General Skating Chat

[Xen]

1 hour ago, meoima said:

I think the injury in right ankle will affect both Lutz and Loop. But maybe it’s just not a serious injury so he can soon land both quads after several weeks. We should hope for the best.

Oh definitely, but my bias is that it affects loop more, since loop take off depends more on the right leg and foot. But you are correct, now that I think of it, that Lutz would also be majorly effected, since the picking action for Yuzu would require him to flex more at the ankle and foot joint region to launch, and his rather fast takeoff might be more straining than the "messy taps" slow setup combo other guys have. 

 

We'll see, because we know he'd want both jumps back, and will be drowning in Extra-Strong-Kuyashii^TM if he has to go to Olys without either. 

[SSS]

1 hour ago, Xen said:

Oh definitely, but my bias is that it affects loop more, since loop take off depends more on the right leg and foot. But you are correct, now that I think of it, that Lutz would also be majorly effected, since the picking action for Yuzu would require him to flex more at the ankle and foot joint region to launch, and his rather fast takeoff might be more straining than the "messy taps" slow setup combo other guys have. 

 

We'll see, because we know he'd want both jumps back, and will be drowning in Extra-Strong-Kuyashii^TM if he has to go to Olys without either. 

I feel like he needs at least one for mental health. I don't want to see some crazy debut of...positive thinking positive...hope for speedy recovery again

[meoima]

3 hours ago, SSS said:

I feel like he needs at least one for mental health. I don't want to see some crazy debut of...positive thinking positive...hope for speedy recovery again

Well not competing at NHK and GPF means he will peak later at National and Olympic. Think of it that way. 

[Forcefield]

9 minutes ago, CupidsBow said:

 

I don't think so. I'd be very surprised if Nathan or Shoma got over 112 in the SP/223 in the FS. And if they do their protocols will be absolutely baffling to look at.

 

Nathan and Shoma gets a lot of candies though, and both are very loved by the judges. (I feel really bad for Boyang.) Unfortunately, judges don't seem to care what protocols say about them, never have.

 

7 minutes ago, Syless Jinx said:

 

But really, I hate that without the 3 guys, there is no standard to what real skating looks like and no bar to measure PCS...

 

THIS. So depressing. I see candies everywhere and miraculous improvements in skating score-wise, even if the actual skating says otherwise.

 

Just now, SSS said:

this won't happen.  If that happens, both ISU and skaters might die... just think about it....the ACI PERFECT Chopin and WC PERFECT H&L...

 

One reason I do think ISU will allow it to happen is because they want to build hype for Olys, and it doesn't matter if viewers don't think it deserves a world record score, it will if they need it to be. ISU never seems to care about any of that.

 

 

 

And really, I'm just being in my cynical mood right now and thinking the darker thoughts.

[SSS]

2 minutes ago, Forcefield said:

 

Nathan and Shoma gets a lot of candies though, and both are very loved by the judges. (I feel really bad for Boyang.) Unfortunately, judges don't seem to care what protocols say about them, never have.

 

 

THIS. So depressing. I see candies everywhere and miraculous improvements in skating score-wise, even if the actual skating says otherwise.

 

 

One reason I do think ISU will allow it to happen is because they want to build hype for Olys, and it doesn't matter if viewers don't think it deserves a world record score, it will if they need it to be. ISU never seems to care about any of that.

 

 

 

And really, I'm just being in my cynical mood right now and thinking the darker thoughts.

Still, that will not happen. 

SP:

Nathan is far from the 112...

Shoma is closer but the difference between their BVs is like 2 points? (if I remember correctly, his BV is almost the same as the 4lo BV) Do you think the judges dare to give higher goe and pcs to make the skating difference less than 2 points...and in Nagoya? We are watching them...

LP:

Nathan's 5 quad program was far from the 223...

Shoma is closer but will he put 4S in and land it to get 5 quads? 223 is a 4-quad perfect program...

 

You can't give them a gpf title, a world No.1 rank and WRs at the same time. the world would be destroyed...and too much pressure...no good to skaters.

[Forcefield]

8 minutes ago, SSS said:

Still, that will not happen. 

SP:

Nathan is far from the 112...

Shoma is closer but the difference between their BVs is like 2 points? (if I remember correctly, his BV is almost the same as the 4lo BV) Do you think the judges dare to give higher goe and pcs to make the skating difference less than 2 points...and in Nagoya? We are watching them...

LP:

Nathan's 5 quad program was far from the 223...

Shoma is closer but will he put 4S in and land it to get 5 quads? 223 is a 4-quad perfect program...

 

You can't give them a gpf title, a world No.1 rank and WRs at the same time. the world would be destroyed...and too much pressure...no good to skaters.

 

Breaking my pessimism a bit, Shoma's hometown is Nagoya, isn't it though? I'm actually sure even if Yuzu isn't there, GPF Nagoya will be packed and viewers will tune in because of that. At least I'll be happy for Shoma if he is able to face the pressure and make the people of his hometown proud by getting on the podium. I actually think because of the location there's a high chance Shoma might beat Nathan there, again if he can handle the pressure.

 

[CupidsBow]

41 minutes ago, SSS said:

Still, that will not happen. 

SP:

Nathan is far from the 112...

Shoma is closer but the difference between their BVs is like 2 points? (if I remember correctly, his BV is almost the same as the 4lo BV) Do you think the judges dare to give higher goe and pcs to make the skating difference less than 2 points...and in Nagoya? We are watching them...

LP:

Nathan's 5 quad program was far from the 223...

Shoma is closer but will he put 4S in and land it to get 5 quads? 223 is a 4-quad perfect program...

 

You can't give them a gpf title, a world No.1 rank and WRs at the same time. the world would be destroyed...and too much pressure...no good to skaters.

 

Shoma has a pretty good handle on pressure but we'll see how he copes with a major international event in his hometown with no yuzu there making him the primary/only japanese rep. He didn't take that kind of pressure well at Nationals (i love this fluffy boy though so I hope he's okay. I dont want him to bomb)

 

I think Shoma absolutely has a very good chance of beating Nathan. We'll see how they do in their 2nd GP events but so far Shoma is leading the pack in points. However...

SP opens with 4F which isn't exactly Shoma's strongest jump. Yuzu got 112 by damn near maxing out his TES and getting 48 in PCS. So far neither Shoma or Nathan are anywhere close to maxing out their max TES (or going over 60 tho Shoma hit 59 at Lombardia...so i guess hitting 60+ TES is possible with his score as inflated as it was at Lombardia but 64? no way) and Shoma getting PCS that high would be a stretch. Same goes for Nathan. And same kinda applies for the FS. Shoma's program this season is not good enough to earn above 223. Nathan's program is good but i don't think there's enough going on for him to get the kind of pcs he'd need to break the WR.  They would both need to come with 10 pts of their max TES to get above 223 with their current average PCS and frankly them getting +2/+3 on every element as of right now is a fairytale. 

 

They might break 110/219 but not 112/223

[SSS]

7 minutes ago, Forcefield said:

 

Breaking my pessimism a bit, Shoma's hometown is Nagoya, isn't it though? I'm actually sure even if Yuzu isn't there, GPF Nagoya will be packed and viewers will tune in because of that. At least I'll be happy for Shoma if he is able to face the pressure and make the people of his hometown proud by getting on the podium. I actually think because of the location there's a high chance Shoma might beat Nathan there, again if he can handle the pressure.

 

That's true. They can hype but not too much. Again, no good to Shoma...Nathan is there, USFA is strong, you cannot rob Nathan. (I sound like they are both in...)

GPF Nagoya is already facing critiques about banning the banners and reserving 700? (Total 6000?) seats for Toyota employees to go to this international competition. GPF mayor gave some horrible comment (something like the event would give gold to Shoma without any doubt)... JSF needs to think about their reputation before they act...

Let's talk about pressure. Shoma's pressure now will be super high.

1. This NHK, no medal for TJ (some 7 year? or 10 year? tradition ended)

2. Hometown pressure.

3. He is JSF's hope and favorite. ( I am still about no JSF warm comments or even warm comments from senpai [Oda does not count])

4. Might be only TJ member in GPF.

5. No Yuzu, all pressure on him.

6. History of Nationals and first WC.

7. Even if he gets gold, that gold won't weigh the same as previous years. He needs to prove his gold with good performance.

8. The number of haters might increase, no matter how well he does, win or not

9. Results affect pressure in OG. 

10. ...

I truly hope he will beat the stress, fix his jumps, get more transition, less crossovers and get onto the podium at home.  

[PapiandPooh422]

19 minutes ago, SSS said:

That's true. They can hype but not too much. Again, no good to Shoma...Nathan is there, USFA is strong, you cannot rob Nathan. (I sound like they are both in...)

GPF Nagoya is already facing critiques about banning the banners and reserving 700? (Total 6000?) seats for Toyota employees to go to this international competition. GPF mayor gave some horrible comment (something like the event would give gold to Shoma without any doubt)... JSF needs to think about their reputation before they act...

Let's talk about pressure. Shoma's pressure now will be super high.

1. This NHK, no medal for TJ (some 7 year? or 10 year? tradition ended)

2. Hometown pressure.

3. He is JSF's hope and favorite. ( I am still about no JSF warm comments or even warm comments from senpai [Oda does not count])

4. Might be only TJ member in GPF.

5. No Yuzu, all pressure on him.

6. History of Nationals and first WC.

7. Even if he gets gold, that gold won't weigh the same as previous years. He needs to prove his gold with good performance.

8. The number of haters might increase, no matter how well he does, win or not

9. Results affect pressure in OG. 

10. ...

I truly hope he will beat the stress, fix his jumps, get more transition, less crossovers and get onto the podium at home.  

 

16 minutes ago, Syless Jinx said:

Not to mention, the past 5 years have been won by a Japanese man (Dai - 12, Yuzu - 13,14,15,16)

Hope Shoma loves roller coasters because no matter what, he's in for one hell of a ride!! 

[Katt]

24 minutes ago, CupidsBow said:

They might break 110/219 but not 112/223

 I agree with this. Especially the SP, its very difficult to reach 112 even with 4lz/4f. Tbf 110 is hard enough. As for the LP, it might a bit easier since they have more jumps, but the judges wont reward new WR that easily. I dont think we will see any new WR at GPF. Whenever Yuzu broke new WR, we would see the more inflation in scoring, but I have a weird feeling that judges try to keep other's score closer to him, but not over it. I though Javi would have Sp's wr in WC17, but it didnt happened. 

Anyway, I dont care about the rest of the GP series anymore. Who's gonna win, how's their score is irrelevant to me. I would like to send all the positive vibe to Yuzuru and pray that his recovery goes smoothly, everything will get back on track soon  

[MrPudding]

Just now, Katt said:

 I agree with this. Especially the SP, its very difficult to reach 112 even with 4lz/4f. Tbf 110 is hard enough. As for the LP, it might a bit easier since they have more jumps, but the judges wont reward new WR that easily. I dont think we will see any new WR at GPF. Whenever Yuzu broke new WR, we would see the more inflation in scoring, but I have a weird feeling that judges try to keep other's score closer to him, but not over it. I though Javi would have Sp's wr in WC17, but it didnt happened. 

Anyway, I dont care about the rest of the GP series anymore. Who's gonna win, how's their score is irrelevant to me. I would like to send all the positive vibe to Yuzuru and pray that his recovery goes smoothly, everything will get back on track soon  

 

I'm totally side eyeing every non-Yuzu related things 

[GreatLakesGal]

12 hours ago, Katt said:

Anyway, I dont care about the rest of the GP series anymore. Who's gonna win, how's their score is irrelevant to me. I would like to send all the positive vibe to Yuzuru and pray that his recovery goes smoothly, everything will get back on track soon  

 

I feel exactly the same. And annoyed at myself for subscribing again to IceNetwork since I did that primarily for the GP events. I watched a few NHK videos this weekend because I was curious to see how the American skaters did there but I'm not really invested in anyone except Yuzu.

[Murieleirum]

2 hours ago, GreatLakesGal said:

 

I feel exactly the same. And annoyed at myself for subscribing again to IceNetwork since I did that primarily for the GP events. I watched a few NHK videos this weekend because I was curious to see how the American skaters did there but I'm not really invested in anyone except Yuzu.

 

I feel like I will watch GPF Male singles because I want to follow what the judges do and how the "top 6 skaters" skate there and what is their condition... but it will be an extremely sad competition. Everyone will realize it. Probably, even the skaters skating there. I mean, just for example, Shoma's final aim is still to beat Yuzuru, but he's only going to have a chance at that at Nationals. And even there, we don't know how Yuzuru's condition is going to be. 

[Lyyli]

On 10.11.2017 at 7:14 PM, Xen said:

1) I don't think limiting the number of quads will do that much. So long as people have to train quads, train any jump in figure skating actually, the danger of physical injury is always there. When I was little, practicing figure skating, I saw a girl hit her head on the ice training a double salchow. She had landed her 2S quite well that season, but that one slip was all it took for them to ship her to the hospital and probably never skate again. She had already stabilized her 2 Lutz by then, but fell on an easier jump. Then again, we usually joked about hitting our chin on the ice when even starting off camel spins, and I've had my fair share of landing on my chest when starting camel spins. I've seen people nearly faceplant when trying spirals too. I've had worse falls practicing footwork than doing jumps-and a rinkmate whose worst falls are practicing spins. Everyone's mileage varies. The ice is slippery, so risks exist regardless of what you do. 

 

 

Thanks a lot for a long post. Mine was very short as usually, I should have explained more at first. I was thinking there only about FS issues and the effects of the quads on the men and the boys involved in FS or considering FS, not comparing FS to the other sports. They certainly have their issues and challenges as well. Not all are the same what comes to the safety of the athletes.

 

Apparently the quad pressure is very strong at the moment in men´s discipline. Don´t know really what the skaters think about it. They just seem to try to keep up with the race.  If they are ok with the multiple quads in LP, that is how it should be then. But if they are not? Maybe the upcoming rule change will make a difference for the best of them, one  jump less in LP, -5+5 GOE or whatever the changes will be. I think limiting the number of quads in LP would at least ease the pressure at the competitions and the pressure of putting more of them to the program year by year. Don´t they already master the triples and triple-combos quite well in general. And with more triples they would be able to do more difficult transitions and add more artistry in their programs.

 

I haven´t seen any statistics but I believe most of the injuries in senior singles are jump-related, in hips, knees, ankles and lisfrancs, in ligaments and joints after all. Injuries can of course appear in simple moves too but that is not the case there in men´s field.

 

To learn the right jump technique skaters need to jump first and do lots of repeats, right? Didn´t Yuzu do at the most 60 4sals a day while learning it. Lots of falls and bad landings that can cause an injury before the jump is ready enough. So as top talented skaters with top tech jump coaching get often injured, what kind of prospects of future do FS boys have. What are their chances to avoid serious injuries and stay healthy enough in quad era. How are they able to handle the hard jump training mentally. I hope this is only a question of wise training and coaching. Maybe there will be at least some junior male skaters with ambitious mindset who really want the quads and are ready to deal with injuries and pain. And ISU as well as all the other sport federations taking safety issues seriously.
 

[katonice]

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