Team Russia

[Lunna]

9 часов назад, Yatagarasu сказал:

There's a long-ish interview with TAT, and she thinks the athletes should go (she's super angry with the state and how they handled things). Raises some valid concerns about how they will feel, be received but also thanks the IOC for this chance to even go, as she IMO rightly points out, that they, the athletes, have this one life. I hope they listen to her. 

I fully agree with TAT interview that athletes have only one life and will get a support no matter a flag. And that after Rio officials didn't done enogh so we're in this situation now.

[kaeryth]

 

[ralucutzagy]

wow, this is getting even uglier ...

 

[axelnojutsu]

4 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

You don't dream of hearing 'Olympic athlete from Russia *your name*' when you work your butt off to be the best, you dream of hearing 'Representing Russia'. Zhenya is the best in the world at what she does now and she might not hear that. That's sad.

To be honest I don’t see the big deal? “from Russia” vs “representing Russia” is really just semantics.. it’s still right there which country she’s from, even if they’re not going to show the flag 

 

I guess I don’t really understand the national pride thing as much but I can’t see why you wouldn’t want to participate because of that.

If they’re forbidden from going that’s different of course.

 

(I’m sure, if by some circumstance Japan was banned and Yuzu was offered to go as a neutral athlete he’d probably not do it either with how much he loves his country and all that, but I mean it’s not the country that worked its whole life for this achievement it’s the individual athletes themselves...)

[Altie]

1 hour ago, Lunna said:

Didn't watch it but I can say that it's so easy to twist the facts nowdays so I don't believe any eye-opening films. As I also don't believe that only Russia is bad here. Athlets get tested during different comps during season so this whole mess sounds like pure politics to me. But I also don't say that Russian officials are innocent cuz we ended up in this situation. In the end it's the innocent athletes who must deal with it - that's the part I'm mostly angry about.

 

Perhaps you should still watch it before judging it ? And other sources too ? And make your own opinion based on facts and different testimonies, see who you believe, who you don't ?

With that "I don't trust anybody" attitude there's no room for real information and critical mind, and much more room for alt facts. The less you search for the truth, the more room you make for disinformation.

 

"Icarus" was at first a documentary about doping in cycling, after the Lance Armstrong affair. They began filming it years before Sotchi. The idea was : the journalist takes some doping drugs, and films the effects, and talks about doping in sports, especially in america.

But the twist is : the guy who advices the journalist right from the beginning about the drugs is Grigorii Rodchenkov. The head of the anti-doping russian agency who was the whistle blower in the russian state doping affair in Sotchi.

And they were still filming the documentary when the shit hit the fans, so you see all happening "live".

And, yes, it's very eye-opening. And you have facts, but also the personnality of Rodchenkov who is quite a strange man. It's fascinating.

 

 

 

And I really hope russian athlete go to peongchang

 

[ralucutzagy]

 

[SparkleSalad]

1 hour ago, axelnojutsu said:

To be honest I don’t see the big deal? “from Russia” vs “representing Russia” is really just semantics.. it’s still right there which country she’s from, even if they’re not going to show the flag 

 

I guess I don’t really understand the national pride thing as much but I can’t see why you wouldn’t want to participate because of that.

If they’re forbidden from going that’s different of course.

 

(I’m sure, if by some circumstance Japan was banned and Yuzu was offered to go as a neutral athlete he’d probably not do it either with how much he loves his country and all that, but I mean it’s not the country that worked its whole life for this achievement it’s the individual athletes themselves...)

 

I personally don't understand either, coming from a country so suspicious of authority that until very recently didn't give a hoot about its national day, but I feel terrible for any athletes who feel that it's not worth it to compete without their flag. I think it's a fair decision and I hope whatever anger the athletes are feeling gets directed towards the right people, though I understand if they want to blame those who handed down the decision. It must be devastating for them. I hope they receive support from Russia to compete but with things like refusing to even broadcast the Games, who knows.  An Olympic Games without Evgenia would be like GPF without Yuzu: weird and super asterisky. And the world deserves to see Baba Yaga.

[axelsandwich]

 

1 hour ago, axelnojutsu said:

To be honest I don’t see the big deal? “from Russia” vs “representing Russia” is really just semantics.. it’s still right there which country she’s from, even if they’re not going to show the flag 

 

I guess I don’t really understand the national pride thing as much but I can’t see why you wouldn’t want to participate because of that.

If they’re forbidden from going that’s different of course.

 

(I’m sure, if by some circumstance Japan was banned and Yuzu was offered to go as a neutral athlete he’d probably not do it either with how much he loves his country and all that, but I mean it’s not the country that worked its whole life for this achievement it’s the individual athletes themselves...)

Mm I don't know, I think in this case the semantics do matter to the athletes. It's the Olympics, which gains its prestige precisely because you're your country's representatives and competing on an international stage. They're essentially still being shamed and punished for the wrongdoings of others. I wouldn't say I'm nationalistic at all but I can see why the athletes are upset. The sanctions would lose a lot of teeth/impact if they did allow some Russian teams to compete as usual though so it's a bit of a rock and hard place : / I do think allowing them to still say Russia's name was a fair concession... it's a matter of ego and pride for the higher ups, and I hope they won't sacrifice their clean athletes just to stick to that. 

 

Accepting the sanctions is tantamount to admitting Russia did something wrong but they run the risk of not going to Tokyo 2020 if they boycott and summer Olympics is a much bigger event (let's face it) than Winter, and I get this sense that if they quietly accepted this 'punishment', that will probably be as far as the IOC goes. There's no easy solution for the athletes either way. I only wish the anger was directed properly at those involved in doping who are now responsible for ruining not only their doped athletes' lives (who knows the side effects of these drugs?), the lives of their competitors who were denied a fair chance at Olympic glory and now innocent athletes from unrelated disciplines. I hope they feel shame.  

 

I watched Icarus a few weeks ago and it's truly quite a bizarre but interesting documentary (what shocked me was how cavalier Rodchenkov was about the doping process, how matter-of-fact he was about how common it was). I don't believe for a second it isn't biased in some ways and in how it presents the various players, but I think there are certain valid points raised and the documentary is careful to show how key parts of Rodchenkov's allegations (tampering with the urine samples) were verified by a subsequent investigation by WADA and now with the IOC's second independent investigation, as well as casting light into how Rodchenkov was very much framed as a 'crazy man' by Russian media, likely leading to widespread public distrust of his honesty. The suspicious death of his fellow director (supposedly of heart attack despite having no previous history of heart problems) was also something that stuck in my memory. With all the revelations about tampering in US elections, I can't say I have a high regard for the integrity of gov operations rn in the country.

 

I'm sure I'd get a completely opposite story if I read Russian media accounts and I'm curious about what explanations they're offering against the apparently scientific findings of tampering. The truth...is somewhere inside it all. 

[kaeryth]

 

 

[xeyra]

My fear is that Putin will boycott because to allow athletes to compete with support of Russia basically means Russia considers themselves guilty and have complied with the 'punishment'. And I'm not sure Putin would do that. Especially if the political and media information about this scandal in Russia refer to it as unfounded accusations. 

Sure, they can appeal, but I'm not sure any decision on the appeal will happen before it's too late for the Russian athletes to participate.  

[Yatagarasu]

Looking at it all, from a bit of distance from the heat of the moment, I'd actually say that there's a chance they might go. There is a way to spin this in a positive light and the IOC opened this door with certain parts of that ruling. Putin and Bach are pretty friendly, so it may very well be that they all hashed out in advance what is acceptable and how to proceed. If Putin addresses this today in any way, it should give us a hint where they might go and postponing it for the 12th is potentially not a bad thing as it allows for tempers to cool off a bit and settle.

 

The ending bit, where it sort of lays out the option of raising the actual Russian flag is also a giant incentive, so we'll see. Cross everything, hope for the best.

 

 

[WinForPooh]

4 hours ago, axelnojutsu said:

To be honest I don’t see the big deal? “from Russia” vs “representing Russia” is really just semantics.. it’s still right there which country she’s from, even if they’re not going to show the flag 

 

I guess I don’t really understand the national pride thing as much but I can’t see why you wouldn’t want to participate because of that.

If they’re forbidden from going that’s different of course.

 

(I’m sure, if by some circumstance Japan was banned and Yuzu was offered to go as a neutral athlete he’d probably not do it either with how much he loves his country and all that, but I mean it’s not the country that worked its whole life for this achievement it’s the individual athletes themselves...)

I think it's probably different for athletes, because I feel pretty much like you do.  But for athletes who train from the time they're three years old especially in sports like this where state support is important (and also where that training at a certain age was probably more pain than pleasure), winning the Olympic gold specifically is such a huge goal because it's about more than personal glory. It's not just about excellence, it's also about representing their countries. Or whatever they hold dear.

 

Odd, now you've made me think about how different sports are different. Being banned from the Olympics wouldn't matter much for athletes in sports where the big glory is in competitions other than the Olympics. Like tennis, I doubt elite tennis players would choose the Olympics over Wimbledon. Or football, who would choose the Olympics over the World Cup? But the World Cup is also all about combining personal glory with national pride, so it's different too.

[Yatagarasu]

In some good news, Putin remained mum but Peskov did not.

 

Quote

"The situation is serious, it calls for deep analysis and it would be wrong to give in to emotion here,"" President Vladimir Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters.

x

 

so I'd take that as extremely, cautiously, optimistic. Back to crossing everything.

[Mastyaeva]

Guys, Putin just said they won't boycott the Olympics! No restrictions for athletes to go! 

https://rsport.ria.ru/olympic_games/20171206/1129694276.html 

[Mastyaeva]

Ok, he also added that official decision will be announced by Russian Olympic committee on December 12. But the most important thing, he already clearly publicly said that there surely won't be any restrictions. He even added "athletes were preparing for this competition during all theirs careers, this is very important for them".