Team China

[rockstaryuzu]

1 minute ago, Eclair said:

no, in the article they specified that it was Boyangs own wish to not go, nobody elses ...

Of course they'd say that. Whether or not it's true is anyone's guess though. And it's weird that they're going from 'Jin will work with Orser ' to ' the whole team except Jin will work with Orser'. Like, this is Communist China we're talking about, nothing happens there for just no reason at all.

[Katt]

5 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Of course they'd say that. Whether or not it's true is anyone's guess though. And it's weird that they're going from 'Jin will work with Orser ' to ' the whole team except Jin will work with Orser'. Like, this is Communist China we're talking about, nothing happens there for just no reason at all.

 

Its Boyang won't move to Canada to train with Brian and Team Orser will provide training program for the whole chinese team. Whether Chinese team here involve Boyang or not, we don't know. They didn't say the whole team expect Jin.

As for Brian and his team, its more like Lori's role in Chinese team. They will give some short training camp, some advice and Dwilson may do choreo. Chinese skaters may come to TCC for summer training and that's it. Their main coaches are still Chinese. 

[salty]

i really dont wanna speculate, nor project any feelings onto Boyang but, we know Yuzuru is a huge source of inspo for him and he may be feeling like he wants to surpass Yuzu his own way. He's sticking to his guns and whether or not that turns out to be a mistake (i guess we'll know by 2022) i gotta respect him for that 

[Xen]

23 minutes ago, Katt said:

 

Its Boyang won't move to Canada to train with Brian and Team Orser will provide training program for the whole chinese team. Whether Chinese team here involve Boyang or not, we don't know. They didn't say the whole team expect Jin.

As for Brian and his team, its more like Lori's role in Chinese team. They will give some short training camp, some advice and Dwilson may do choreo. Chinese skaters may come to TCC for summer training and that's it. Their main coaches are still Chinese. 

I agree, I think the signing between TCC and CSA is more like summer seminars, and just regular training programs for chinese skaters. Also, this is possibly another method to attract young skaters to switch to the national team. Many young, promising skaters are not switching to the national team yet because they don't like handing autonomy to the fed, but this move might lead some parents of said young skaters to re-evaluate their decisions. For example An Xiangyi and some of the younger novice girls are not switching to the national team yet due to reasons such as education and autonomy. Zhao and Shen have to make joining the national team an attractive option, and having BOrser in China for even 1 of the 2 national team selection camps, as part of a training seminar is a factor that would have more young skaters join in the national selection camp. Think this year they invited Ekaterina Gordeeva for pairs. 

 

As for Boyang....I think it's part his own choice, and part politics. I would be curious if *any* of the skaters under Boyang's coaches attended or made the national selection team. Some hypothesis in the Chinese baidu bars was that his own coaching team persuaded him to stay in China. And well, other than Boyang, they don't really have another A-rank skater (Zhang He didn't get listed in the national team selection camp either for Aug). There's quite a few who think there's a political warfare between the "liberal" camp and the more "conservative" factions, and if BOrser becomes Boyang's head coach, well the conservative factions would lose out. Then there's the issue of funding and where younger skaters are being sourced from. It's not all from heilongjiang (traditional powerhouse of winter sports in China). With the growth of commercial rinks, the traditional powerhourse provences will see challenges from Beijing, Shandong (a lot of ex national team guys coach out of Qingdao), possibly Shanghai (which has a slew of good young skaters, and 2 oly sized rinks), even more remote areas such as Guangzhou (never thought a place without snow would produce skaters? think again), and Shanxi (Xi'An I aware of having a really excellent coach), and cities such as Chongqing (know a locale girl who does a 3 hour commute each weekend to go train there, the coach there got her a 2.7 m long 2A). 

[moonkat]

Boyang does have a special relationship with his coach. 

[ralucutzagy]

 

[Yatagarasu]

From what I've seen so far, and I don't mean now, Boyang simply does not want to go. Now how he got to that aside but he doesn't. Ultimately if he is unwilling better for both as not only would Boyang feel rotten but the atmosphere would be soured and it's really not conducive to a nice working enviorment. Then, would he have really progressed if he was forced into it? Big question. He's the top dog in China, comfortable in his enviorment and it suits him. His family is there, as well as friends. At TCC all of this would change in some way.

 

Of course, at the same time, not going to TCC has its potential consequences too but he's an adult so he'll have to deal with them. If one day he's plagued by what ifs, it's something to live with. If everything turns out for the best, then naturally, it couldn't be better.

I wouldn't say that remaining in China is the same thing as suddenly being trained by Orser. Eunsoo's PCS didn't jump out of nowhere. Big name coaches matter for a reason and the person by the boards counts. It shouldn't but it's pointless to go into it when reality is what it is. I would say it would have helped him in that way, as much as actual training would too. It is not a solution for everyone and not the right fit for everyone but it is so sought after for a reason. 

I cannot say I approve or disapprove of Boyang's decision; it's his choice to make and he's the one who will have to deal with what comes after but this is how I see it.

 

Anyway, tbh, the rest of this announcement sounds more like saving face, for both the Chinese fed and Brian, considering we had the big deal over Boyang there and then suddenly everything went belly up. So they're covering it by talking about cooperation etc, when in reality it is probably a few training camps. But big words will smooth out the situation and nobody is left looking awkward. 

[Katt]

@Xen : Thank you for your input. I ask a chinese friend and she just said "its very complicate". I know there's a lot of politics thing running behind chinese fed (the same with all big feds) but I guess we will never know the full story. Yeah I'm abit disappointed because I think Boyang would benefit alot from TCC's coaching system. He might be right, he might be wrong. I think he has his own goal amdI respect his decision.

 

17 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Anyway, tbh, the rest of this announcement sounds more like saving face, for both the Chinese fed and Brian, considering we had the big deal over Boyang there and then suddenly everything went belly up. So they're covering it by talking about cooperation etc, when in reality it is probably a few training camps. But big words will smooth out the situation and nobody is left looking awkward. 

 

I thought the same. It might be just some training camps in summer. I see some people act like Brian had 20+ students and I'm like " do you know Jeff and Lambiel coach the whole Japan team for years ?" 

[Xen]

15 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Anyway, tbh, the rest of this announcement sounds more like saving face, for both the Chinese fed and Brian, considering we had the big deal over Boyang there and then suddenly everything went belly up. So they're covering it by talking about cooperation etc, when in reality it is probably a few training camps. But big words will smooth out the situation and nobody is left looking awkward. 

Pretty much. They funding for Boyang came down, they have to explain to the sport fed what they do with it, and either use it or lose it (and make it harder to ask for funding later). Then there's the issue that TCC got smacked in the face by a single skater (and maybe if politics is involved, one rogue provence fed or one rogue coaching team). So better use that money and make it smoother for both the fed and for TCC. 

 

Now though, I am curious if they're going to do something similar to what they did with Gadbois- have TCC coaches come to China, but maybe later on, allow TCC to select a couple skaters whom they could see fit into the training at TCC, then have the CSA fund that skater's training overseas. 

[Katt]

2 minutes ago, Xen said:

Pretty much. They funding for Boyang came down, they have to explain to the sport fed what they do with it, and either use it or lose it (and make it harder to ask for funding later). Then there's the issue that TCC got smacked in the face by a single skater (and maybe if politics is involved, one rogue provence fed or one rogue coaching team). So better use that money and make it smoother for both the fed and for TCC. 

 

Now though, I am curious if they're going to do something similar to what they did with Gadbois- have TCC coaches come to China, but maybe later on, allow TCC to select a couple skaters whom they could see fit into the training at TCC, then have the CSA fund that skater's training overseas. 

Tbh, I'm not sure Brian want to involve more with chinese fed/skater after the deal with Boyang didn't work out. What if its happen again ? TCC is one of the most crowded coaching team right now, its the skaters come to them, not the other way around. 

[Xen]

3 minutes ago, Katt said:

Tbh, I'm not sure Brian want to involve more with chinese fed/skater after the deal with Boyang didn't work out. What if its happen again ? TCC is one of the most crowded coaching team right now, its the skaters come to them, not the other way around. 

Depends on what happens afterwards. I'm not sure if it's fully true, but there were some saying that the issue with Boyang wasn't even his fed or his local fed, but the coaching team politics. There were also others saying that the reason why pairs and ice dance can do things faster (and get the dance teams overseas) is because CSA has a more direct mandate over the skaters, so local factors can't go rogue. 

[hoodie axel]

8 minutes ago, Xen said:

There were also others saying that the reason why pairs and ice dance can do things faster (and get the dance teams overseas) is because CSA has a more direct mandate over the skaters, so local factors can't go rogue. 

I did hear China doesn't yet have a particularly strong Singles program (yet). I wonder if this is part of why. S/H have phenomenal PCS potential, but that hasn't ever been true for any singles skater, man or woman. Maybe they need to do what they did with Pairs, but they have experience there in Yao Bin and S/Z. Maybe that's why they are collabing with TCC -- to establish better programs, even if that means sending them to foreign coaches via selection processes.

[robin]

The whole politics around this goes way over my head but... it’s cool to see Boyang sticking to what he thinks is right for him. I think part of this decisions might have been that it would have been too burdensome for Boyang to train with Yuzu. (We keep on getting a utopian image of how Yuzu and Javi trained together but truth is even they were tense leading up to the Olys season.) Boyang might just prefer a more relaxed environment... it is not everyone‘s cup of tea to train in the presence of the 2xOGM. 

[Katt]

4 minutes ago, Xen said:

Depends on what happens afterwards. I'm not sure if it's fully true, but there were some saying that the issue with Boyang wasn't even his fed or his local fed, but the coaching team politics. There were also others saying that the reason why pairs and ice dance can do things faster (and get the dance teams overseas) is because CSA has a more direct mandate over the skaters, so local factors can't go rogue. 

Whatever it is, I'm glad chinese fed consider his opinion instead of forcing him. And yeah, I see alot of chinese fans also said that since the fund for Boyang training oversea already approved way before so this collab happened 

 

4 minutes ago, robin said:

I think part of this decisions might have been that it would have been too burdensome for Boyang to train with Yuzu. (We keep on getting a utopian image of how Yuzu and Javi trained together but truth is even they were tense leading up to the Olys season.) Boyang might just prefer a more relaxed environment... it is not everyone‘s cup of tea to train in the presence of the 2xOGM. 

 

I find its better if we don't drag Yuzuru into this. Its has nothing to do with him. 

[TallyT]

Given all the publicity and fuss, Boyang sure has got nerve if he is the one who put up a hand and said no. Just as Yuzu - albeit even younger - had as much for deciding to up and go. It's their lives, their careers, their shot at sporting fame or footnote.  Hardly any of their fans can even imagine what it's like to be at that level and know that it's a crapshoot really...

 

I'm disappointed, he's my favourite of the S-quad and I was looking forward to it, but he apparently wasn't, and most of all I want him to be happy and fulfilled, that matters a lot more than what we think.