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Gkelly replied me on FSuniverse, I will just quote her words here:

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This is a little complicated, and the rules have changed somewhat from year to year. I don't think this is an actual rule change, but a (partial) clarification from what the situation was last year.

 

To the best of my knowledge/recollection:

 

A number of years ago, there used to be errors that had GOE reductions of -1 to -2 but the final GOE was not required to be negative, other errors with -2 or -3 reductions that required negative GOE, and only two kinds that required the final GOE had to be -3 regardless of the quality of the element:

SP jump with one or more revolution less than required, and SP combination of one jump only

 

So for a double jump where triple was required, or single (usually axel) where at least double was required, the final GOE had to be -3 -- not just negative, but -3 specifically

 

In freeskates, there are no requirements about jump rotations, so double and single jumps could and still can get any GOE up to +3 there.

 

More recently the middle kind of reduction no longer has to result in negative final (although if the reduction is -3, the final GOE can't be more than 0).

 

Also, a year or two ago the rule changed so that jumps with fewer than required rotations in the short program get no points. Thus the GOE for a solo single axel, solo single jump out of steps, or solo double out of steps at senior level is moot because the whole element now gets no points at all.

 

For SP jump combinations, for a double-double or single-double combination the skater can still get points for the double jump (or the one with the higher base value if there are two), because one double is allowed in the combination. But if the other jump is required to be at least triple, then a single or second double gets no value.

 

And the final GOE must be -3.

 

But the way this was worded in the GOE guidelines last year was confusing: IIRC it said the only required -3 GOE was for a SP jump combination with only one jump.

 

What this really meant was that the GOE for the SP jump combination had to be -3 if there was only one jump that counted. So in a triple-single or double-double combination, the skater does get base value for the higher value jump, but none for the other jump that is not according to requirements, and for this error the final GOE must be -3.

 

This new wording seems to be an attempt to clarify that the jump combination must get -3 regardless of whether the second jump is nonexistent or whether one of the jumps has too few revolutions. One jump of the intended combo does get points, so the element does get GOE (and that GOE must be -3, as has always been the case for this kind of error in the short program).

 

It's still not entirely clear, though.

 

I suppose the wording as it now stands would also mean that the GOE for a quad in a junior or senior ladies' short program would require -3 GOE because the requirements for those short programs don't allow for quads. But I don't think we have to worry about that -- hopefully any ladies trying quads will be smart enough to save them for the freeskate unless the SP rules change in future years.

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Thanks, meoima. So my understanding is that this applies to the combo jumps and any errors in a combo that may lead to an invalidated jump have to automatically get -3 GOE applied to it. So if you do a double-double in a men's senior SP, you have to get -3 GOE applied to it, because it would have had to be a triple-double or quad-double (or the other way around) for it to be a valid combo, correct?

 

Edit: Single non-combo jumps will still be marked as invalid (0).

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Just to relax everyone around here: this rule will have no bearing on Yuzuru. No judge is going to suddenly start adding -3 to a spread-eagle sandwich quad if it is otherwise a good quad just because he has done it before. No need to panic there.

yes of course. giving -3 to a clean jump is just impossibly ridiculous. i was just worried of him not checking that bullet. but even if he dont, he'll check other bullets and still get enough lol. it's yuzu after all, he'll get by some way.

 

thanks meoima, i was a bit confused about that 'jumps that do not satisfy the requirements' because i thought i read 'a wrong number of revolutions' as in popped jump, included in that but thank god it's not.

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Thanks, meoima. So my understanding is that this applies to the combo jumps and any errors in a combo that may lead to an invalidated jump have to automatically get -3 GOE applied to it. So if you do a double-double in a men's senior SP, you have to get -3 GOE applied to it, because it would have had to be a triple-double or quad-double (or the other way around) for it to be a valid combo, correct?

 

Edit: Single non-combo jumps will still be marked as invalid (0).

 

There's no possible way for a single invalided jump to get anything other than 0, whereas in a combo, if the first jump is valid then there will be a goe applied.

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ShiroKJ said:
xeyra said:
Thanks, meoima. So my understanding is that this applies to the combo jumps and any errors in a combo that may lead to an invalidated jump have to automatically get -3 GOE applied to it. So if you do a double-double in a men's senior SP, you have to get -3 GOE applied to it, because it would have had to be a triple-double or quad-double (or the other way around) for it to be a valid combo, correct?

 

Edit: Single non-combo jumps will still be marked as invalid (0).

 

There's no possible way for a single invalided jump to get anything other than 0, whereas in a combo, if the first jump is valid then there will be a goe applied.

Yep.

 

I honestly thought combo errors were already deducted -3 automatically, so I guess nothing changes here, they just tried to clarify the wording on their previous rule for this. I initially did think they were going to start taking out GOE on the invalidated 0 jumps too, but I guess this is why I should re-read things in english more than once.

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this could initially be for this. So people who do quad solo but no difficult steps wont be given -2 (and for some reason we could already see last season). But this could also be twisted to "doing difficult steps but somehow deemed not 'interesting' or 'creative' by some judges could receive lower GOE or at least not get the bullet checked". I know this sounds ridiculous. But they can get away with it. Just like a judge get away with giving yuzu's clean 3A out-of-nowhere a 0 GOE at 4cc this year. Especially to people who always comments on how yuzu's arms are not 'balletic' enough :roll: and skaters who just did crossovers but have 'beautiful upper body movement' have more chances on getting max goe.

 

i sure hope judges not giving him more GOE on his world FS was only because they didnt like the music. sorry for being pessimistic but i'm just so upset right now

Yup, ISU served up a big fudge sundae. Fudge it up; fudge it down :s_hang :s_devil

 

I've always found it ridiculous when people suggest he should be getting lower GOE's for transitions in and out of jumps he's mastered for a while (that still no one else can do) (so by definition it's his SIGNATURE). Judges who find it "not interesting" for Yuzu but "interesting" for someone else... need to be pelted with pooh-san (but maybe pooh-san doesn't deserve this treatment :sadPooh:)!

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this could initially be for this. So people who do quad solo but no difficult steps wont be given -2 (and for some reason we could already see last season). But this could also be twisted to "doing difficult steps but somehow deemed not 'interesting' or 'creative' by some judges could receive lower GOE or at least not get the bullet checked". I know this sounds ridiculous. But they can get away with it. Just like a judge get away with giving yuzu's clean 3A out-of-nowhere a 0 GOE at 4cc this year. Especially to people who always comments on how yuzu's arms are not 'balletic' enough :roll: and skaters who just did crossovers but have 'beautiful upper body movement' have more chances on getting max goe.

 

i sure hope judges not giving him more GOE on his world FS was only because they didnt like the music. sorry for being pessimistic but i'm just so upset right now

Yup, ISU served up a big fudge sundae. Fudge it up; fudge it down :s_hang :s_devil

 

I've always found it ridiculous when people suggest he should be getting lower GOE's for transitions in and out of jumps he's mastered for a while (that still no one else can do) (so by definition it's his SIGNATURE). Judges who find it "not interesting" for Yuzu but "interesting" for someone else... need to be pelted with pooh-san (but maybe pooh-san doesn't deserve this treatment :sadPooh:)!

pelted with pooh

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Two weeks ago, Yuzuru fans from around the globe released a

. This video now have subs in 9 languages: Chinese (Simplified), Chinese (Traditional), Italian, Japanese, Polish, Russian, Spanish, Turkish and Vietnamese!

 

The team has received a lot of positive feedback from fans all over the world, and by popular request, we would like to present this video as a token of thank you. Here is the same performance in slow-motion (0.6x) with footwork, transitions, and elements annotated – and a couple improvements made in the step sequence from suggestions we received :yay: Enjoy :pbow:

 

(For those in Japan, please watch on mii-san’s niconico channel: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31195583. Thank you, mii-san!)

 

 

And here are some lovely comments about the video that the team has received from fans around the world :’) Thanks everyone for supporting us, and thanks Yuzu for bringing us all together!

 

tumblr_inline_opsrno99dH1ue4po9_540.jpg

tumblr_inline_opsrou9Pjj1ue4po9_540.jpg

tumblr_inline_opsrp6XiYS1ue4po9_540.jpg

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Just to relax everyone around here: this rule will have no bearing on Yuzuru. No judge is going to suddenly start adding -3 to a spread-eagle sandwich quad if it is otherwise a good quad just because he has done it before. No need to panic there.

yes of course. giving -3 to a clean jump is just impossibly ridiculous. i was just worried of him not checking that bullet. but even if he dont, he'll check other bullets and still get enough lol. it's yuzu after all, he'll get by some way.

This reminds me:

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry

2) clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of

the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element

 

So.... what's the difference between these now for the SP?

Err, actually, what was the difference between them before too (only for SP)...

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Two weeks ago, Yuzuru fans from around the globe released a
. This video now have subs in 9 languages: Chinese (Simplified), Chinese (Traditional), Italian, Japanese, Polish, Russian, Spanish, Turkish and Vietnamese!

 

The team has received a lot of positive feedback from fans all over the world, and by popular request, we would like to present this video as a token of thank you. Here is the same performance in slow-motion (0.6x) with footwork, transitions, and elements annotated – and a couple improvements made in the step sequence from suggestions we received :yay: Enjoy :pbow:

 

(For those in Japan, please watch on mii-san’s niconico channel: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31195583. Thank you, mii-san!)

 

Thank you so much! :bow: :bow: :bow:

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Just to relax everyone around here: this rule will have no bearing on Yuzuru. No judge is going to suddenly start adding -3 to a spread-eagle sandwich quad if it is otherwise a good quad just because he has done it before. No need to panic there.

yes of course. giving -3 to a clean jump is just impossibly ridiculous. i was just worried of him not checking that bullet. but even if he dont, he'll check other bullets and still get enough lol. it's yuzu after all, he'll get by some way.

This reminds me:

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry

2) clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of

the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element

 

So.... what's the difference between these now for the SP?

Err, actually, what was the difference between them before too (only for SP)...

wait you're right. the requirements now only applies for the -2 GOE for not including it before *facepalm* i should have read this more carefully lmao anyway this only means no more -2 for not including difficult steps so it would really have no effect on yuzu :rofl2: i cant believe i got so worked up for this :rofl2:

 

edit: to answer your question, it used be 'clear recognizable (difficult for jump preceded by steps/movements of the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element

see here: http://static.isu.org/media/1003/2000-sptc-sov-and-goe-2016-2017_revised-july-14.pdf

anyway after much thinking i think it shouldnt affect yuzu much

 

edit2: wait it's still there! now i'm more confused... it's like 2 AM here i cant think i need to sleep

FJDoUDo.jpg

 

edit3: Alia and team, thank you so much for that video :bow: :goe:

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I'm just in love with the H&L slow mo version, this is simply beautiful :goe:

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Two weeks ago, Yuzuru fans from around the globe released a
. This video now have subs in 9 languages: Chinese (Simplified), Chinese (Traditional), Italian, Japanese, Polish, Russian, Spanish, Turkish and Vietnamese!

 

The team has received a lot of positive feedback from fans all over the world, and by popular request, we would like to present this video as a token of thank you. Here is the same performance in slow-motion (0.6x) with footwork, transitions, and elements annotated – and a couple improvements made in the step sequence from suggestions we received :yay: Enjoy :pbow:

 

(For those in Japan, please watch on mii-san’s niconico channel: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm31195583. Thank you, mii-san!)

 

 

And here are some lovely comments about the video that the team has received from fans around the world :’) Thanks everyone for supporting us, and thanks Yuzu for bringing us all together!

 

tumblr_inline_opsrno99dH1ue4po9_540.jpg

tumblr_inline_opsrou9Pjj1ue4po9_540.jpg

tumblr_inline_opsrp6XiYS1ue4po9_540.jpg

Thank you so much!! :goe: :goe: slow motion just made it clear that Yuzu's performance matched the music perfectly! :bow:

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This reminds me:

1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry

2) clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of

the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element

 

So.... what's the difference between these now for the SP?

Err, actually, what was the difference between them before too (only for SP)...

wait you're right. the requirements now only applies for the -2 GOE for not including it before *facepalm* i should have read this more carefully lmao anyway this only means no more -2 for not including difficult steps so it would really have no effect on yuzu :rofl2: i cant believe i got so worked up for this :rofl2:

 

edit: to answer your question, it used be 'clear recognizable (difficult for jump preceded by steps/movements of the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element

see here: http://static.isu.org/media/1003/2000-sptc-sov-and-goe-2016-2017_revised-july-14.pdf

anyway after much thinking i think it shouldnt affect yuzu much

Actually, I was thinking more of what makes bullet 1 and bullet 2 in the SP any different from each other, now?

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