General Yuzuru Chat

[ralucutzagy]

 

 

[yuzupon]

Regarding prerotation might cause injury.

 

I remember Tracy used to say, back when Yuna Kim tended to fall on her 3F ocassionally, mostly during competition practices, that Yuna tended to pre-rotate her upper body when jumping flip, and that's why she fell on it. Now, when I heard she said that, it was usually right before Yuna jumped the Flip in actual competitions and nailed it. And back then, I did not have the knowledge to even tell jumps apart, so I never look closely into it. But, as Yuna is not known for prerotating, I am guessing it is precisely because and when she didn't prerotate that she could land her flips in competitions.

So, that's a coach identifying PRing as a cause of a fall, which if happens repeatedly tend to cause injury. Indirect, but still affecting.

 

And I am always under the impression that the correct techniques are called correct, not only bcz they produce beautiful jumps, but also bcz they are the way to do the jumps properly, i.e. only when adhering to those techniques can you actually do the jumps with minimal, if not no, risk of injuring yourself. 

Skaters who possess proper techniques, like Yuzu, get injured when, as they are training to achieve those proper techniques, they were not doing some of them properly quite yet.

 

I know that sounds paradoxical, but idk, that's my understanding anyway. 

[TallyT]

3 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

Oy this is like out of a manga or something, the fact that she wears the same exact outfit each time too...

 

 

That's what I thought, it's like something out of a really creepy movie... but it appears the people around him block any way she can get too close. They are aware, that's crystal clear.

 

But poor Yuzu...

[WinForPooh]

Bit late for this one but about TSL: I wouldn't have much of a problem if they were seen as what they are, the juicy tabloid show of the skating world. Instead they're seen as some kind of authority on quality and tech, mostly because of their name when people first get into the sport and start looking for information. Call them The Skating Scoop or something and I wouldn't care much. The Skating Lesson sounds like what they say is objective facts like lessons.

 

I still wouldn't like them but at least they'd be on brand for what they are then. Now it's misleading until you really understand quite a bit about the sport.

[caterpillar]

1 hour ago, yuzupon said:

Regarding prerotation might cause injury.

 

I remember Tracy used to say, back when Yuna Kim tended to fall on her 3F ocassionally, mostly during competition practices, that Yuna tended to pre-rotate her upper body when jumping flip, and that's why she fell on it. Now, when I heard she said that, it was usually right before Yuna jumped the Flip in actual competitions and nailed it. And back then, I did not have the knowledge to even tell jumps apart, so I never look closely into it. But, as Yuna is not known for prerotating, I am guessing it is precisely because and when she didn't prerotate that she could land her flips in competitions.

So, that's a coach identifying PRing as a cause of a fall, which if happens repeatedly tend to cause injury. Indirect, but still affecting.

 

And I am always under the impression that the correct techniques are called correct, not only bcz they produce beautiful jumps, but also bcz they are the way to do the jumps properly, i.e. only when adhering to those techniques can you actually do the jumps with minimal, if not no, risk of injuring yourself. 

Skaters who possess proper techniques, like Yuzu, get injured when, as they are training to achieve those proper techniques, they were not doing some of them properly quite yet.

 

I know that sounds paradoxical, but idk, that's my understanding anyway. 

 

I don’t really think this has been studied enough to decisively determine what technique causes more injuries. I’m all for correct technique, but I actually think it has developed based around what’s most beautiful rather than what’s safest. Plainly harmful/dangerous techniques have of course been disallowed/not gained popularity in the first place, but prerotation isn’t that kind of issue. The long term effect on hips and joints isn’t something that really becomes relevant until you’re jumping triples and quads, and the correct techniques were established before that. And while I do think that pre-rotation is more linked to under-rotation, so is delay in rotation, which is basically the opposite, and I haven’t seen anyone argue that that should result in a deduction. 

 

Additionally, I think it’s hard to say more generally which kind of technique is more difficult, since it probably varies from skater to skater based on personal preference and what kind of basic technique they’ve been taught. Yuzu finds it harder to jump a lutz with pre-rotation than without, but I think Shoma would say the opposite about the 4F. I have a few friends who are doing or used to do figure skating (they’re all from the same rink, so this is basically the worst sample size), and they all learnt their flips and lutzes by starting from the loop and adjusting the toe from there. So I think in some parts of the world there is a notion that the pre-rotated version (often more loop-like) is easier at least as a starting point, but this is far from a general consensus. 

 

What I think it comes down to is that these six kinds of jumps have specific textbook techniques, and jumping differently means that you haven’t been able to master one of these techniques. That sounds a bit harsh, but going back to the loop-method of learning harder toe jumps: of the people I know who learnt that way, one has a very clean toepick and minimal prerotation for the lutz and flip, while the others don’t. Clearly, she mastered the transition from loop to toe jump much better than the others, so I feel it’s fair to reward her higher than the people who are basically still using loop-technique on lutz jumps. This is basically what Ambesi was talking about at the Olympics, and someone linked to a thread on twitter earlier talking about how a pre-rotated lutz actually doesn’t have the characteristic lutz ice mark, making it more similar to a flutz than anything else. Taking the very obvious example of the toe axel: I have no idea if it’s harmful for the skaters, and while it’s easier to do for the skaters who have this technique issue, I actually think a lot of skaters with proper toe loops would struggle with it. Still, it’s not a toe loop, and the skater is deducted for it because they haven’t mastered (or aren’t displaying that they have mastered) the proper technique. Properly being able to master the very different techniques for the different jumps is hard, and that’s why variety is rewarded. I don’t know if pre-rotation on it’s own is harder or easier, but never learning lutz technique and instead relying on flip/loop technique with different decoration, shouldn’t earn you points for a lutz. 

 

That being said, I am in no way a professional. This is just my understanding. 

[Bilge]

 

 

[andchipzz]

1 hour ago, WinForPooh said:

Bit late for this one but about TSL: I wouldn't have much of a problem if they were seen as what they are, the juicy tabloid show of the skating world. Instead they're seen as some kind of authority on quality and tech, mostly because of their name when people first get into the sport and start looking for information. Call them The Skating Scoop or something and I wouldn't care much. The Skating Lesson sounds like what they say is objective facts like lessons.

 

I still wouldn't like them but at least they'd be on brand for what they are then. Now it's misleading until you really understand quite a bit about the sport.

I dont know how some people get mistaken? It is very obvious by the way they talk 30 minutes about everything else except skating lessons.

[Veveco]

 

[andchipzz]

Guys, are there no translation for Russian and Chinese commentary on Skate Canada?

[Bilge]

Pleaseee this is so sweet 

 

 

 

 

[Veveco]

I spy some satellites (and our banners from ACI) on this picture 

 

 

[ralucutzagy]

 

 

[ralucutzagy]

 

hmmmmmm

[Henni147]

21 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

 

 

 

This is the correct link to Yuzu's interview btw. (@olympicchannel linked Sasha's interview instead of Yuzu's by mistake)

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/video/detail/exclusive-hanyu-things-coming-together/

[shanshani]

44 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

 

hmmmmmm

so dumb. both should be negative because of bad air position leading to obvious landing error, but Yuzu's should be higher because of harder entry and exit and less prep time. 

 

it's as though Yuzu deliberately made the same mistake to show the difference in scoring. I mean obviously he didn't but it's an informative coincidence