SparkleSalad Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 hours ago, OonsieHui said: And to think this was way back in 2013! His technique and strength has only improved since then, so imagine what they are like now! Wish we had a sideways (?) fancam of H&L Helsinki for comparison! This is as sideways as it gets, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Remember those jump height and rotational speed statistics posted a while ago from a Russian blogger? Well, they've done the men now: https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/ternovblogfk/1442944.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=www.sports.ru Kovtun apparently has the highest 4T. And Kolyada the highest 4Lz as suspected. Yuzu has the second highest 4S! Kolyada seems to have on average some of the highest jumps. And it's not just toe pick jumps. He has the highest 3S too! At least in the universe of the competitions the statistics are based on. Yuzu appears to be above average in height and rotational speed, even if he is not the fastest rotator or the one with the highest jumps. I guess he strikes a perfect balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OonsieHui Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, xeyra said: Remember those jump height and rotational speed statistics posted a while ago from a Russian blogger? Well, they've done the men now: https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/ternovblogfk/1442944.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=www.sports.ru Kovtun apparently has the highest 4T. And Kolyada the highest 4Lz as suspected. Yuzu has the second highest 4S! Kolyada seems to have on average some of the highest jumps. And it's not just toe pick jumps. He has the highest 3S too! At least in the universe of the competitions the statistics are based on. Yuzu appears to be above average in height and rotational speed, even if he is not the fastest rotator or the one with the highest jumps. I guess he strikes a perfect balance. I'm actually quite surprised that he isn't highest in terms of height and/or rotational speed for the 3A. I mean, there is a reason why almost everyone thinks he's going to be the one to land the 4A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 34 minutes ago, OonsieHui said: I'm actually quite surprised that he isn't highest in terms of height and/or rotational speed for the 3A. I mean, there is a reason why almost everyone thinks he's going to be the one to land the 4A. He's never had the highest 3A. That's why he needs 17cm more for the 4A. Edit: According to the translation google gave me, Yuzu's average 3A height was measured out of 5 attempts that ranged from 57cm to 63cm. In comparison, Mura's average came from attempts that ranged from 63.04 to 70.59! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaeryth Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I wonder what his stats will be if he didn't do his jumps from difficult transitions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 I love google translate of this part of the article: Takahito Mura - the owner of the most powerful in the world jumps Kevin Reynolds - the owner of a very large number of jumps and Vincent Zhou - the owner of a very large number of ambitions Accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xeyra Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 By the way, according to the analysis, Yuzu's 4Lz attempt at WTT had height: 72 cm, rotation: 5.00 rps. The slower rotation is probably why he had the bad landing so he's likely to have tightened that up. But, man, those 4Lz jumps are HIGH. One thing I wish these analysis included too is distance. Are the highest jumpers covering as much distance as others with less height in their jumps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaeryth Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, xeyra said: By the way, according to the analysis, Yuzu's 4Lz attempt at WTT had height: 72 cm, rotation: 5.00 rps. The slower rotation is probably why he had the bad landing so he's likely to have tightened that up. But, man, those 4Lz jumps are HIGH. One thing I wish these analysis included too is distance. Are the highest jumpers covering as much distance as others with less height in their jumps? Well.. we at least know his 3A covers 12 seats... now how does one go about measuring those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EisElle Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Not that surprised about the stats, and I'd like to point out that in that table with the total heights Yuzuru is the first among those who put a lot of transitions before their jumps... Patrick second, not surprising either, his toe loop is huge. Not sure from were they took Yuzuru's 3Lo, probably they considered other programs aside those listed at the beginning (I'd like to know based on which criterion they picked the programs too. Obviously not the season best, or they would have picked Boyang's FS from Helsinki. I didn't google translate, is per chance written in the text?). The thing that really surprises me though is that 4Lz are apparently much higher than 4F. Shouldn't it be the opposite? I thought the flip was the jump one could get greater height... but maybe it's because the more powerful jumper haven't done it yet. I think Nathan has a slightly higher lutz while Vincent has a slightly higher flip (though tbh here I'd like to know if those jumps were all properly rotated, Vincent is sometimes prone to issues in that regard, Kevin Reynolds too and some others, the datas about angular speed would end rather skewed then). But apparently a lot of skaters get more height on 3Lz compared to 3F too, exceptions being Boyang, Jason, Patrick, Kevin (Yuzu gets exactly the same ). 5 hours ago, xeyra said: One thing I wish these analysis included too is distance. Are the highest jumpers covering as much distance as others with less height in their jumps? I wish the same, though maybe it's harder to measure distance accurately due to camera angles. If I remember my physics lessons correctly, in a parabolic trajectory both distance and height are related to the initial speed and the angle of the vector too (well, the initial speed is a vector that has a certain angle with the ground and can be seen as the composition of an horizontal speed and vertical speed, that combined will determine your time of flight. It gets a lot easier to understand when thinking about how in films they show how they adjust the angle of a cannon to make the cannonball reach the target. Ops, I'm going a bit off topic here). The initial speed is obviously related to the entrance speed of the skater and the spring his muscles can get, but in FS jumps there is also the additional difficulty of the skater rotating as he goes up and forward, so it gets too complicated for me. Maybe the spring gives the skater the height while the entrance speed (and body type, plus how fast he can tighten his body) determines both the angular speed and the horizontal speed, and therefore distance? But then there is the Axel where it seems all those different aspects can't be separated at all... Anyway, height isn't directly related to distance, they are both depending on "something else", so there can be jumps that get a lot of height but are short in distance and viceversa jumps that are not so high but cover a lot of space. I agree that likely the highest jumpers aren't those who cover the most distance. In general the highest jump can't be the longest, because the energy has to be somehow split between going "up" and going "forward" and, unless someone has both some very outstanding spring and crazy speed, sacrifices must be made. I guess a skater has to strike the perfect balance. (tbh I think Yuzuru has pretty much the best combination of body type and muscle spring and entrance speed, considering he's squeezing his jumps between difficult transition all the time and still manages to get a lot of height and distance, if not the absolute maximum. Though at the moment he does have the highest 4Lo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xen Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 4 hours ago, xeyra said: By the way, according to the analysis, Yuzu's 4Lz attempt at WTT had height: 72 cm, rotation: 5.00 rps. The slower rotation is probably why he had the bad landing so he's likely to have tightened that up. But, man, those 4Lz jumps are HIGH. One thing I wish these analysis included too is distance. Are the highest jumpers covering as much distance as others with less height in their jumps? Hmm, not necessarily. If you don't have enough distance there are also issues with axis tilt. I'm thinking of this video on youtube where they compare Sergei Voronov's 3A with Javi's 3A. The height is different from the article, but the video also gives a distance covered, and Javi covers more ground than Sergei. Perhaps that would explain the tilt. On the other hand, would the height of the jump also affect how easily it is for the jump to tilt off axis and cause an unbalanced landing? For example, to go higher you have to throw your body off balance a bit more to get it. Then there's the fact Yuzu has both good height and good rotation speed, which makes his 3A so stable- so perhaps he really can, as he said on that show, control his speed, height and distnace. Video btw: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murieleirum Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 6 hours ago, xeyra said: I love google translate of this part of the article: Takahito Mura - the owner of the most powerful in the world jumps Kevin Reynolds - the owner of a very large number of jumps and Vincent Zhou - the owner of a very large number of ambitions Accurate. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aotoshiro Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 13 hours ago, xeyra said: Remember those jump height and rotational speed statistics posted a while ago from a Russian blogger? Well, they've done the men now: https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/ternovblogfk/1442944.html?utm_source=tw&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=www.sports.ru Kovtun apparently has the highest 4T. And Kolyada the highest 4Lz as suspected. Yuzu has the second highest 4S! Kolyada seems to have on average some of the highest jumps. And it's not just toe pick jumps. He has the highest 3S too! At least in the universe of the competitions the statistics are based on. Yuzu appears to be above average in height and rotational speed, even if he is not the fastest rotator or the one with the highest jumps. I guess he strikes a perfect balance. Just saying, but from the competitions listed in that post, there's no chance they had measured half of Yuzu's solo triples, since almost all of them are the freaking second part of combination. Which is. Kind of. Disturbing. When you see his are still in the top 10 between the solo triples of other people? Unless I understand wrong and it's actually easier to get height on the second part of the combo Also, just as Xerya, still curious about the distance here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaeryth Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xen Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 2 hours ago, kaeryth said: --- Someone want to hook her up with Max? She'd probably enjoy him. =) I'm not sure about Jackie of the "messy tap/clean tap" line... Did she also forget Boyang? 6 hours ago, Aotoshiro said: Just saying, but from the competitions listed in that post, there's no chance they had measured half of Yuzu's solo triples, since almost all of them are the freaking second part of combination. Which is. Kind of. Disturbing. When you see his are still in the top 10 between the solo triples of other people? Unless I understand wrong and it's actually easier to get height on the second part of the combo Also, just as Xerya, still curious about the distance here... I'm more amused by how consistent Yuzu's jump height is. He's fairly stable, and it seems if you measure height with jump stability/success rate, the highest jumps are not the most stable (unless you are boyang and his 4Lz). So maybe Yuzu's 4Lz real issue is that it's taller than what he normally handles- so maybe he could just spin a bit faster and jump a bit lower at 65-68ish, and it'll stablize? Triples are always at 41+ CM even in combo (which is harder to gain height). And in terms of total height, translated is at 5th and absolute is 4th. Pretty impressive! Also looking at Jason Brown's stats, I'm surprised by his lower rps. I'm also amused that Shoma's height and rps are lower than Nate's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSS Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 On 10/18/2017 at 2:23 AM, xeyra said: He's never had the highest 3A. That's why he needs 17cm more for the 4A. Edit: According to the translation google gave me, Yuzu's average 3A height was measured out of 5 attempts that ranged from 57cm to 63cm. In comparison, Mura's average came from attempts that ranged from 63.04 to 70.59! adding 17cm will make it 77.1cm for 4A...what does this mean? in those tables, the only one which is higher than 77.1 is Kolyada's 4Lz ( 78.4cm )... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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