General Skating Chat

[SSS]

6 hours ago, the50person said:

Speaking of which, I heard Shoma kintends to possibly try to add a 4Lz? The quad race is getting scary. Also, Junhwan is injured in hips and both ankles due to training quads.

 

 

 

The reason why I wanted 4lz now now..Are Junhwan's quads bad for health? Stay healthy Yuzu

I feel like he has the most fragile body ><

 

Is that normal in off season that Yuzu keeping secret and others showing off fancy stuff, which make fans worry...Last season I was not following news ...

 

First Japanese man...

[Lunna]

5 часов назад, xeyra сказал:

He needs the 4Lo to do 5 quads though. Unless he removes a 3A.

It will be sad cuz Shoma has very good 3A now.

[xeyra]

4 hours ago, Valkyria said:

Unless Olys end up being the splatfest to end all splatfests, of course... but then the less-splatted one still wins, usually :__D

 

If all splat, a higher BV might help. 

[Vivienne]

6 hours ago, xeyra said:

 

If all splat, a higher BV might help. 

 

Uhm no, if something like what happened in Sochi happens, the one who is the cleanest among the current top men may win or the one with the largest gap in the SP is the one who stands on the highest place of the podium. So I somehow understand when Yuzu bring back the 4T-3T: a step back to go 3 steps further.

 

But if he currently prepare for all possible scenarios: he may have a new secret weapon under his belt 

[MrPudding]

49 minutes ago, Vivienne said:

 

Uhm no, if something like what happened in Sochi happens, the one who is the cleanest among the current top men may win or the one with the largest gap in the SP is the one who stands on the highest place of the podium. So I somehow understand when Yuzu bring back the 4T-3T: a step back to go 3 steps further.

 

But if he currently prepare for all possible scenarios: he may have a new secret weapon under his belt 

 

I won't be surprised if he suddenly YOLO a quad considering the amount of YOLOs he did during 2016/2017 season 

[Altie]

I wonder if technical panels will be more strict about quads, now that they're becoming so common ?

I always wondered why single ladies tech panels were so much harsher than men panels, but I could only find two logical explanations...

1 - sexism

2 - wanting to reward those who take risks.

 

If option 2 is the right one (which I sincerely hope), then the tech panels should become stricter as the quads become more mainstream. We'll see.

 

But this quad race is really frightening. Especially with no rest day at the Olympics...

[Altie]

4 hours ago, MrPudding said:

 

I won't be surprised if he suddenly YOLO a quad considering the amount of YOLOs he did during 2016/2017 season 

 Actually that's the reason why the 4 quad layout with the 4Lz is my favourite : it allows him to YOLO almost whatever he wants, and I LOVE YOLO Yuzu XD

[Valkyria]

16 hours ago, xeyra said:

 

If all splat, a higher BV might help. 

 

As @Vivienne also said, depends on the quantity and circumstances of the splatting XD

 

I definitely see Yuzuru having a bunch of plan Bs up his sleeve besides the planned layout: having options and the capacity to adapt is good. And as long as that 4Lz is ready, he'll have a lot of those to choose from...

[CupidsBow]

Yuzu: the king of contingency plan layouts and deciding which plan to implement in his spins. 

[yuzuuu]

sad with shoma choices again.. thought it'll be different this time...guess not.

[Eclair]

7 hours ago, Altie said:

I wonder if technical panels will be more strict about quads, now that they're becoming so common ?

I always wondered why single ladies tech panels were so much harsher than men panels, but I could only find two logical explanations...

1 - sexism

2 - wanting to reward those who take risks.

 

If option 2 is the right one (which I sincerely hope), then the tech panels should become stricter as the quads become more mainstream. We'll see.

 

But this quad race is really frightening. Especially with no rest day at the Olympics...

 

Huh? I've always thought that single ladies tech panel are so much laxer and sklackier (more laid back) than men's. While UR in men is almost always called very consistently, top ladies are cut so much slack. In ladies, Kevin Reynolds would still be a top contender, just because his UR would not be called and he's from a big federation. The same goes to edges. While in men skating flutzes are usually called (with men having less problem with the lutz edge in general), ever since 2014 flutzes often are overlooked. 

 

I always thought the slack of the technical panel in singles ladies are the reason why ladies are so underwhelming (right now IMO), while men are the most exciting ever. 

 

about Shoma's 4ltz, I doubt he can rotate them ... he has problems rotating his 4 flip and 4 toe already, therefore he's pre-rotating a lot. With the correct edge, the lutz is impossible to pre-rotate, so the chances of him fully rotating a 4 lutz while not flutzing is pretty low. I'd really dislike to see him flutzing the 4lutz though. 

Shoma for me is like no other skater. When he's on, like he was at worlds, I absolutely love his skating. He was so on point with the music.

But when he's not 110% on point I really really dislike his skating. He doesn't even have to make major mistakes, but I couldn't stand his skating the whole season even if he landed his jumps, because that musicality and choreography (IMO what makes his skating great) wasn't 100% on point. I don't watch Shoma because of his jumps, but because of his choreography, presentation and expression. 

 

 

[Eclair]

On 31.7.2017 at 3:22 PM, Forcefield said:

I think Shoma is another adorable cutie pie and fierce competitor who deserves respect for his skating - but also let me add this that my initial reaction to this news is disappointment. I would like for him to focus on the quality of his jumps before upping the ante, though he probably is trying and not to say he can't do it simultaneously but ISU and their easy scoring of him is indirectly ruining him and the health of the new generation of skaters. Yuzu is able to reach his current peak years with 8 senior years under his belt but will any of these boys after him?

 

Totally agree! I wish to see longevity in skating, that's what made last year's worlds with multiple world champions, olympic medalists etc. competing against each other possible. 

 

I think, the reason why Yuzu was able to peak with 8 senior years is because his jumping technique is so good, that it only puts minimal strain on his body. He also has immense talent in jumping, which is helpful, too. Also, the tech and medical team in Toronto know what they do. 

 

With Shoma, I think training so many quads is not the problem. The problem is, he's training quads with his bad technique. I think it's just a matter of time till he gets a knee or hip injury. 

 

Nathan has good technique too, so I have hope that he could theoretically have longevity in this sport if he wants. But since his current plan is win the Olympic gold and then r****, I think he's being too relentless with his body right now. 

 

Boyang will most probably have some longevity. We already know that he wants to stay at least till 2022, also he has very good technique, too. Out of all youngsters, even if it sounds ridiculous, he is the one pacing himself the most. He only trains quads 1,5h hour per day at most, sometimes less to prevent injury. Also, he very very talented in jumping, which is why he can afford to limit his training time, while still landing the jumps. 

 

I don't think banning quads or restricting the numbers of quads would be fair, though. Even though I want to see longevity in men's skating, I think what causes most injuries is not the top talented guys training quads with good jumping technique. What causes most injuries is less talented guys overtraining or with bad jumping technique trying to achieve quads, like Eteri tried to do with Adian.  

 

[yuzuangel]

23 hours ago, Eclair said:

With Shoma, I think training so many quads is not the problem. The problem is, he's training quads with his bad technique. I think it's just a matter of time till he gets a knee or hip injury.

 

Yes  but given his build, which is a bit stockier/shorter than other guys', I think he may just physically be unable to do quads with good technique. Didn't Satoko say because of her build, she can't just higher? But then you have Karen Chen, who is also 4'11", which has the biggest jumps in the world?

 

23 hours ago, Eclair said:

Nathan has good technique too, so I have hope that he could theoretically have longevity in this sport if he wants. But since his current plan is win the Olympic gold and then r****, I think he's being too relentless with his body right now. 

 

I don't know Nathan, so not sure what his actual thoughts are, but he did change his mind a bit and say he wanted to go to UC (Riverside?) in order to keep training with Raf, so it really depends. Would be a shame if he retired because he does have great jumps and potential for great musicality. (He just needs to put it all together! )

 

23 hours ago, Eclair said:

Boyang will most probably have some longevity. We already know that he wants to stay at least till 2022, also he has very good technique, too.

 

Yes, can't wait for Boyang at 2022 Beijing Olympics, I think he will be one of the favorites...

 

23 hours ago, Eclair said:

What causes most injuries is less talented guys overtraining or with bad jumping technique trying to achieve quads, like Eteri tried to do with Adian.

 

Poor Adian 

[Xen]

1 hour ago, yuzuangel said:

 

Yes  but given his build, which is a bit stockier/shorter than other guys', I think he may just physically be unable to do quads with good technique. Didn't Satoko say because of her build, she can't just higher? But then you have Karen Chen, who is also 4'11", which has the biggest jumps in the world?

 

Poor Adian 

Stockier build isn't really the reason why someone can or can't jump. Mai Mihara isn't exactly tall either, and she's got great jumps. Then a lot of the male skaters back in the days (Scott Hamilton, BOrser, Uncle Kurt) didn't even reach the 170 CM mark height wise and still did fine with their jumps. In regards to Yuzu's jumps, the way Uncle Kurt described it, "No one else transfers speed to height (or was it distance?) like he does." The is more an issue of technique and how you time your take-off. Yuzu is an efficient jumper; as for Shoma, the fact he can take-off with his flip technique, makes me inclined to say he's more of a strength based jumper. And this is more of how did you train your jump technique starting with your single jumps. So nothing to Shoma, but more of who and how they trained him.  Already, a lot of kudos to him for attempting and starting to re-train his edges for his lutz jumps, that's quite a bit of courage there.

 

As for Adian, I actually thought he had nice quads when he did them. His health is a real pity....

[kaeryth]

7 hours ago, yuzuangel said:

 

 But then you have Karen Chen, who is also 4'11", which has the biggest jumps in the world?

 

Karen URs a lot though (just isn't called for some reason)... judges / tech panel needs to call these things otherwise skaters will continue on with what they're currently doing instead of fixing issues.