hoodie axel

I hope he doesn't keep Otonal (well, either program). It was the weaker of his two programs this season.

In your opinion! Just for singles', if we include 6.0, I think the best ever choreographer is Sandra Bezic, and Lori Nichol is easily second. If not, it becomes interesting, since I think Lori Nichol is first, and David Wilson second Will add links to argue later, but what's your opinion?

Wait where is this coming from?

All this talk about how people look... has anyone else ever felt just how strange-looking humans are? Try to just look at someone from the waist down when they're walking. Can't unsee.

2012 nationals!

Both. I can acknowledge it's a sport and staying in a zone that allows simplifies a win for you is a valid strategy. It's not a challenge however, which I think is a superseding aspect of sport. It's a criticism of most ladies' skating in terms of PCS, though.

True in a way, but if you consider that none of the SPs have been particularly good to this type of music for her... I don't know why they wouldn't try something fresh, since that seemed like one of the reasons she switched coaches, but oh well.

I've left most hope at the door with the ladies tbh, hence my at most announcements. Men are slightly more personal and creative at least.

I don't see anyone doing a good enough job on that song for Medvedeva's talents. Might be a bad fit, but we will see. And one (me, always me) can hope for fresh talent anyway.

But why?

Well, I hope Brown's had his fill of that catch phrase.

IIRC, there was Olympic Channel that streamed it before PC. Maybe someone who can access that still with subscription or something can stream it.

Well, tbh, if we really want to go for "no trade-offs" definition for a masterful jump, then, well, I think there are zero jumps that have ever deserved perfect GOE. I can respect the approach, but I can find something to nitpick usually. I don't think that's where we should end up. Well let's make it absurd to give that argument a chance. Suppose currently you were taking an average of the five components and giving people just PCS out of 10, when they were getting 100+ TES. (Unless you're saying why an argument someone somewhere else made to justify inflation, then lol agreed it was a stupid argument. But TES and PCS do need to be in somewhat of a balance) (ETA: I might just not get what you're saying here, anyway. Maybe you don't mean "why PCS refactoring should be done as TES achieved increases" which is how I took it)

I actually didn't read the article Why would anyone say that about a teenager?

Well, certainly not Sochi men at any rate.

Fair.

I guess "ideally" there will always be one jump everyone does transitions into in the LP. Well, everyone in the top 6 except one guy (Zhou) did, IIRC. It seems like a matter of principle to preserve program content. I do agree dinging skaters on TR is good if there aren't any. But there are also difficult entries into spins, out of jumps etc. I do still question what is "harder" though -- because between doing some meh steps in, or maintaining strong flow in, the latter would be harder to control certainly, and it would help with overall PCS too because strong flow is still more desirable than meh steps (and I'd rather also see big jumps without steps in than small jumps with difficult steps in), and necessitating things like this might not help. But there's an undeniable hierarchy there anyway.

Well, I mean, I obviously want PCS evaluated properly. I am not sure if I WANT to ensure creative entries into a minimum number of jumps, but I do agree that TR should take a hit if there aren't any transitions, and that's a different debate anyway. Just that, well, we need a cut-off for GOE evaluation somewhere while making rules, because then one could say "here's a Yuzuru Hanyu back counter 3A + a rippon" and then that's even more worthy of a +5, so why end at steps in...? And what's stopping someone else from saying "Rippons to jumps are what show real mastery"? So leave a +5 possible for perfect classic executions of jumps (it IS after all extremely rare, and have beauty of their own, and show mastery of this basic technique), but make sure you can still get +5s even in other ways, because there's hardly anyone who has shown such perfect executions. Also, I disagree with steps in being a criteria anyway. Difficult entries (and exits) is what should be asked for. (EDIT: Also I'm not asking it to be taken out of GOE entirely! The bullet is still up for grabs, just not necessary to get +5s, asuming there are enough of other qualities. And I really am thinking of Kolyada-level 4Lz executions here. It's not easy to jump a perfect classic jump even with no steps in after all, assuming you still maintain good speed and control in, so not like Chen would be getting +5s if he ever jumped a 4Lz as high as that) I do agree steps into jumps for SPs should remain, though. (although even then, you got extra GOE credit only if the entry was difficult/creative, not simply for existing)

So she already left Plushy but it is unknown if Panova will take her in or not?

Well for the steps part, I don't think there should be nothing in lieu of steps. Strong flow and great speed needs control and shows skill, and would make the succeeding element hard to control. Not everyone can move into an element with the same speed that Kim carried and make it successful. ETA: Also, IMO, we must consider "what-ifs" and slippery slopes that come along with it. You already are selecting an arbitrary line of termination for +5 GOE with steps beforehand being "necessary" in a way to get there, saying something extra is needed beyond classic jumps to set it apart. But, well, then there rises the question of what would happen if a person can replicate your example of +5 GOE jump, and adds a rippon to it? That now gets equated with a "lower" quality jump with "just" steps before an outstanding jump. So, to me, an outstanding demonstration of classic jump quality is enough to get +5, especially because such a demonstration already is very rare and to me it seems extremely hard already to produce such a jump given how few have done it. Not to mention, we already see jumps that get a little less vault (Yuzuru gets a little less height on his back counter 3A than a no steps entry by Yagudin into it, for instance), a little too tilted in the air, removing a bit of classic quality in order to get steps in, or a tano out. Seems to me that extraneous qualities such as these can lower the inherent qualities of jump technique which might be harder to produce, but also, what I essentially want to say is "perhaps you can't get outstanding height, but you can compensate for that by adding a rippon". It is a matter of what the skaters choose to do, since best at everything at the same time isn't at all possible. Just a matter of where to terminate, and what is harder, IMO.

Yeah I noticed that too. So moving champions to the West isn't enough in itself, color must be erased, too.

Good competitive performances, not particularly fantastic skating performances. Objectively, though, Turin had better programs and performances from all the top singles skaters in men's and ladies'. We had Cohen, Slutskaya, and Arakawa all delivering good programs (and Cohen had outstanding programs, in fact), plus Slutskaya's basic jump technique blows practically everyone away in the current field, as do Arakawa and Cohen's spirals, and also Cohen's spins and Arakawa's basic skating. For men, Plushy showed excellent jumping and great performance ability to win, Lambiel had great programs, Savoie had an excellent LP, Weir had a set of outstanding programs (so that leaves Buttle, who I think shouldn't have been on the podium, and Lysacek, whom I don't consider a top skater). Actually, why not Turin men's and ladies'? Wasn't everyone excited about Yuzuru's "origin" being there, and how him not retiring would mean he might skate at Torino GPF?

They had great performances.

I don't see why steps should be necessary for getting more GOE. A giant jump with no steps before or after it that still shows purity of technique, strong flow in and out, is definitely a benchmark. Or at the very least, I guess the flow itself I'd consider steps in and out, especially compared to tentative stalking, because it takes control of the edges and would make the jump harder due to speed after all. I'm very specifically looking at Yuna Kim's 3-3 combos (and some other jumps, like Boyang and his 4Lz, Kolyada and HIS 4Lz, something like Yagudin's 3A, lots of Ito's although she did lots of transitions anyway) here. They simply don't need steps to be amazing, because there are other qualities that are above and beyond. I'm not a fan of "this much is needed to get past +3". I think there should simply be ways to get to the maximum via different qualities. In a way, that's what sport is about, too. I would probably differentiate between entries as difficult vs extremely difficult (Yuzuru's back counter vs ina bauer back counter, for instance). For the exit, pure landing edge (Michelle Kwan's 2A) and difficult exit is a point (well, Michelle Kwan's 2A again). Pure air position and landing position are also desirable qualities (lots of examples! But let's go with Mao for this one). Not finishing rotation on the ice (ie, landing a jump that is already fully rotated, rather than a barely rotated one) also shows good technique (pick a jumper known to be a good jumper, any one. Let's go with Browning!). A lot of these are even related to each other, tbh. I don't necessarily think that take off in itself should be considered again for GOE. It's already (ideally) accounted for in BV, and the point about picking in already figures in with practically all goe bullets (air position, vault for instance). Lack of rotation can be part of negative bullets, too. Other than that, I shouldn't be shocked that someone on the internet has been able to come up with ideas better than the ISU has been able to in 15 years.