General Skating Chat

[fireovertheice]

Waiting for GPF, and also for the complete translation (usually and generously done by @Lys), here other tidbits for thoughts from Ambesi&Dolfini pocast https://www.spreaker.com/user/talk-sport/puntata-9:

 

To note: the following is not a literal translation but my summary of some points of the podcast (you can find the indication of the exact timing to check), also if I tried to stick to the original words and concepts expressed in Italian for the more interesting and "sensible" parts.

 

1) Dolfini said (73.25 mins) that the program of Nathan Chen (meaning mostly the FS) is in the moment of the greatest technique expansion ("massima espansione tecnica") and thus the program is emptier by definition ("più vuoto per definizione") in comparison to those of the ladies - or other men - with similiar PCS scores, i.e. around 87/88 pts.

Plus Ambesi and Dolfini both recall the fact the Nathan FS seems to be still having an open layout, with major liberty to change the transitions and the pattern in the set ups for the different jumps, so it's obvious that the program is poorer/ simplier in terms of TR. In doing so the strategy for this program of Nathan Chen seems to renounce deliberately to follow the rules to obtain major/maximum scores in PCS, in favor of a stellar score in TES.

So they criticize North American analysts (Wong) complaining that 87 PCS for Chen's FS was a low score. For Ambesi and Dolfini clearly 87 for that program and performance was way too high.

 

2) They speak about the eccessive levelling in the high scores for the top men because of the correlation between TES and PCS scores (from. 75.16): following Dolfini the latter (relation TES/PCS scores) is always been so in FS, also if under COP it should be not. Now, if certain athletes land difficult quads and have high TES , they tend to get automatically  high scores in all the PCS. For Dolfini this leads to the debate they had also in other occasions about the necessity of change in the coefficient between TES and PCS, with the raise of the latter.

Ambesi stress that in the meantime the price for that is paid by the whole package athletes, as Hanyu, Fernandez, Chan as well as by other very good skaters in all the PCS that are not landing quads, such as Brown and Rippon. Brown is also faster than Chen, following Ambesi. Thus for Ambesi the problem seems to insist also the judges evaluation and in the application of the current rules.

So, Dolfini concludes that the best would be to have both: change the coefficient and correct the evaluation of PCS, also if the latter is not so easy in the short time available to the judges.

 

3) Lastly, they again stress out the necessity of a major differentiation among the scores of the five PCS, that could reflect better the characteristics of the single skaters but also their actual performance (minute 80.50 on). In the way its used now the new scoring system loss its meaning.

 

In consideration of all these factors and in how the system works/is applied now (also with the excessive BV given to the 4Lz in comparison to other difficult quads), Chen with his strategy, just IF he lands all his planned jumps without falling in the FS (6quads with 2 Lz, one in combo and another in the 2nd half, and Flip), also with a far more than perfect skate (with PCS in the range of 88-90), is the favorite to win, beating also the best Hanyu and on the contrary to what Plushenko said.

 

P.S. I like the fact that Ambesi then said that if Nathan lands all those jumps planned without falling, one has to bow to him and he should pass as the greatest jumper in the history of FS (I think that is clear who is the GOAT figure skater in his mind...)

 

[WinForPooh]

10 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

I think Evgenia is a fine athlete, fierce as can be, and ridiculously cute and sweet and wonderful but the pantomime style is not my favourite. In person it's a lot more tolerable, though. Actually, I didn't really notice it all that much, much to my surprise. What I did notice was a lack of flow and artistry and it my be that close-ups of those exaggerated facial expressions on TV actually add something afterall. Watching her in person made me very aware that I was watching a sport. That being said, I now know she was injured at the time so I don't feel like it's entirely fair to form an opinion based on what I saw at that competition. 

 

Real-life fairy Satoko is not only the epitome of refinement but also sooooo teeny weeny that perhaps she would benefit from a bit more force and projection. Even from an arena seat she was too small or far away to really connect with. 

 

I'm not sure any skaters actively try to reach a balance in their performance that makes them both appealing on and off screen (I would think the only goal would be to impress the judges) but I really appreciate now those that can be both. I so wish I could have seen Yuzu to find out where he falls on the scale. I'd expect he'd be the kind that is much more impressive live, as everyone says. He's incredibly lucky to be under the wings of so many wonderful and artistically sensitive people. I'm so, so happy for him that choosing a coach based on quads happened to lead him down this magical path.  💞

 

And Pumpkin King is beyond all crticism... because he can read your thoughts and will turn you into pumpkin pulp if you dare question him. 🎃🎃🎃🎃🎃

Zhenya got WR PCS injured, so I'd wager that her performance style and impact were not drastically affected by the injury. I guess the subjectivity is a huge factor. And if the pantomime style is not so pronounced live, I would like her more for it! She is only just turned 18, the expectations of level of performance from her is ridiculous. And anyway, her style doesn't have to appeal to everybody. Her exhibitions are more fun - reminds me of Wakaba's SP, like she's actually enjoying herself out there.TBH I don't get wowed by Caro's skates on screen, either. I've heard that Mai doesn't have that projection, but on screen, she seems beautiful with really lovely flow on ice.

 

Satoko makes me feel like when I try to read Marlowe. Undoubtedly brilliant and elegant and excellent but all a bit too high brow for me. _{I feel positively uncouth that I left that cow comparison open for Satoko now.}

 

Watching Yuzu live must be unforgettable. *hugs* You'll see him, I'm sure!

[SparkleSalad]

2 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

Zhenya got WR PCS injured, so I'd wager that her performance style and impact were not drastically affected by the injury. I guess the subjectivity is a huge factor. And if the pantomime style is not so pronounced live, I would like her more for it! She is only just turned 18, the expectations of level of performance from her is ridiculous. And anyway, her style doesn't have to appeal to everybody. Her exhibitions are more fun - reminds me of Wakaba's SP, like she's actually enjoying herself out there.TBH I don't get wowed by Caro's skates on screen, either. I've heard that Mai doesn't have that projection, but on screen, she seems beautiful with really lovely flow on ice.

 

Satoko makes me feel like when I try to read Marlowe. Undoubtedly brilliant and elegant and excellent but all a bit too high brow for me. _{I feel positively uncouth that I left that cow comparison open for Satoko now.}

 

Watching Yuzu live must be unforgettable. *hugs* You'll see him, I'm sure!

 

I agree about the pressure. I did notice her improving this season and I know she can only get better.  I just think the development of artistry is really held back by the strategy to maximise TES and that style of expression just seems to be what's taught to those skaters. I think skaters like Yuzu who choose their own music have an advatage, as well. They don't need to learn to connect to something they already feel passionate about. 

 

I haven't re-watched her NHK performance so I don't know if it was apparent but I did feel at the time that something was off or weighing on her mind. Could be that the Yuzu's injury was weighing on mine, though.

 

I will hopefully see him big and close at Worlds if an angel will float down and sell me a dream ticket, otherwise I'll live with small and far away. I'm already in a better position than I was for NHK, though - I didn't even have an FS ticket for that!

 

Moo.

 

Also, Moo.

 

 

[WinForPooh]

2 minutes ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

I agree about the pressure. I did notice her improving this season and I know she can only get better.  I just think the development of artistry is really held back by the strategy to maximise TES and that style of expression just seems to be what's taught to those skaters. I think skaters like Yuzu who choose their own music have an advatage, as well. They don't need to learn to connect to something they already feel passionate about. 

 

I haven't re-watched her NHK performance so I don't know if it was apparent but I did feel at the time that something was off or weighing on her mind. Could be that the Yuzu's injury was weighing on mine, though.

 

I will hopefully see him big and close at Worlds if an angel will float down and sell me a dream ticket, otherwise I'll live with small and far away. I'm already in a better position than I was for NHK, though - I didn't even have an FS ticket for that!

 

Moo.

 

Also, Moo.

 

 

We all know he will compete. Of course he will. The boy doesn't know how not to.

 

Also, same feeling I have with the Eteri skaters - not much in the skaters' hands, and programmes designed for max TES and transitions. Smart strategy, but it's asking too much of 15-18 year olds to deliver that AND captivating performances. At the end of the day, their aim is to win. They're doing that.

 

_{Go on, have a cup of tea. Go on. Go on. Go on.}

[Murieleirum]

6 hours ago, Xen said:

@SparkleSalad: you asked about weaknesses before yes? Well my favorite program of Yuzu's to date is Chopin SP (2.0 and 3.0 being preferred). One hint: opening first series of moves before the SE-4S-SE. I also suggest you try overlaying a pianists' hands over a vid of Yuzu's step sequence towards the end, the really passionate, crescendo, furious part-it's a beautiful imagery but might kill you. 

 

Do you want to kill me?

I'm currently studying the "step sequence"'s piano part at, like, 25% the original speed. It's so intricate, so desperate, so angry. Just like Yuzuru skates. Chopin's step sequence is the smartest, if not the most beautiful, step sequence in the history of figure skating, to me. Period. 

When I first found Chopin's SP on youtube, I was surprised. I said, out loud "Oh gosh, he's using this piece..." which I already had an emotional connection with... and he completely turned it upside down for me. He made me betray the violin fall in love with the piano all over again çuç

[meoima]

There are some skaters who are better at projecting in reality than on television. Some skaters make me feel flat watching live (for example Dimitri Aliev is a bit not remarkable to me). Carolina is someone you have to watch in real time to understand why she gets such PCS despite low TES. She does have some special movement and maturity. I really like watching her even though her programs this season are boring to me.

[Joey]

1 hour ago, WinForPooh said:

Also, same feeling I have with the Eteri skaters - not much in the skaters' hands, and programmes designed for max TES and transitions. Smart strategy, but it's asking too much of 15-18 year olds to deliver that AND captivating performances. At the end of the day, their aim is to win. They're doing that.

 

I would agree partly, but definitely not for all Eteri girls. While very talented, I do think Alina for example is currently still a bit overstrained to keep up with the complexity of her programs, and ends up looking quite a bit rushed, unfinished, and in single moments IMO even a bit "clunky". Evgenia was similar at the start of her senior career, but for me has majorly outgrown it. But then Polina Tsurskaya is also a Eteri girl, and I think she is completely different in that regard. She takes a lot more time to finish her movements, her choreo is still complex compared to the average senior lady, but much less so then Zhenya/Alina. It helps that she has way stronger basic SS then those 2 though (she has among the strongest SS in senior ladies right now IMO. But she usually gets forgotten in those discussions).

There are also the Junior girls - where I think Aljona, and partly Sasha & Nastya - can give very good performances despite their choreo being so complex (just a random comparison, those girls have more complexity into their SP solo jumps then quite a few senior skaters in their whole choreographic sequence). Obviously, they don't have Kostner level performances, but then they are also 13-14

 

As for the live vs on screen discussion - I personally actually don't think that the differences are that huge, but yes quite some skaters get some extra seeing them live (or loss some).

Some examples from my experiences: the biggest change for me was in ID. I always was team Shibs > Chock/Bates during 2014-15 & the start of 2015-16, until I saw both teams live. The Shibs excel in areas that look good on screen: very clean & tidy in what they do, good musical timing, lovely details. C/B on the other hand were faster, more powerful, and especially Madison had amazing projection IMO. She gave me the feeling I saw her "up closer" then the others, like she was right in front of me, because there was just so much presence and her movements were very "big". Next to them, the Shibs looked smaller and more "contained" in what they did.

Ashley Wagner was a funny case for me - her PE comes across even better live, as she has good projection and really knows how to sell her stuff. Like, really. But her weak basic SS are more obvious too, given how every time there is some form of complex footwork, she slows down a lot (and her step sequences cover very little ice. Like, comparing them from WC17, Mai or Waka cover 4x as much ice during theirs). Gracie Gold looked better live too, speed & power were very clear, but she also looked similarly wooden to on screen for me. Satoko is a similar case as the Shibs, she didn't really reach out as much and looked quite small in her skating, while Kaori was way more impressive live. She doesn't have the refinement or same amount of details, but she is very fast and also has this "just throwing myself into this" thing that gets me personally hooked. Waka & Mai look similar between live & on screen to me. Their speed comes across even more live too, but overall their skating works in both media. On the men's side, a lot of people say "You have to watch Chan live to get it!", but I don't agree. His amazing basic SS are undeniable either way to me, but I also don't think his projection is the greatest. Regarding Yuzu, I think he's another one who looks great either way, but yes live there is that extra something there. He has a command over the arena (when he's on) that doesn't quite translate like that on screen. What also sticks out is how unusual his layouts are - Yuzu has a lot more jumps only set up over the short ends of the rink then most other guys. Stuff like this I think is often overlooked on screen.

Overall though, seeing skaters live is fun, especially if you factor the whole atmosphere in an arena in. But I rarely set there and thought "man, I never understood why that skater get's 9's in PCS, now I think she/he should get 10's!". But then, all just my opinion of course.

[Xen]

2 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Do you want to kill me?

I'm currently studying the "step sequence"'s piano part at, like, 25% the original speed. It's so intricate, so desperate, so angry. Just like Yuzuru skates. Chopin's step sequence is the smartest, if not the most beautiful, step sequence in the history of figure skating, to me. Period. 

When I first found Chopin's SP on youtube, I was surprised. I said, out loud "Oh gosh, he's using this piece..." which I already had an emotional connection with... and he completely turned it upside down for me. He made me betray the violin fall in love with the piano all over again çuç

I assure you that I had no intention of killing you. It was directed to SparkleSalad. 

But I think after Yuzu's chopin, I might have trouble accepting another skater's version of Chopin. He personifies the coiled, contained intensity and passion of Chopin, going from gentle, melancholic, contained, to finally unfurling everything in all its intensity in the final step sequence. That is Chopin in a nutshell for me. =)

 

4 hours ago, fireovertheice said:

Waiting for GPF, and also for the complete translation (usually and generously done by @Lys), here other tidbits for thoughts from Ambesi&Dolfini pocast https://www.spreaker.com/user/talk-sport/puntata-9:

 

To note: the following is not a literal translation but my summary of some points of the podcast (you can find the indication of the exact timing to check), also if I tried to stick to the original words and concepts expressed in Italian for the more interesting and "sensible" parts.

 

2) They speak about the eccessive levelling in the high scores for the top men becacuse of the correlation between TES and PCS scores (from. 75.16): following Dolfini the latter (relation TES/PCS scores) is always been so in FS, also if under COP it should be not. Now, if certain athletes land difficult quads and have high TES , they tend to get automatically  high scores in all the PCS. For Dolfini this leads to the debate they had also in other occasions about the necessity of change in the coefficient between TES and PCS, with the raise of the latter.

Ambesi stress that in the meantime the price for that is paid by the whole package athletes, as Hanyu, Fernandez, Chan as well as by other very good skaters in all the PCS that are not landing quads, such as Brown and Rippon. Brown is also faster than Chen, following Ambesi. Thus for Ambesi the problem seems to insist also the judges evaluation and in the application of the current rules.

So, Dolfini concludes that the best would be to have both: change the coefficient and correct the evaluation of PCS, also if the latter is not so easy in the short time available to the judges.

 

In consideration of all these factors and in how the system works/is applied now (also with the excessive BV given to the 4Lz in comparison to other difficult quads), Chen with his strategy, just IF he lands all his planned jumps without falling in the FS (6quads with 2 Lz, one in combo and another in the 2nd half, and Flip), also with a far more than perfect skate (with PCS in the range of 88-90), is the favorite to win, beating also the best Hanyu and on the contrary to what Plushenko said.

 

P.S. I like the fact that Ambesi then said that if Nathan lands all those jumps planned without falling, one has to bow to him and he should pass as the greatest jumper in the history of FS (I think that is clear who is the GOAT figure skater in his mind...)

 

Interesting...so I'm assuming they also factored in GOE, which Yuzu usually nets quite a bit of, that helps offset any deficiencies in pure BV. Well, guess Yuzu won't let go of his 4Lz toy this season, with reason. It would be more interesting now to see how Nate will be scored versus Shoma at GPF, and PCs wise I don't think he has fully beat Jason yet? 

 

As for the rules, this is something I was thinking over-the COP system and the 6.0 system and how skaters are classified. Well, showing my age, I grew up watching figure skating in the 6.0 system era with ordinals. The way media portrayed skaters, you usually had 2 distinct categories, the athletic skater versus the artistic skater. Athletic skaters such as Plushenko, Irina Slutskaya, and artistic skaters such as Johnny Weir, Sasha Cohen and even Michelle Kwan. And it seemed that skaters tend to get straight-jacketed once they end up in one group in the minds of judges, and the ordinals probably made it even harder for a skater from the athletic camp to cross over a bit to the artistic side. The COP system to a degree, probably tried to do away with that, so artistic skaters had to step up the difficulty, while athletic skaters had to also bridge the gap in artistry. So to a degree, some of the more "athletic" skaters are being forced to do programs that are more artistic than they would need back in the old 6.0 system. And artistic skaters are also being forced to catch up on technical content too. And this allows a balanced, nuanced figure skating that is probably closer to the ideal. If correctly, we should have more "hanyu" types of technical powerhouse+artistic style combined. 

 

However some of the more recent application though for PCS and GOEs, the flurry of quads, and the hint of a new artistic/technical program divide, makes me wonder if we ever really got out of the ordinals mindset. And it's sad that before the COP really had a chance to shine, there's now talk of scraping it for something new that might create more problems than solutions. 

 

 

[Joey]

Those examples make it sound like the rules under 6.0 basically were:

Russians: the technicians

Americans: the artists

Asians: don't exist

 

Which is probably not to far from how the judges viewed things xD

[WinForPooh]

2 hours ago, Joey said:

<whole post>

You're right about Polina, her skating is different. But I haven't watched enough of the junior girls to know what you're talking about, I'm sure you're right, I should watch more junior skating!

But your thoughts about live vs TV is so interesting, especially because I'll likely be watching on screen in the foreseeable future so I won't find out for myself. But with Yuzu, I can feel the difference because of how evident it is that the audience really is with him when he is on. There's something different there, he brings them into his story and takes them with him. But it makes sense that cleaner, smoother performers, maybe even the more contained ones, look better on camera than live. They'd be easier to capture in the frame.

[meoima]

3 hours ago, Joey said:

 

I would agree partly, but definitely not for all Eteri girls. While very talented, I do think Alina for example is currently still a bit overstrained to keep up with the complexity of her programs, and ends up looking quite a bit rushed, unfinished, and in single moments IMO even a bit "clunky". Evgenia was similar at the start of her senior career, but for me has majorly outgrown it. But then Polina Tsurskaya is also a Eteri girl, and I think she is completely different in that regard. She takes a lot more time to finish her movements, her choreo is still complex compared to the average senior lady, but much less so then Zhenya/Alina. It helps that she has way stronger basic SS then those 2 though (she has among the strongest SS in senior ladies right now IMO. But she usually gets forgotten in those discussions).

There are also the Junior girls - where I think Aljona, and partly Sasha & Nastya - can give very good performances despite their choreo being so complex (just a random comparison, those girls have more complexity into their SP solo jumps then quite a few senior skaters in their whole choreographic sequence). Obviously, they don't have Kostner level performances, but then they are also 13-14

 

As for the live vs on screen discussion - I personally actually don't think that the differences are that huge, but yes quite some skaters get some extra seeing them live (or loss some).

Some examples from my experiences: the biggest change for me was in ID. I always was team Shibs > Chock/Bates during 2014-15 & the start of 2015-16, until I saw both teams live. The Shibs excel in areas that look good on screen: very clean & tidy in what they do, good musical timing, lovely details. C/B on the other hand were faster, more powerful, and especially Madison had amazing projection IMO. She gave me the feeling I saw her "up closer" then the others, like she was right in front of me, because there was just so much presence and her movements were very "big". Next to them, the Shibs looked smaller and more "contained" in what they did.

Ashley Wagner was a funny case for me - her PE comes across even better live, as she has good projection and really knows how to sell her stuff. Like, really. But her weak basic SS are more obvious too, given how every time there is some form of complex footwork, she slows down a lot (and her step sequences cover very little ice. Like, comparing them from WC17, Mai or Waka cover 4x as much ice during theirs). Gracie Gold looked better live too, speed & power were very clear, but she also looked similarly wooden to on screen for me. Satoko is a similar case as the Shibs, she didn't really reach out as much and looked quite small in her skating, while Kaori was way more impressive live. She doesn't have the refinement or same amount of details, but she is very fast and also has this "just throwing myself into this" thing that gets me personally hooked. Waka & Mai look similar between live & on screen to me. Their speed comes across even more live too, but overall their skating works in both media. On the men's side, a lot of people say "You have to watch Chan live to get it!", but I don't agree. His amazing basic SS are undeniable either way to me, but I also don't think his projection is the greatest. Regarding Yuzu, I think he's another one who looks great either way, but yes live there is that extra something there. He has a command over the arena (when he's on) that doesn't quite translate like that on screen. What also sticks out is how unusual his layouts are - Yuzu has a lot more jumps only set up over the short ends of the rink then most other guys. Stuff like this I think is often overlooked on screen.

Overall though, seeing skaters live is fun, especially if you factor the whole atmosphere in an arena in. But I rarely set there and thought "man, I never understood why that skater get's 9's in PCS, now I think she/he should get 10's!". But then, all just my opinion of course.

Kaori’s SP is a huge relevation to me. Watching her live with such speed, such jumps. Wow But the LP is a bit... I don’t know how to say this. But I am glad she sold it much better at SA. 

[kaeryth]

8 hours ago, fireovertheice said:

1) Dolfini said (73.25 mins) that the program of Nathan Chen (meaning mostly the FS) is in the moment of the greatest technique expansion ("massima espansione tecnica") and thus the program is emptier by definition ("più vuoto per definizione") in comparison to those of the ladies - or other men - with similiar PCS scores, i.e. around 87/88 pts.

Plus Ambesi and Dolfini both recall the fact the Nathan FS seems to be still having an open layout, with major liberty to change the transitions and the pattern in the set ups for the different jumps, so it's obvious that the program is poorer/ simplier in terms of TR. In doing so the strategy for this program of Nathan Chen seems to renounce deliberately to follow the rules to obtain major/maximum scores in PCS, in favor of a stellar score in TES.

So they criticize North American analysts (Wong) complaining that 87 PCS for Chen's FS was a low score. For Ambesi and Dolfini clearly 87 for that program and performance was way too high.

 

 

This is actually the same criticism I have of him last season. His SP is good because he connects well to this program but at the same time I think it's also because he has only 3 jumping passes and thus, needs to follow a structure/program. His FS has so much promise, but having an arsenal of quads to play with is actually not helping him in my eyes (but not his team or the judges' apparently). Just like last season's Polovtsian Dances, as the season passes his FS gets emptier and emptier. We joke about him not having a planned layout, but I feel like it would benefit him to actually have one otherwise the latter half of the program would just be skate-jump-skate-jump (some semblance of transition here and there). I doubt it'll happen though because the judges would still reward him if he lands everything.

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

This is actually the same criticism I have of him last season. His SP is good because he connects well to this program but at the same time I think it's also because he has only 3 jumping passes and thus, needs to follow a structure/program. His FS has so much promise, but having an arsenal of quads to play with is actually not helping him in my eyes (but not his team or the judges' apparently). Just like last season's Polovtsian Dances, as the season passes his FS gets emptier and emptier. We joke about him not having a planned layout, but I feel like it would benefit him to actually have one otherwise the latter half of the program would just be skate-jump-skate-jump (some semblance of transition here and there). I doubt it'll happen though because the judges would still reward him if he lands everything.

 

Also, let's think about the possibility (well, it's going to be reality) of going to the Olympics without a planned layout, or maybe with a planned layout that you never tried before (a 7 quads program). Think about the psychological stress. Yeah, no joke about that. If I was Nathan, I'd be happy to come out of that alive. 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

On 2017/12/1 at 午前2時33分, Xenさんが言いました:

Letting himself be the vehicle for the music to be conveyed, and not letting the music be the vehicle for his style-it's actually a bit arrogant, but respectful towards the music.  

 

I hesitate in deeming him arrogant, at least in his choice to serve the music rather than the more common practice of doing it the other way around. He only came to the realization when Miyamoto was choreographing HnN for him and only when Miyamoto gave him all that input about his spins. He was all about doing what he's good at before that bit of guidance provided to him by Miyamoto. So it shows that he took the experience and input of others that he deems wiser and make a lot of sense and willingly changed his style based on them. Which is basically his whole MO anyway. His whole style is based on what he has appropriated from others which he then smashed together and synthesized and evolved till they become something that's uniquely his own. That's quite the opposite of arrogant, if you asked me. There may other aspects of him that can be deemed as arrogant (I can name one or two but the way he applies it, I find it a necessary evil for him to deliver the kind of results he is delivering) but in this, I think he's far from it.

[Xen]

1 hour ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

I hesitate in deeming him arrogant, at least in his choice to serve the music rather than the more common practice of doing it the other way around. He only came to the realization when Miyamoto was choreographing HnN for him and only when Miyamoto gave him all that input about his spins. He was all about doing what he's good at before that bit of guidance provided to him by Miyamoto. So it shows that he took the experience and input of others that he deems wiser and make a lot of sense and willingly changed his style based on them. Which is basically his whole MO anyway. His whole style is based on what he has appropriated from others which he then smashed together and synthesized and evolved till they become something that's uniquely his own. That's quite the opposite of arrogant, if you asked me. There may other aspects of him that can be deemed as arrogant (I can name one or two but the way he applies it, I find it a necessary evil for him to deliver the kind of results he is delivering) but in this, I think he's far from it.

Ahha, no I didn't mean it that way. When I said "arrogant" I meant more of "Boy he sure has confidence to believe he can do that so well and so quickly." How to put it, a bit of confidence that's not proven/fully justified yet. Being a vehicle for the music to fully express itself, is I think, something even few experienced dancers and musicians can fully own up to, even if they dream of achieving it.  Maybe he can say so due to age (the young are braver than us old ones after all), but that pluck is probably part of the charm. =)

 

As for Yuzu live, well the lucky encounter at ACI. I'll say this- Yuzu draws you in. His movements don't exactly go from him extending to the audience-my impression is that he goes outward pulling it inwards. How to put it-it's as if he is hyper aware that there is an audience watching him, yet at the same time as soon as the first note strikes, he's back into his own world. Dancing as if he's alone, and no one is watching. And it's that quality that draws you in-kind of like you caught someone dancing with abandon in a darkened stage, a bit of a guilty pleasure because it feels as if you should not be there watching at all. A bit as if you intruded into someone's little private world by accident-though in Yuzu's case, since he is aware of the audience, it's by invitation. As if he walked up to you one day, after dance practice, and said "I trust your opinion, can you watch me dance my program today?"  No other person, just you being trusted with his world and his soul, bared with abandon on that darkened stage. Extremely intimate and personal. 

 

After his jumps, I seriously wondered if I should clap at all, because there is an ethereal quality to his performance. It's like watching a tapestry of the music unfurl in front of you-and in your mind you think that any disturbance in the music, the flow, could unravel the piece before you. Even the popstar Seimei had that feel to it- a certain pull of making you spellbound to watch the wreckage enacted in front of you. And so you wait, with baited breath the entire duration of the performance, to clap your hands until they are red and raw at the end. 

 

Alright time to get more work done, before I start writing sonnets to his skating...