly competitive event (even if some top skaters withdraw etc, the comp is still super intense). While ECC or 4CC are just local events with competitiveness depending on local skaters' lvl, GPF most of the times picks out the hottest skaters atm (thru preliminary round aka the GPs).

[Hydroblade]

I've been singing that damned baby shark song in my head but like...

Yuzu-ru ru ru rurururu

Yuzu-ru ru ru rurururu

Yuzu-ru ru ru rurururu

YU ZU RU

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, LadyLou said:

I agree with your point, that's why later I said that maybe they would have not reached those results without each other (but Yuzu would have likely found his path somehow, tho of course we can't know if that path would have lead to 2 OGM)

It was more of a speculation based on the perception of the skater's strenght compared to the rest of the field (linked to the titles achieved, of course, but also to how they were achieved).

 

By themselves, Javi's accomplishments are amazing: 2 Worlds + many podiums + his incredible string of Euro titles.

But if you consider Yuzuru's accomplishments... same number of WC, but in head to head competitions Yuzu won gold over Javi more often, and in general Javi was always the one trying to catch up (e.g. he changed his layout after GPF15 to close the gap)...

idk how much dominant Javi was considered between 2015 and 2016, I wasn't in the FS fandom back then, but while in Boston Javi cemented his status as top skater, that very season Yuzuru had been the one to break all the records and shake the whole FS world.

Despite his Boston and 4CC17 losses, Yuzuru was still the favourite going into WC17 (until the SP), so I'd say that, Euros aside, the general crowd and most media didn's see Javi as 'the one to beat' (the one with the highest scoring potential, the one that can lose only if he makes mistakes, the one whose silver medals are considered as losses).

then Yuzuru went to win Worlds17 with drama and WR in a very high-level competition, and that is the kind of things that sticks in people's memory and feeds the perception of greatness. And historically OGMs are what are valued the most and Yuzu got 2 of them (again, one with WR and the other with drama, the guy just can't do without) 

 

So in this sense, when people think about Javi's titles they are amazed, but when they think about Yuzuru's they are more amazed. It's not that Javi isn't a top skater, it's just that at the very top of this generation, in general perception, there was always someone else

that's what I mean with 'shine more': if Javi (with all his accomplishments), had had as a rival  a 'merely' 1 OGM+1Worlds champion or a 2xWorlds champion+OSM or something and if many people had been breaking each other's records (like between Vancouver and Sochi), it would have felt different, but Yuzu hoarded the major titles and all the WRs for himself 

I hope I've explained myself

 

 

unnecessarily long opinion under spoiler

  Hide contents

 

Historically, yes, it has the tradition and the prestige. Very few skaters would skip it (unless e.g. olympic year), while some skaters sometimes skip GP to focus on the second half of the season.

4CC is much more recent and feds' strategies to send 2nd tier skaters mirror this 'lack of prestige' of the title...plus the unfortunate thing of being closer to Worlds than Euros... plus that iirc in the last years the men who went to win 4CC have not conquered WC gold in the same year

GP series is quite recent too (tho much older than 4CC iirc), and it's the most important competition of 1st half of the season, but maybe it would be considered a little lower in 'prestige' than Euros...or so it used to be, when Euros had a very strong field (like when FS thrived in many countries and Russia had so many champions, up till when there where Plushy, Lambiel, Joubert who all had WC titles and even OWG medals). I think calling yourself 'European champion' still sounds better than being 'GPF winner' to most casual fans (who might not know what the heck GPF is, while Euros are easy to understand). Though I believe being a GPF winner counts more than winning 4CC right now, for those skaters from non-European countries...that's the unbalance due to 'tradition'

 

But if we look at the actual fields, Euros Men field is quite depleted of top skaters and it has been so for a few years already...basically since when getting >270(?) scores was required, I think....

Men GPF I'd say has been usually much tougher than Euros too, in the last years (of course we're speaking about top level here, the fight for podium and socres >270-280), because it usually has the very top skaters from NA, Asia and Europe...post Vancouver, there were Patrick and Daisuke and the other Japanese top skaters there, who obviously couln't compete at Euros

if you think about WC podiums in the last 8 years, I think aside from Javi there were few skaters form Europe...going by memory, I think Gachinski(?) in 2011, then 2012 was NA+Asia, 2013 NA+Asia(Denis) and Javi, 2014 Asia + Javi, 2015 same, 2016 same

2017 all Asia, finally 2018 was NA+Asia+Russia, so overall Javi and 2 Russians were all the medalists Europe had at the last 8 WCs...whoa I hadn't realized it was that bad

 

 

to keep the wall-text OT

I'm not ready

But guys, don't forget, Javi probably would have had an Olympic medal in Sochi if he hadn't made the error of doing one too many 4S (was it 4S? I can't recall, but whichever one it was). If not for that rules infraction, his skate was one of the few decent ones in the general splatfests that was the Sochi men's free skate. I really think that Yuzu's general brilliance has blinded everyone to how great the men's field has been overall in the last couple years. Look at the final group of 6 to skate in PC. Of them, any one of them could have podiumed IMO. During Patrick's heyday, that wasn't the case at all. 

[Paskud]

1 hour ago, Hydroblade said:

I've been singing that damned baby shark song in my head but like...

Yuzu-ru ru ru rurururu

Yuzu-ru ru ru rurururu

Yuzu-ru ru ru rurururu

YU ZU RU

Noooo! I didn't know this. Now it don't want get out of my head 

[quadaxelwin]

3 hours ago, LadyLou said:

I agree with your point, that's why later I said that maybe they would have not reached those results without each other (but Yuzu would have likely found his path somehow, tho of course we can't know if that path would have lead to 2 OGM)

It was more of a speculation based on the perception of the skater's strenght compared to the rest of the field (linked to the titles achieved, of course, but also to how they were achieved).

 

By themselves, Javi's accomplishments are amazing: 2 Worlds + many podiums + his incredible string of Euro titles.

But if you consider Yuzuru's accomplishments... same number of WC, but in head to head competitions Yuzu won gold over Javi more often, and in general Javi was always the one trying to catch up (e.g. he changed his layout after GPF15 to close the gap)...

idk how much dominant Javi was considered between 2015 and 2016, I wasn't in the FS fandom back then, but while in Boston Javi cemented his status as top skater, that very season Yuzuru had been the one to break all the records and shake the whole FS world.

Despite his Boston and 4CC17 losses, Yuzuru was still the favourite going into WC17 (until the SP), so I'd say that, Euros aside, the general crowd and most media didn's see Javi as 'the one to beat' (the one with the highest scoring potential, the one that can lose only if he makes mistakes, the one whose silver medals are considered as losses).

then Yuzuru went to win Worlds17 with drama and WR in a very high-level competition, and that is the kind of things that sticks in people's memory and feeds the perception of greatness. And historically OGMs are what are valued the most and Yuzu got 2 of them (again, one with WR and the other with drama, the guy just can't do without) 

 

So in this sense, when people think about Javi's titles they are amazed, but when they think about Yuzuru's they are more amazed. It's not that Javi isn't a top skater, it's just that at the very top of this generation, in general perception, there was always someone else

that's what I mean with 'shine more': if Javi (with all his accomplishments), had had as a rival  a 'merely' 1 OGM+1Worlds champion or a 2xWorlds champion+OSM or something and if many people had been breaking each other's records (like between Vancouver and Sochi), it would have felt different, but Yuzu hoarded the major titles and all the WRs for himself 

I hope I've explained myself

 

 

unnecessarily long opinion under spoiler

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Historically, yes, it has the tradition and the prestige. Very few skaters would skip it (unless e.g. olympic year), while some skaters sometimes skip GP to focus on the second half of the season.

4CC is much more recent and feds' strategies to send 2nd tier skaters mirror this 'lack of prestige' of the title...plus the unfortunate thing of being closer to Worlds than Euros... plus that iirc in the last years the men who went to win 4CC have not conquered WC gold in the same year

GP series is quite recent too (tho much older than 4CC iirc), and it's the most important competition of 1st half of the season, but maybe it would be considered a little lower in 'prestige' than Euros...or so it used to be, when Euros had a very strong field (like when FS thrived in many countries and Russia had so many champions, up till when there where Plushy, Lambiel, Joubert who all had WC titles and even OWG medals). I think calling yourself 'European champion' still sounds better than being 'GPF winner' to most casual fans (who might not know what the heck GPF is, while Euros are easy to understand). Though I believe being a GPF winner counts more than winning 4CC right now, for those skaters from non-European countries...that's the unbalance due to 'tradition'

 

But if we look at the actual fields, Euros Men field is quite depleted of top skaters and it has been so for a few years already...basically since when getting >270(?) scores was required, I think....

Men GPF I'd say has been usually much tougher than Euros too, in the last years (of course we're speaking about top level here, the fight for podium and socres >270-280), because it usually has the very top skaters from NA, Asia and Europe...post Vancouver, there were Patrick and Daisuke and the other Japanese top skaters there, who obviously couln't compete at Euros

if you think about WC podiums in the last 8 years, I think aside from Javi there were few skaters form Europe...going by memory, I think Gachinski(?) in 2011, then 2012 was NA+Asia, 2013 NA+Asia(Denis) and Javi, 2014 Asia + Javi, 2015 same, 2016 same

2017 all Asia, finally 2018 was NA+Asia+Russia, so overall Javi and 2 Russians were all the medalists Europe had at the last 8 WCs...whoa I hadn't realized it was that bad

 

 

to keep the wall-text OT

I'm not ready

 

Hey on the bright side for Javi; he achieved straight European titles, and 2 straight world titles, whilst Hanyu never won Worlds consecutively, and he hasn't won 4CC yet (equivalent to European or similar).

 

But Hanyu won 2 olympics, which are better, but Javi still achieved titles Hanyu has yet to achieve. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Moria Polonius said:

Let me give my 10 cents on Misha Ge: Misha is making it sound like the program has absolutely nothing to do with Yuzu. But listening to the song, looking at the costume, it's obvious who Hongyi Chen was inspired by. Just like it was obvious who Yuzu was inspired by when he came out with Notte Stellata. 

 

 

OMG. What is this new drama again? I'm getting flashbacks to Faoi when he uploaded that long friendship post and then deleted it hours later. 

It seems Misha just cannot keep quite sometimes on social media. He does seem a bit immature in handling publicity compared to Javi. 

[MeowZu]

Wow! Thanks for all yout insights. I guess being a Yuzu fan needs a Yuzu-level of patience. I don't know how you guys do it! Hahahahaha

 

In other news, few more days before ACI. This is the 1st comp I'll be watching/following as a fan. But I don't want to watch it real time because I'm a jinx. Hahahaha. But how to resist? Lols. 

 

Have a great day, everyone!!!

[kelly]

4 minutes ago, MeowZu said:

Wow! Thanks for all yout insights. I guess being a Yuzu fan needs a Yuzu-level of patience. I don't know how you guys do it! Hahahahaha

 

In other news, few more days before ACI. This is the 1st comp I'll be watching/following as a fan. But I don't want to watch it real time because I'm a jinx. Hahahaha. But how to resist? Lols. 

 

Have a great day, everyone!!!

Fear not, ACI is the time for first pancakes 

[MeowZu]

Just now, kelly said:

Fear not, ACI is the time for first pancakes 

Hahahahaha so what is this pancake thing? Newbie here!!! Hahahaha

[Paskud]

Just now, MeowZu said:

Hahahahaha so what is this pancake thing? Newbie here!!! Hahahaha

Here you have everything about first pancake 

[MeowZu]

11 minutes ago, Paskud said:

Here you have everything about first pancake 

Hahahahaha this is so cool! Thank you!

[Paskud]

3 minutes ago, MeowZu said:

Hahahahaha this is so cool! Thank you!

Don't thank me, but @LadyLou - savior of all new fanyus

[quadaxelwin]

36 minutes ago, Paskud said:

Here you have everything about first pancake 

This is the coolest ever! I think if he sets a new WR at ACI again, I will certainly scream at the screen. 

[Danibellerika]

2 hours ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

Hey on the bright side for Javi; he achieved straight European titles, and 2 straight world titles, whilst Hanyu never won Worlds consecutively, and he hasn't won 4CC yet (equivalent to European or similar).

 

But Hanyu won 2 olympics, which are better, but Javi still achieved titles Hanyu has yet to achieve. 

 

 

Well Javi doesn't have GPF gold either.  And of course winning a consecutive Olympics highly trumps a consecutive worlds.  I don't really get why it's a bigger deal to win something consecutively a couple times (save for the olys due to the time gap). Winning consecutively shows good performance over a closer period.  Winning things spread out shows that you're capable of reaching the top level over a longer time period.  

[quadaxelwin]

8 minutes ago, Danibellerika said:

 

Well Javi doesn't have GPF gold either.  And of course winning a consecutive Olympics highly trumps a consecutive worlds.  I don't really get why it's a bigger deal to win something consecutively a couple times (save for the olys due to the time gap). Winning consecutively shows good performance over a closer period.  Winning things spread out shows that you're capable of reaching the top level over a longer time period.  

 

Well the Japanese media certainly loves 

orimpiku "Ni Nen Pa"

 

or GPF "Yon Nen Pa"

 

It's just another achievement title. Consecutive titles are hard to achieve likewise too.

 

I remember Japanese commentary always emphasizing it was Yuzu's "Yon nen pa" when he won GPF in 2016. 

They emphasize it more than any other media in my opinion