2018/19 Coaching changes

[EisElle]

1 hour ago, valkyrie said:

 

my gut reaction is to find a lot of the things he says about his relationship with yuzu odd too, but i try to remember that we only get brief glimpses of what's going on, and even then we don't really know. it's not really brian's fault if yuzu is introverted and doesn't want to talk about his personal life, especially in english. and anyway, yuzu is obviously content enough with how they do things to have stayed all these years.

that's what matters the most for me. As long as Yuzu thinks whatever relationship he has with his coaches works fine for him and his goals, it's ok, even if somewhere in the depth of my mind I wonder and wonder. My innate reaction is always to be protective of Yuzuru, but I'm trying to be optimist and to trust Yuzuru. I also trust Brian has learned from both his split with Yuna and from his ups and downs with Yuzu. Probably if Boston had not happened (medals aside, all that was going on behind the scene) there would be much less worry now, but it happended and we know that 1) Yuzu had the tendency to keep things for himself and keep them boiling inside 2) the coaches weren't always able to understand that he was indeed hiding things. I try to remember there was also Helsinki, tho, and then PyeongChang and there the team worked amazingly well, better than anyone could have expected or dreamed, so I will wait and shove that nagging voice in my head somewhere deep for now...

52 minutes ago, k8y said:

 

A million times both of these reactions. I understand Brian has different relationships with Javi and Yuzu because they are different people and have different needs etc. But I'm not sure how many times I can use that as an excuse for the lack of warmth and weirdness in Brian's comments about Yuzu over the years. They've been together 6 years, have gone through many things, but the only thing you ever hear from Brian is that Yuzu is private, polite, lives with his mother, works hard, and shouldn't be underestimated. Someone should interview me because I know all of these things too, from my couch. I try to think, well maybe that's all Yuzu wants Brian to say about him, and that's okay too. But the flip remark in that article, especially in light of how Brian has made his consulting Javi to be part of the story of Yuzu coming to TCC, annoys the heck out of me. And I'm writing this because there are always people on this forum who are more measured and knowledgeable than I am so I'm hoping you guys can calm me down a little. 

sorry, can't help you there, I need reasonable satellites too usually I need a very conscious effort not to go full-blown hyper-protective sister mode so me writing reasonable things is me trying to persuade myself to be reasonable

I do feel somehow Brian's relationship with Yuzu is different.

I'm sure he admires him a lot as a skater (after all, he called him the greatest,  and even if he was just PR talk he still said that only about Yuzu, and even in Javi's documentary he said Yuzu floats on the ice).

But on a personal level, even if Brian has said that for him both Javi and Yuzu are like sons, I feel there is a difference in affection. Maybe because he had Javi for longer, maybe because Javi was alone and needed Brian more on a personal level other than as a coach, or that simply he can get to talk more with him and about "normal" stuff, but I feel there is an... unbalance, if you want. And it's fine, as long as he does his job as a coach and in PC he did that and none could have asked for more. But I'm also extremely biased towards Yuzu and maybe I'm just overanalysing things and reading more than there is, so if for Yuzuru it's ok don't worry too much about Brian not caring for him as much as for Javi on a personal level. also re: Brian stating many times he asked Javi if he was fine with Yuzu coming to TCC, it could be because 1)his knowledge of Javi's past issues under Morozov, imo quite likely as they are indeed so close that invites Javi at his lake house, and 2)maybe a conscious or unconscious way to make Javi more relevant, as he's aware Spain doesn't care that much about FS while Japan does, so it's like taking a bit of Yuzu's popularity to lift Javi up a bit (you can also see how in almost every interview about Yuzu he talks about Javi too, to counterbalance how everyone always want to know about Yuzu, even when talking to Javi) It's sad that this would be needed, but that's the reality of the sport being unpopular in certain countries and popular in others.

And also remember that Yuzuru also has Tracy and Ghislain there (and he credited them for their help in the period after Boston), so even if Brian sometimes makes weird comments there's that too.  iirc in her TSL(?) inteview Tracy talked about how Yuzu would laugh often, and that struck me a lot because it was maybe the first time I had my image of Yuzu being a shy and quiet guy dispelled, when I still hadn't learned a lot about his character. It was a revelation for me. If only Brian could made a similar comment now and then, instead of the same old sentence we know by heart by now!

 

Anyway, who wonders how long it will take for Boyang's english to get better than Yuzu's? LOL

If Yuzu had the same interest for English as he has for earphones, Axel and maths he would likely sound like a native-english speaker by now But he improved a lot, if you consider he uses english only at the rink,  and probably he doesn't even watch english channels...

 

ETA: wow not one but a whole bunch of people have beaten me at the same reply

[micaelis]

I am simply flying on speculation here, but in defense of Brian it might be that he knew, before the fact, that Yuzu could handle the new arrivals and  that Yuzu would go along with these developments.  When Brian asked Javi he did so because he might not have been sure how Javi might react.  Javi hadn't been with Brian all that long, remember, certainly not the many years that Yuzu has been with Brian at this time and although there is much in Yuzu that Brian finds inexplicable he knew that Yuzu could handle this development. 

 

As far as Brian's frequent seeming coldness when speaking about Yuzu, I think quite simply Brian finds himself overawed by the Yuzuru Hanyu phenomenon.  There is no way when he initially undertook Yuzu's training back in  2012 that he could have foreseen the sheer phenomenon Yuzu would become.  He knew back then that he was dealing with a major talent, but particularly after those two weeks in late 2015 when Yuzu broke the short, long and combined records at NHK and then did it again in his very next competition, not only establishing new records but establishing 100, 200 and 300 as the benchmarks for acceptable winning scores thereafter, well, it's like those in horse racing had to readjust their perspectives when Secretariat broke the mile and a half record by over two and a half seconds at the Belmont.  I remember the look on Brian's face at the 2015 GPF when he and Yuzu were awaiting the scores after Yuzu's long program.  It's the look of one who is being made to realize that he might be sitting next to a figure-skating version of a 'god on earth'.  How can any coach react to having one of his athletes quite simply remaking the sport?  I just have a feeling that Brian at times simply stands in awe of Yuzu and as a result he thinks carefully about any remarks he makes about him in interviews.

[wpisces]

37 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I find the professional relationship Yuzuru has with his coaches more understandable than this notion that the coach is there as a second parent - we saw how that can go with Eteri and Zhenya.  I don't think there's any doubt that Orser and Javier were a lot closer than O is with Yuzuru, but Y doesn't need that sort of closeness - he has family with him.  O is reduced to talking about Y in the same cliched terms all the time because he doesn't know him that well outside the rink - he's private, he's studious, he's family oriented, and he's very focused on his skating.  J is a typical laddish European bloke who likes football, beer and socialising, (and to my eye hasn't loved skating much the last two seasons)  which btw is an equally cliched way for O to talk about him.  The bottom line is that there's a greater cultural divide between Canada and Japan than between Canada and Spain.  

 

Things went badly wrong at Boston, both sides could have handled that better.  I hope they've ironed out their communication problems, and the way the team handled the Olympics was a tour de force.  I agree that the impression we're getting at the moment is unfortunate but as long as Y is happy with the way his training is handled I don't think new people will affect him.

 

NB the informe Robinson programme was a puff piece for Javier on Spanish tv so was bound to be the way it was - I admit I could have done without the little moue of disapproval with which B described Y as 'a little too intense' but his record speaks for itself. 

Back to last November when Yuzuru was badly injured and stayed in Japan for a while, Japanese media contacted to Brian and asked him about Yuzuru's situation and he said they hadn't contacted with Yuzuru yet and didn't get any info ( via phone call, email...maybe ) from him. I wondered if a call to him and asked him how he was then was that difficult ? They was expecting a man who was physically and emotionally exhausted because of the injury to call them instead of taking the initiative and calling him. I was worried at that time that things would fall into the same pattern as Boston 2016 ( Yes, fortunately, it didn't) But I agree maybe Yuzuru didn't expect that kind of close relationship so he finds it fine and acceptable for 6 years. 

[Katt]

I just re read the article on laptop and realize its direct quote so yeah. As I said before, I understand the concern and why people feel uneasy because Yuzuru is not the type who could say no even when he doesn't like it. They did have a big communicate issue in 2016. We'll see how its goes. Tbh even if Yuzuru doesn't feel comfortable, what can he do ? He has no where to train but TCC at this point. I guess as long as it doesn't affect to Yuzuru's training, I'll be fine with everything. 

[Fay]

16 minutes ago, wpisces said:

Back to last November when Yuzuru was badly injured and stayed in Japan for a while, Japanese media contacted to Brian and asked him about Yuzuru's situation and he said they hadn't contacted with Yuzuru yet and didn't get any info ( via phone call, email...maybe ) from him. I wondered if a call to him and asked him how he was then was that difficult ? They was expecting a man who was badly injured and emotionally exhausted because of the injury to call them instead of taking the initiative and calling him. I was worried at that time that things would fall into the same pattern as Boston 2016 ( Yes, fortunately, it didn't) But I agree maybe Yuzuru didn't expect that kind of close relationship so he finds it fine and acceptable for 6 years. 

Given Yuzu’s stay in Japan lasted all of ten days, and given the time difference between Toronto and Sendai and the fact it was the the middle of the season with lots of other skaters to look after and Brian was newly after an operation - I think you’re being too critical of him, the silence wasn’t so long. But in fact, there are other possibilities too - not contacting him was part of the strategy/there was some contact but Brian decided against speaking about it etc. 

Yuzu was with the people he turns to when things go wrong for him - his family. And I tend to think asking him questions back then would be sorta putting pressure on him, not helping him overcome the injury. 

[Kadova]

I believe Yuzuru is sometimes a kind of enigma for Brian Orser. But also, being with him for 6 years, Brian knows how to manage Yuzuru. So he decided to surprise him to get a spontaneous reaction. Yuzuru may have just been stunned so unable to react at first. Or he may just not bother. We may reading too much in this, lol.

[TallyT]

37 minutes ago, Kadova said:

I believe Yuzuru is sometimes a kind of enigma for Brian Orser. But also, being with him for 6 years, Brian knows how to manage Yuzuru. So he decided to surprise him to get a spontaneous reaction. Yuzuru may have just been stunned so unable to react at first. Or he may just not bother. We may reading too much in this, lol.

 

I mean, we don't know any of these people really, so it's all too easy to read stuff into what they say publicly.... but it's also quite possible that Brian asked Javi what he thought because he knew Javi would actually, well, say it. Yuzuru, being a very different sort from a very different culture, might not answer the question, and certainly might not do so bluntly enough for honesty. So throwing it out and looking for a reaction might be a far better and more sensitive way to gauge his feelings rather than going by any words.

 

 

[k8y]

Y'all came through actually. I feel less pissy than I did when I wrote my last post re: Brian's quote in Phil's article. First, as many have pointed out, Yuzu seems to be getting what he wants from his relationship with Brian, so whatever, not my business. Secondly, as others also observed, Brian went to Yuzu's apartment to discuss this, he didn't just approach him at the TCC vending machine and was like, hey Jin's coming in June, hope that doesn't suck for you. So the conversation at least wasn't flip, even if the comment was. And though it would've been nice if Brian worded things differently,  I think I understand why he said it that way (that he didn't get a reaction from Yuzu) - imagine if he had said he got Yuzu's permission to bring on Jin et al. I'm sure a lot of other skaters/feds approached Brian after the Olympics, including possibly some Japanese skaters. Would Brian's decision not to take those skaters mean that Yuzu implicitly rejected them (in addition to all the shipping/rumors surrounding Med). Some people might take it that way, so basically the most diplomatic path was for Brian to take the responsibility for deciding which skaters he chose/didn't choose to take and leave Yuzu out of it. I don't think he had the same considerations when Yuzu came in 2012. 

[xeyra]

We also don't know what kind of prompting Phil did for that particular reply or even if it was said all in one go. 

[EisElle]

to brighten things up

 

[kaeryth]

RE: Yuzu and Brian's relationship. I think this is a matter of western (mainly north American) media VS other media. If you read the english translations of Yuzu/Brian topics from JPN interviews and articles you do get a sense of warmth and fondness (and a bit of exasperation on Brian's part ). Then when Brian gets interviewed by NBC or Icenetwork he always says the same thing.. "Yuzu's sheltered.. Yuzu lives with his mum..." blah blah blah... Honestly, it's probably harder to make out Yuzu and Brian's relationship VS Javi and Brian's relationship because they want it that way.

[Kadova]

6 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

RE: Yuzu and Brian's relationship. I think this is a matter of western (mainly north American) media VS other media. If you read the english translations of Yuzu/Brian topics from JPN interviews and articles you do get a sense of warmth and fondness (and a bit of exasperation on Brian's part ). Then when Brian gets interviewed by NBC or Icenetwork he always says the same thing.. "Yuzu's sheltered.. Yuzu lives with his mum..." blah blah blah... Honestly, it's probably harder to make out Yuzu and Brian's relationship VS Javi and Brian's relationship because they want it that way.

I agree with you. Better read the Japanese medias.

[LutzDeluxe]

7 hours ago, Katt said:

I think if one skater doesn't feel comfortable about his training mate, it can destroy the whole team dynamic and that bad energy can affect to all skaters there. Tbh I dont think Brian would reject Yuzuru had Javi said no. They would try their best to seperate these 2 skaters and figure out how to make it work. Now they have 2 ice rink, each skaters has it own schedule and things to focus so they won't train together that much. I can see that one sentence might create alot drama, but I'm sure Brian wouldn't come to Yuzuru's apartment to ask one question then left when he saw no reaction 

 

😂 I completely agree with this. No way Brian went to Hanyu’s house just to ask one question. Also, that article states that Brian will be in Japan in a few weeks for one of his shows. So I’m of the belief that all is well between them. I don’t think they will ever have the relationship that he and Javi has for various reasons. However, I think there is genuine affection between them despite what I’m sure can at times be a relationship with many peaks and valleys, which really is like any relationship. 

 

Regarding Brian not asking Hanyu about Jin, when he asked Javi about bringing on Hanyu that was more than 6 years ago. Brian and TCC were in a completely different place at that time. It had only been a couple of years since he’d come off the horrible break with Yuna,  the mass exodus from TCC that followed and as I understand, he and Javi weren’t exactly holding hands singing Kimbaya those first couple of years either. This likely all factored into Brian asking Javi about Hanyu. 

 

Now he (Brian) is a world renowned coach and TCC is considered one of the best figure skating training facilities in the business. So I don’t know if asking other skaters permission to bring on new talent is even an option anymore. They of course need to be mindful of the impact on everyone when adding skaters, but at the same time they still have a business to run.

[hoodie axel]

I don't have an opinion about not asking (yet, at least), but I don't remember -- did Orser ask anyone about adding in Medvedeva? And it doesn't seem like he about anyone asked Jason, either, right?

[Xen]

4 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

I don't have an opinion about not asking (yet, at least), but I don't remember -- did Orser ask anyone about adding in Medvedeva? And it doesn't seem like he asked anyone asked Jason, either, right?

He told Jason flat out that Boyang would be at TCC, if anything, think that means those two will partner up.