General Yuzuru Chat

[Sombreuil]

6 minutes ago, Xen said:

But overall, the younger guys in their 2nd/3rd season seem artistically *behind* Yuzu when he was in his 2nd/3rd season in seniors level. At the very least that's my impression. 

Yes, you're right.  I suppose bringing in Lambiel to polish Shoma up a bit made me think of NA sending Yuzuru to Bestemianova and Bobrin - it brought some big improvements but not enough for him.  It would be good if the outside input gave Shoma a bit of fire.   But he doesn't seem to be self propelling as Yuzuru is - all this stuff about not knowing where the rink he's skating on is makes me think of Pratchetts shark - it has an easy schedule, eat, sleep,swim, repeat.  Just substitute skate for swim!  

 

[Katt]

17 minutes ago, Xen said:

Nah, I don't think Yuzu would end up that direction. From his interviews, it seems his musicality cannot be contained, it'll burst out sooner or later. Plus he's opinionated, and a bit OCD about how *he* wants to skate. This seems a bit different from Nate, Shoma and even Boyang-at the very least the latter 3 have not stated what their ideal in skating is, I think; with only Boyang so far saying he chose and insisted on his SP music. That ideal about transitions and difficulty was already in his mind from the time he was with Tuzuki (sp?) sensei. Plus you factor in that Nanami sensei is a choreographer too, and I don't think we'd be too far from now. Maybe a bit slower progress wise, but at some point arrive at the same place.

 

But overall, the younger guys in their 2nd/3rd season seem artistically *behind* Yuzu when he was in his 2nd/3rd season in seniors level. At the very least that's my impression. 

Its hard to say.  Yuzuru said that he didn't like some of music choice but he trusted Nanami-san so he skated to it anyway. And I think Yuzuru talks more about his ideal skating in recent years, especially after Seimei. I think its understandable for the youngster haven't found their ideal skating yet, they're young and have plenty time for it. As for me, I always love Yuzuru's skating but Seimei is his artistry breakthrough and I think most skaters need at least 1-2 iconic program to grow to the next level. 

 

There's only a few days before we know his layout. As @Floria said, we should keep in mind that's he back on full training around 4 weeks ago, and to get back quads and 3A in 2-3 week is truly impressive. This is olympic and he's back from injuries with one month training , for sure he won't do thing that isn't going well in practice

[KatjaThera]

26 minutes ago, Xen said:

Nah, I don't think Yuzu would end up that direction. From his interviews, it seems his musicality cannot be contained, it'll burst out sooner or later. Plus he's opinionated, and a bit OCD about how *he* wants to skate. This seems a bit different from Nate, Shoma and even Boyang-at the very least the latter 3 have not stated what their ideal in skating is, I think; with only Boyang so far saying he chose and insisted on his SP music. That ideal about transitions and difficulty was already in his mind from the time he was with Tuzuki (sp?) sensei. Plus you factor in that Nanami sensei is a choreographer too, and I don't think we'd be too far from now. Maybe a bit slower progress wise, but at some point arrive at the same place.

 

But overall, the younger guys in their 2nd/3rd season seem artistically *behind* Yuzu when he was in his 2nd/3rd season in seniors level. At the very least that's my impression. 

I’d like to think you’re right, but I’m not so sure. Yuzu has said he let Nanami-sensei pick his music. Maybe he did get veto rights, but I think I remember also something about finding it challenging to skate to whatever she chose. So it’s not very likely he did say no. Actually, he recently admitted that even in his first years in Canada he pretty much did what others told him. Also, he admitted that before moving to Canada he was mostly focused on jumps and rarely practiced skating and steps. I’m also not sure Nanami-sensei would have been able to help him with his stamina. (I think that worked at TCC because of their own experiences as skaters.)

 

I agree his musicality and possibly raw talent, combined with his ambition and ideals means he would be better anyway, I don’t think he would be at this level if he hadn’t moved. (Also, isn't Shoma's coach also choreographing most of his programs?)

[Xen]

10 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

I’d like to think you’re right, but I’m not so sure. Yuzu has said he let Nanami-sensei pick his music. Maybe he did get veto rights, but I think I remember also something about finding it challenging to skate to whatever she chose. So it’s not very likely he did say no. Actually, he recently admitted that even in his first years in Canada he pretty much did what others told him. Also, he admitted that before moving to Canada he was mostly focused on jumps and rarely practiced skating and steps. I’m also not sure Nanami-sensei would have been able to help him with his stamina. (I think that worked at TCC because of their own experiences as skaters.)

 

I agree his musicality and possibly raw talent, combined with his ambition and ideals means he would be better anyway, I don’t think he would be at this level if he hadn’t moved. (Also, isn't Shoma's coach also choreographing most of his programs?)

Well we may never know. Also, who chose R&J 1.0? I don't remember. 

The thing is, the reason why he followed, is it more due to his personality or more due to his age? He wasn't even 18 yet when he moved to TCC. And he started choosing his own music etc in TCC (seimei) a bit before age 20. But yes for skating skills and stamina-both of which are probably aided by the dedicated facilities and the lack of media pressure at TCC. 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

52 分, WinForPoohさんが言いました:

It is possible that Brian is casting doubt on the 4Lo because it sounds quite plausible (we're mostly believing it, aren't we), and it makes the idea of a clean Yuzu across two skates quite likely. That would prompt any gold contender with undecided layout to realise that they do absolutely need to go clean. It's the only way to beat a clean Yuzu who suddenly decides to stop being himself and reverts to his Sochi layout, or even his WC2012 one, or even leave out quads altogether. That might make them consider using a lower BV layout as their main plan, with anything else as backup. And then Yuzu might do the 4Lo anyway.

 

Possible. Is it likely that he's trying a kind of double bluff like that? I dunno, might depend on just how much the TCC erasure annoyed Brian, I suppose.

 

Fixed it for you. No need to thank me.

[Floria]

hace 4 minutos , Xen said:

Well we may never know. Also, who chose R&J 1.0? I don't remember. 

The thing is, the reason why he followed, is it more due to his personality or more due to his age? He wasn't even 18 yet when he moved to TCC. And he started choosing his own music etc in TCC (seimei) a bit before age 20. But yes for skating skills and stamina-both of which are probably aided by the dedicated facilities and the lack of media pressure at TCC. 

 

iirc he wanted to skate to Chopin and Jeff found Ballade No 1 for him. And POTO also was his decision. I guess after Sochi he always chose music for himself.

[KatjaThera]

4 minutes ago, Xen said:

Well we may never know. Also, who chose R&J 1.0? I don't remember. 

The thing is, the reason why he followed, is it more due to his personality or more due to his age? He wasn't even 18 yet when he moved to TCC. And he started choosing his own music etc in TCC (seimei) a bit before age 20. But yes for skating skills and stamina-both of which are probably aided by the dedicated facilities and the lack of media pressure at TCC. 

We'll probably never know for sure how he would have turned out. I think following was due to age and confidence and lack of experience. Maybe after another season Nanami-sensei would have told him to pick his own music. Maybe she would have put her foot down on other things as well. But this reminds me of something Brian said. He said he's not a coach who is good at teaching skaters from scratch. He's a coach who is good at building upon the foundation already laid by others before. Strengthening it and then building upon it. He said Javi and Yuzu were successes because they already had foundations. Skaters he started with more from scratch were not. I have no idea if that's accurate, but that's what he said. And so I wonder if Nanami-sensei might be someone who is good at laying down foundations - though to be fair, she, too, built upon things Yuzu had learned from others before - good at forming skaters when they're in the early stages of their career, but once they reach a certain level, there is a limit to how much she can help them. I have no idea how many Japanese coaches actually have competition experience? I believe Brian and Tracy's own competition experiences have helped them a lot in their coaching. They actually know what the skaters are going through. Brian was able to identify Yuzu's wasting energy issue and find a solution to it because he recognized himself in it. And I think that's what eventually improved his stamina. And I'm not sure anyone else would have found it - or found it as quickly as Brian - because that was based on Brian's own experience as a skater.

[Yuazz]

About yuzu moving to Toronto and join TCC. 

I also believe that his success now because he moved to Toronto and train under Brian's team. Here he said that he realized that he wouldn't be able to achieve the gold medal without moving on to Toronto. 

 

So, I was glad that he decided to leave Nanami (She's awesome coach!) and out from his comfort zone. Yuzu wouldn't be a Yuzuru Hanyu now without TCC. He worked with wonderful coaches and practice with talented skaters in Toronto. And he become a better skater than before. 

 

Eta.   Around 12:16

[xeyra]

4Lo is a difficult jump that wasn't behaving particularly well this season (possibly due to also adding 4Lz). It's a jump that does require some pressure on his right foot and the newest one (sans 4Lz) in his repertoire. While I'm sure he got his triples and 4T/4S swiftly, 4Lo might be a bit more troublesome and require more time for consistency. So when Brian left for Korea, it was still a question mark on that consistency and this week was basically required to up that percentage and see how it fit in both success rate and stamina. So I'm not sure if it's strategy that he's not yet sure about the final layout. It all depends on how Yuzu has done this week in practice and the next week, prior to the SP. It's possible he's also limited in the number of 4Los he can do per training session, as he was post-ACI, who knows. 

[micaelis]

4 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

It is possible that Brian is casting doubt on the 4Lo because it sounds quite plausible (we're mostly believing it, aren't we), and it makes the idea of a clean Yuzu across two skates quite likely. That would prompt any gold contender with undecided layout to realise that they do absolutely need to go clean. It's the only way to beat a clean Yuzu. That might make them consider using a lower BV layout as their main plan, with anything else as backup. And then Yuzu might do the 4Lo anyway.

I think if there is any dissimulation here it's playing on the fact that Yuzu back at the ACI with a 'dumbed down' short program still set a world record, emphasizing that Yuzu doesn't need the highest base-value to achieve his goal.  The fact is that all the potential challengers know what a truly inspired Yuzu can do.  After all, Javi, Shoma, Patrick and Boyang were all there at the GPF on the night of December 12, 2015, when Yuzu did a clean sweep, breaking the SP, FS, and combined records, records he'd set just two weeks before.  Only Nathan wasn't there but I'm sure he was probably watching it on TV.  That is why none of these potential medalists is worrying about how they compare to the other skaters. 

 

Yuzu is the elephant (hardly physically, of course) in the room, a presence who even in his absence was still dictating the season.  Everyone who was skating in a competition Yuzu would have been in were it not for his injury, knows that his victory has an asterisk by it, an asterisk that says that if Yuzu had been there things quite possibly could have been very different.  It boils down to this basic fact - Yuzu, even though he's been out of competition for nearly three months, is still the one to beat, is still the one who holds the title of Olympic gold-medalist, current World Champion, four times GPF winner and the only one who has set any scoring records since Sochi, usually by breaking records he himself had set.  I would also counsel any of these aspirants to Olympic gold to go back and watch Yuzu's FS at the 2014 GPF, a skate I consider to be his best and most intense, despite one fall late in the program.  He nearly broke the FS record but what should frighten these aspirants is the fact that only two weeks after Yuzu's meltdown at the NHK he was able to come back and not only win the GPF but win it by some 35 points.  There have been quite a few commentators who have noticed that Yuzu seems to do best when he is fighting his way to the top rather than defending from the top.  That definitely seems to be the case here.

[Floria]

Hace 14 horas, xeyra said:

4Lo is a difficult jump that wasn't behaving particularly well this season (possibly due to also adding 4Lz). It's a jump that does require some pressure on his ring foot and the newest one (sans 4Lz) in his repertoire. While I'm sure he got his triples and 4T/4S swiftly, 4Lo might be a bit more troublesome and require more time for consistency. So when Brian left for Korea, it was still a question mark on that consistency and this week was basically required to up that percentage and see how it fit in both success rate and stamina. So I'm not sure if it's strategy that he's not yet sure about the final layout. It all depends on how Yuzu has done this week in practice and the next week, prior to the SP. It's possible he's also limited in the number of 4Los he can do per training session, as he was post-ACI, who knows. 

The take-off for loop is entirely from the right foot, so I think they are taking into consideration the risk of a new injury and therefore limited practice time for it.

 

[Forcefield]

Going round in circles and back to sharing rooms at the Olys Village speculation:

I actually wonder if Hanyu will share with anyone? Shoma and Keiji are chummy and are even numbers. Same as the Japanese girls, and girls for dance and pairs, and guys for dance and pairs. Yea, it evens out with Hanyu as yet another anomaly. I think the team numbers for men and women this year were the same for Sochi. Perhaps Dai got a room to himself before Machida moved in and this round Hanyu might get a room to himself since he's going late as well, unless they have athletes from mixed sports sharing.

[Yolo3a]

Am I the only one happy with the Nathan hype? The least pressure on Yuzu, the better no? 

[Aotoshiro]

2 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

It is possible that Brian is casting doubt on the 4Lo because it sounds quite plausible (we're mostly believing it, aren't we), and it makes the idea of a clean Yuzu across two skates quite likely. That would prompt any gold contender with undecided layout to realise that they do absolutely need to go clean. It's the only way to beat a clean Yuzu. That might make them consider using a lower BV layout as their main plan, with anything else as backup. And then Yuzu might do the 4Lo anyway.

Possible. Is it likely that he's trying a kind of double bluff like that? I dunno, might depend on just how much the TCC erasure annoyed Brian, I suppose.

I love how we put so much meaning to this 'got irritated by US media' comment  It's like the ultimate Beware of The Nice Ones trope done in real life.

 

2 hours ago, KatjaThera said:

I’d like to think you’re right, but I’m not so sure. Yuzu has said he let Nanami-sensei pick his music. Maybe he did get veto rights, but I think I remember also something about finding it challenging to skate to whatever she chose. So it’s not very likely he did say no. Actually, he recently admitted that even in his first years in Canada he pretty much did what others told him. Also, he admitted that before moving to Canada he was mostly focused on jumps and rarely practiced skating and steps. I’m also not sure Nanami-sensei would have been able to help him with his stamina. (I think that worked at TCC because of their own experiences as skaters.)

 

I agree his musicality and possibly raw talent, combined with his ambition and ideals means he would be better anyway, I don’t think he would be at this level if he hadn’t moved. (Also, isn't Shoma's coach also choreographing most of his programs?)

If that was true, we wouldn't get David Wilson complainign about Yuzu wanting to skate to POTO in his first year, and melting over the letter asking to choreograph R&J2. Also, there is a difference between 'doing what you were told to" and "Doing what you were told to and adding a bit if Extra from yourself" which I believe is also what Yuzu has said about his first years. As to Nanami, and finding it challenging to skate to that music, it was actually pointed that a lot of young skaters have to be directed in their music choices, because they're influenced by the outside (I think there was an article where coach complained that all of his Junior females wanted to skate to Frozen after movie release), and branching out even in the directions that might not be comfortable for a skater is also part of the development. Also, there is that one interview, I think after Sochi, where he said that while now he is recognized as a jumper, when he was younger that was the element he sucked at the most and everybody recognized him for his spins. So, while it's possible he did focus on jumps before coming to Canada, it might be just because he wanted to power through his weakest point (Yuzu Style!) and his atypical flexibility and spin positions covered enough points in 6.0 system for him to not worry about steps.

 

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Well we may never know. Also, who chose R&J 1.0? I don't remember. 

The thing is, the reason why he followed, is it more due to his personality or more due to his age? He wasn't even 18 yet when he moved to TCC. And he started choosing his own music etc in TCC (seimei) a bit before age 20. But yes for skating skills and stamina-both of which are probably aided by the dedicated facilities and the lack of media pressure at TCC. 

Wasn't both R&J2 and POTO both his first choices too? Also R&J1 was a choice by Abe-coach, but he agreed on it after listening to it, even though he still didn't quite catch the concept of love (he went to watch that film specifically to check if he can understand it, lol, this nerd)

 

[ralucutzagy]

17 minutes ago, Forcefield said:

Going round in circles and back to sharing rooms at the Olys Village speculation:

I actually wonder if Hanyu will share with anyone? Shoma and Keiji are chummy and are even numbers. Same as the Japanese girls, and girls for dance and pairs, and guys for dance and pairs. Yea, it evens out with Hanyu as yet another anomaly. I think the team numbers for men and women this year were the same for Sochi. Perhaps Dai got a room to himself before Machida moved in and this round Hanyu might get a room to himself since he's going late as well, unless they have athletes from mixed sports sharing.

Tbh, I don't think he will stay in the Olys Village ... at Sochi he stayed at a hotel iirc ...