General Yuzuru Chat

[maxcellwire]

32 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

I know this probably belongs in the music thread but I really hope Yuzu can do an EX to this one day. It's such a powerfully emotional and heart-wrenching song and I can't think of another skater with the gravitas to pull it off. The vocals pierce right through your heart. I can't listen to it without my eyes watering.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

ngl when i saw the title i was hoping the dance would look like this: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15021289

 

[dorkyiceprince]

7 minutes ago, Whee1000 said:

Kyuudo is awesome. You focus on form and energy; you move slowly but with intent. I think he'd find it rewarding, and it is a very Japanese art. But of course vastly different than skating.  Although discipline is discipline   (Note: I actually know what I'm talking about a little bit because I've done it and received a certificate. But ages ago, so I forgot a lot. But I'm still kinda proud of it so please let me brag a little.)  Oh, and yes he'd look good in hakama. 

 
I've always loved all forms of archery _{*cough*Merida-is-my-fav-disney-princess-for-a-reason*cough*} 
But Zuzu in hakama with the Kyuudo stance....

 

ngl when i saw the title i was hoping the dance would look like this: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15021289

 

It's 1 am...lets just say that gave me quite a fright... 

[Echuka]

This is from Russian TV show “Ice Age.Kids”. The boy performes Yuzuru-style program. For those who did not catch the idea there is Japanese flag at the end 

 

https://youtu.be/hLkbb3uLO1Q

 

 

 

[Old Cat Lady]

As far as the Ciontu comments, I wouldn't be surprised if Yuzu himself wanted it cut. I feel like people have become so hyper focused on it that they've missed the bigger point of the show and that entire week.  It's supposed to be a celebration and a display of joy and gratitude for all the support he got over the years.  I don't think he had any intention of starting a big social crusade.

 

And as fans, you have to be careful of how you react. Overzealous fans will turn anyone on the border to the negative: neutrals will dislike him, people who already dislike him will start hating him.  As a fellow fan, I get embarrassed/annoyed by the crazies.  Personally, while I don't necessarily dislike a celebrity because of their fans, annoying fans will turn me off from following a celebrity that I'm not already invested in. 

 

And as previous posters said, people seem to be determined to feel how they want to feel and then look for excuses to justify that feeling.  I will correct things that I think are factually wrong, but it's a waste of energy to tell someone to quit being crazy.  And very often real trolls are literally psycho/sociopaths so reason and empathy doesn't work on them either.  The best thing you can do is just be a positive and supportive fan.

 

as an aside, i've been binge-watching The Skating Lesson.  Anyone else think this show is absolutely terrible?  Some gems so far: Hanyu hates Uno, you need to "save room" in the marks for later in the season/other skaters, GOE should be based on bad/good/really good.  I honestly thought that this was just a fan reaction/gossip series until I started seeing the videos about GOE's and high profile skating community guests.  

[Whee1000]

@dorkyiceprince Men sometimes do kyuudo with the left shoulder/chest exposed. Just saying. 

[Echuka]

10 минут назад, Old Cat Lady сказал:

As far as the Ciontu comments, I wouldn't be surprised if Yuzu himself wanted it cut. I feel like people have become so hyper focused on it that they've missed the bigger point of the show and that entire week.  It's supposed to be a celebration and a display of joy and gratitude for all the support he got over the years.  I don't think he had any intention of starting a big social crusade.

 

And as fans, you have to be careful of how you react. Overzealous fans will turn anyone on the border to the negative: neutrals will dislike him, people who already dislike him will start hating him.  As a fellow fan, I get embarrassed/annoyed by the crazies.  Personally, while I don't necessarily dislike a celebrity because of their fans, annoying fans will turn me off from following a celebrity that I'm not already invested in. 

 

And as previous posters said, people seem to be determined to feel how they want to feel and then look for excuses to justify that feeling.  I will correct things that I think are factually wrong, but it's a waste of energy to tell someone to quit being crazy.  And very often real trolls are literally psycho/sociopaths so reason and empathy doesn't work on them either.  The best thing you can do is just be a positive and supportive fan.

 

as an aside, i've been binge-watching The Skating Lesson.  Anyone else think this show is absolutely terrible?  Some gems so far: Hanyu hates Uno, you need to "save room" in the marks for later in the season/other skaters, GOE should be based on bad/good/really good.  I honestly thought that this was just a fan reaction/gossip series until I started seeing the videos about GOE's and high profile skating community guests.  

+100500 to every word you’ve written. And me personally got very much worried about proposed hashtags and similar stuff bcs this will work as a red rag to a bull and will inspire even more hatred and dirt.

[Old Cat Lady]

2 hours ago, SparkleSalad said:

*plonk*

 

 

 

I just watched the medal ceremony/press conference for this competition.  It's good to see him smiling here.  I was thinking that he looked more miserable than I've ever seen him.  It's weird - he seemed to take the loss at 2015 worlds in good spirits, but he seemed absolutely crushed by this loss.  Wasn't sure if he was feeling depressed from his injury and was already worried that it might be his last competition, or if it was the idea of losing 2 years in a row, or if it's the idea of losing such a big lead, or if he was so outstanding earlier in the season that it was a harder fall when he skated poorly.

 

p.s. sorry for consecutive posts. can't figure out how to edit to include this quote

[ajnats]

28 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

i've been binge-watching The Skating Lesson.  Anyone else think this show is absolutely terrible? 

I only discovered them a few months ago and I listened to the episode after Worlds 2017. Made me realize they're not for me, but they seem to be popular. 

[GraceAndPower]

48 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

As far as the Ciontu comments, I wouldn't be surprised if Yuzu himself wanted it cut.

 

I don't think so. That part was already cut when Asahi replayed the show a second time on the day it happened, a month ago. So the only time it aired was during the live broadcast.

 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that it was a very deliberate choice on Yuzuru's part to bring up that topic on the day he was live. And I agree with the posters who say it smacks of censorship that it was cut, especially so immediately...

[Echuka]

Poor little boy... I have a son of the same age. And he’s in sport too. But I am very cruel and dry mom.

 

[axelsandwich]

3 hours ago, Xen said:

@Toni @wingman:

My own 2 cents on this, and it's long, a bit depressing, don't read it if you don't want to have bad feels for the day, so I'll keep it hidden. 

  Hide contents

1) Regarding what he said at CiONTU:

• I think it's enough for us, his fans to know that regardless of how much/intensity, was involved, at some point in his life and his skating career, he felt enough despair. I as a fan, personally, do not care for the amount of details, knowing is enough. Perhaps that was his intention-the message itself and the facts are very personal, and not something usually open to the public. It perhaps was meant for the closest of fans, the ones in attendance, the ones who follow him through and unconditionally support him. That such a group is aware is perhaps enough for him and all he is willing to reveal for now. Any further is up to him, at his pace, when he wants to show it that publicly-such details until then, are a purely private matter.
• East asia is realistically, very very much behind the times when it comes to mental health-the topic he raised is still viewed as a form of "mental weakness" of the individual. And for a society that values social coherence and harmony, being a crusader would be viewed as "fighting for attention" (in the negative sense). So long as east asia holds that mentality, I would not go on a campaign for the sake of "freedom of speech"-much as I personally support the idea of freedom of speech, anti-bullying, openness to discuss mental health etc, this is still a taboo topic in east asia for the sake of "harmonious society." If I were a PR firm, I'd advise against my clients on bringing up any of these issues while they still require some degree of popularity (while bullying is not encouraged, it's still a semi taboo topic). Furthermore, antis have used Yuzu's message against him already. A part of me is suspicious and wonder if Yuzu or even the team at Asahi saw this, so it was perhaps a deliberate attempt to stop the attacks so to speak. 

2) Regarding Antis:

• I'm sorry, there are some who already check even our forum. At some point, someone alerted me to the fact that an anti had already taken my translation of an interview with Zhao Hongbo (head coach of CSA) out of context by selective re-translation, and used it as anti-Yuzu fodder (dunno, guess to show even CSA agrees with anti view points). But what can we do other than point out that a) the original translation and video is not clearly anti; and b) notify people who don't know, that such a re-post is done with Anti-Yuzu context in mind?
• Antis are not Antis of Yuzu based on facts-for them being anti is an issue of belief or principle. It's a subjective viewpoint for many, that are not based in logic. Maybe some of the milder ones will at least go neutral over time. But the extreme ones? Probably not. There's quite a few studies done on extreme beliefs, confirmatory bias etc, and sadly, there is some objective fact that once something reaches a "belief" level, facts will have the opposite effect and simply reinforce existing bias (an "us vs them" mentality). 
• For now, I think the issue is "converting neutrals"-what I mean is allowing and helping neutral fans who do not have a confirmed bias, better understand FS, Yuzu and appreciate what he does. That is one area we can succeed. However, I would not go in the way of doing a loud campaign against TV Asahi, for reasons I'll get to next. It would fail pretty spectacularly in international relations/diplomacy when the US tries to brow-beat a neutral country (say Switzerland!) into supporting something that said country isn't into, and we see how that goes for US public relations image overseas. Our fandom in FS circles, is pretty much the equivalent of the US/China/Russia in international politics, so we need to handle our power with care when it comes to influencing fans lest we turn neutrals against us. 

3) Regarding Cyberbullying and dealing with antis:

• Here is the problem in us dealing with cyberbullying and even going too strong on some issues: in some cases, us Hanyu fans are viewed as cyberbullies. Part of the reason, is that the definition of "cyberbully" can be very fluid. Remember when ice network didn't have Yuzu's SP on its poll? Some Hanyu fans made sarcastic remarks and commented on it, and for some people in the FS community, that could be a form of "cyberbullying." That's where it matters that the sheer number of Hanyu fans (vocal ones even) carry the heft of US/China/Russia in international politics. It's considered by some more "neutral" people to be "rude." And "rude" may be enough to lead to ridicule against the Hanyu fandom, or at least not "like" Yuzu because of his "fans." Ridiculous? Illogical? Yeah, but since when did people always follow logic?
• From a personal perspective, I personally know people who in general do not like Hanyu fans for a myriad of reasons. As for how close-well, we are talking about the male half (and actually some of the female members) of my skating circles at home, that's some 20+ people I interact with fairly regularly. Whether justified or not, they tend to view Hanyu fans as a) into him for his looks; b) worship him as a god/saint/immortal; c) probably don't know anything about other skaters, don't watch other skaters because only have eyes for Hanyu; d) tend to not know jack about figure skating in general as a sport, only knows about Yuzu and that's it. This is in spite the fact they know I'm a Hanyu fan and probably negate all the above, and that they personally like Hanyu the most and would agree that other skaters are not at his level. Btw, they and even some of the Yuzu fans I know personally, don't actually view me as a Yuzu-fan (because I'm too...reasonable/polyamorous of other skaters)! Some of them even watched CiONTU (sadly some also ignored his talk due to lack of translation), but would also separate their like of him personally, and their dislike and ridicule of his extreme fandoms since they are separate critiques.
• Are the people mentioned above justified? Well, admittedly, our own fandom isn't completely clean. I've mentioned before that this forum is one of the more "sane" places devoted to him. I've walked into Baidu online fan bars for him, and ran out. There was for me at least, too much emphasis on his looks, too much fawning over him, and significant enough criticism leveled at Javi/Misha/Evgenia etc about how they are just using him as a tool for popularity online, and some genuine dislike of other skaters (Shoma, Nate etc) that was borderline anti. Even if this is a minority of the fandom, it does leave a lasting impression on people. And well, what can we do about it? Sadly not a lot in terms of control over fandom, and I doubt we want to cause a real split in the fandom over definition of "fan."

4) As for what we can do:

• Well I think some of the hashtags that have came up, such as "why I like Yuzuru" etc and even that "worst photography" contest is a good start. We can use the positive tags and pushes to drown out the negative ones. It also portrays us as a fandom, and Yuzu as a skater, as a normal, human being, not an inapproachable distant god-like entity (who could then be accused of arrogance since distance makes accusations easier). He and neutral fans can find these easily, and find some happiness and delight from it. 
• I think treating him as a human, respecting his privacy, other skaters' efforts etc is a step forward. Facts don't just work to help Yuzu, it can help figure skating as a whole. 
• Increasing knowledge of FS for new fans. This is why Max has my utmost respect, as does @kaerb and co's new podcast. We have strength in numbers, let's use it for good for promoting FS as a whole, which is something that I think Yuzu can get behind. 
• Facts, facts, facts that are skater neutral-while antis will deride it (as some went against Max's video), it persuades neutrals, and that is where the real battle is. Getting neutrals into appreciating FS as a whole, and Yuzu as a whole, is where the real battle is. 
• I also think @Toni that given Yuzu's hope that he can uplift the spirit of others, and inspire others, he would be quite fond of the children books that he inspires. Also, good luck with all the screenplays! Can't wait to see the movie adaptations!

 

Anyways, long post. Good luck with everything, and thank you for reporting (although how Twitter deals with it is not encouraging). I've always wondered if we should publicize who are antis so Yuzu fans who don't read Japanese, won't accidentally follow an anti? 

/standing ovation.

 

I'm just fervently nodding to everything you said but especially to your point about antis. I've seen some JP antis accounts myself, and the extent to which they twist, lie, cherry pick their way obsessively through his every action to find fault. Honestly the only thing I feel for them is pity that they have so much time to hate. The real battle is in winning over neutral people and new fans. Yuzu can win over plenty of people by being himself. As a fandom, we can help them stay and learn more about the sport and hopefully become valuable contributors to the fan culture through methods like being positive, welcoming, fair, informative about the sport in general and just generally acting in ways that Yuzu would be proud of. Helping people enjoy all that Yuzu has to offer through positivity, I think, is the best way to convey the joy he brings all of us and hopefully help them love him too (while of course trying our best to counteract antis and also keep a check on poor or 'bullying' behaviour in our own fandom that can make neutral people adverse to yuzu by association) 

[LadySnowblood]

This thread has been moving so quickly, but the main reason I hesitate to take any action or even comment re: Yuzuru's remarks on CiONTU is that he never said he wanted fans to do this. He expressed his appreciation for everyone's support and acknowledged the shared suffering due to haters. It was obviously emotional for him but the main point was that he was able to continue in spite of overwhelming negativity, thanks to the positive messages he received.

 

I also feel his words on Day 3 are off-limits until/unless he decides to explain precisely what he meant. Just transcribing to/from the same language can end up in literal nonsense, or simply fail if what came out of the person's mouth was the opposite of what they were trying to say, or parallel but still totally different. Translating into other languages confuses things even more.

 

Thinking of what he has actually said he wants people to do, seems to be a short list: Keep dreaming, keep trying, keep supporting him, stay strong.

 

[xeyra]

4 hours ago, Echuka said:

This is from Russian TV show “Ice Age.Kids”. The boy performes Yuzuru-style program. For those who did not catch the idea there is Japanese flag at the end 

 

https://youtu.be/hLkbb3uLO1Q

 

 

 

 

He actually reminds me a lot more of Shoma. 

[SparkleSalad]

Who likes bad puns?

 

 

[dorkyiceprince]

7 hours ago, Whee1000 said:

@dorkyiceprince Men sometimes do kyuudo with the left shoulder/chest exposed. Just saying.