General Skating Chat

[unicorn]

swanbeau said:

Anyway, i have a question. The reason yuzu 'jump a salchow that look like a toe loop' and vice versa was because his sp was all edge jump and it'll 'look boring' otherwise right? (edit: wait dont tell me its just because he wants to challenge himself? lmao) Because it's not like it gave him any advantage risk-wise and score-wise... (i still cant believe he's this extra about small details) but what does he meant by that? the entry? transitions? i remember he said something about edge jump and something about curve... but i dont remember much else

I think Yuzuru was referring the to entry curve and location on the ice. For the 4Lo, he goes in a big circle in the center of the rink so it's a very round approach, while for the salchow, almost like if it was a toe jump, he goes more alongside the longer side of the rink and does a 4S+3T using a much shallower entry curve. I think it's probably harder for him but there's no extra points involved, except for the subjective choreography/composition mark where they can reward placing elements in interesting and different places.

 

I totally picked up on this and as a 10th judge I would give him higher marks for it because look how both the movements and patterns on the ice are so much rounder when the music is just those psychedelic, aimless guitars (lots of spread eagles, ina bauers, and skating in big circles) and then as soon as the drum line kicks in and the music has more "direction", his movements become much tighter and the patterns become a lot more linear. Jeffrey Buttle

[gladi]

Anyway, i have a question. The reason yuzu 'jump a salchow that look like a toe loop' and vice versa was because his sp was all edge jump and it'll 'look boring' otherwise right? (edit: wait dont tell me its just because he wants to challenge himself? lmao) Because it's not like it gave him any advantage risk-wise and score-wise... (i still cant believe he's this extra about small details) but what does he meant by that? the entry? transitions? i remember he said something about edge jump and something about curve... but i dont remember much else

I think Yuzuru was referring the to entry curve and location on the ice. For the 4Lo, he goes in a big circle in the center of the rink so it's a very round approach, while for the salchow, almost like if it was a toe jump, he goes more alongside the longer side of the rink and does a 4S+3T using a much shallower entry curve. I think it's probably harder for him but there's no extra points involved, except for the subjective choreography/composition mark where they can reward placing elements in interesting and different places.

 

I totally picked up on this and as a 10th judge I would give him higher marks for it because look how both the movements and patterns on the ice are so much rounder when the music is just those psychedelic, aimless guitars (lots of spread eagles, ina bauers, and skating in big circles) and then as soon as the drum line kicks in and the music has more "direction", his movements become much tighter and the patterns become a lot more linear. Jeffrey Buttle :goe:

 

<-- I picked up on the movements matching to the music and I was aware of the adjustments they made to his entries for variety, but I never thought about how the patterns on the ice are matching the progression of the music! unicorn, you always make me appreciate his programs in new, fresh ways :love: :love: Thank you! you wouldn't consider doing an LGC version of what you did for H&L, would you? ^.^ *greedy*

 

In terms of the jumps themselves, I'm probably out of my depth here, but I think he personally preferred the flow and "swoosh" of edge jumps and worked hard to make his toe jumps give off a similar vibe (the really light toe pick, the camouflaged flip, a shorter than normal setup for lutz, etc). Yuzu aesthetics? :)

[unicorn]

gladi said:

<-- I picked up on the movements matching to the music and I was aware of the adjustments they made to his entries for variety, but I never thought about how the patterns on the ice are matching the progression of the music! unicorn, you always make me appreciate his programs in new, fresh ways Thank you! you wouldn't consider doing an LGC version of what you did for H&L, would you? ^.^ *greedy*

 

In terms of the jumps themselves, I'm probably out of my depth here, but I think he personally preferred the flow and "swoosh" of edge jumps and worked hard to make his toe jumps give off a similar vibe (the really light toe pick, the camouflaged flip, a shorter than normal setup for lutz, etc). Yuzu aesthetics? :)

Haha, I did promise a LGC rant, didn't I. :devil: I'll aim for sometime in the next few weeks to gather my thoughts.

 

And I forgot about that gladi, you're absolutely right! I remember he said that he tries not to make his toe-picking too obvious, he always tries to pick very light and without much preparation so that it doesn't disturb the flow. Definitely Yuzusthetics

[swanbeau]

<-- I picked up on the movements matching to the music and I was aware of the adjustments they made to his entries for variety, but I never thought about how the patterns on the ice are matching the progression of the music! unicorn, you always make me appreciate his programs in new, fresh ways :love: :love: Thank you! you wouldn't consider doing an LGC version of what you did for H&L, would you? ^.^ *greedy*

 

In terms of the jumps themselves, I'm probably out of my depth here, but I think he personally preferred the flow and "swoosh" of edge jumps and worked hard to make his toe jumps give off a similar vibe (the really light toe pick, the camouflaged flip, a shorter than normal setup for lutz, etc). Yuzu aesthetics? :)

Haha, I did promise a LGC rant, didn't I. :devil: I'll aim for sometime in the next few weeks to gather my thoughts. :space:

 

And I forgot about that gladi, you're absolutely right! I remember he said that he tries not to make his toe-picking too obvious, he always tries to pick very light and without much preparation so that it doesn't disturb the flow. Definitely Yuzusthetics :bow:

Oh yeah that is also the reason he loves axel jump the most right? because it gives such a natural flow since its a forward take off.

 

It'd be lovely to read that LGC rant so i'm looking forward to it (though no pressure if you dont have the time ^^;)

 

Thank you gladi and unicorn both for answering! It's all very interesting. (is there some image of his LGC pattern on ice?)

[beki]

This is what I like about Yuzu, these Yuzusthetics. Because you can appreciate his programs on a straightforward level, or you can go all the way down the rabbit hole. There's always more, more, more.

[Dara]

Interesting compilation of quads from various competitions of 2016-17 season

 

[meoima]

ISU has just released a communication 2089 for singles and pairs: http://static.isu.org/media/508716/2089 ... 017-18.pdf

 

There is this part I don't understand. Maybe my English is too weak for it:

----

"SP: Jumps not according to jump requirements final

GOE must be -3"

----

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

Thank you in advance.

[ShiroKJ]

ISU has just released a communication 2089 for singles and pairs: http://static.isu.org/media/508716/2089 ... 017-18.pdf

 

There is this part I don't understand. Maybe my English is too weak for it:

----

"SP: Jumps not according to jump requirements final

GOE must be -3"

----

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

" Jump element not according to requirements final GOE must be -3"

 

Most likely in reference to jumps which are invalided /zayak (as part of the combo)

[meoima]

 

" Jump element not according to requirements final GOE must be -3"

 

Most likely in reference to jumps which are invalided /zayak (as part of the combo)

But it's required to give -3 if you don't have combo already. So I don't get why they have to add another similar rule.

[ShiroKJ]

 

" Jump element not according to requirements final GOE must be -3"

 

Most likely in reference to jumps which are invalided /zayak (as part of the combo)

But it's required to give -3 if you don't have combo already. So I don't get why they have to add another similar rule.

 

There's a blurry line between not doing a combo and doing a combo but having one jump invalided. Judges can still give a skater -2 to +goe for the first jump even if the 2nd part of the combo was invalided whereas this rule plainly states that -3GOE is a REQUIREMENT, not a choice for such situations.

 

Then again, with the ISU, rules are always anything but clear lol

[Dara]

 

" Jump element not according to requirements final GOE must be -3"

 

Most likely in reference to jumps which are invalided /zayak (as part of the combo)

But it's required to give -3 if you don't have combo already. So I don't get why they have to add another similar rule.

I think they changed wording of the rule...

 

2016-2017 SOV communication:

SP: Combo of one jump final GOE must be -3

2017-2018 SOV communication:

SP: Jump element not according to requirements final GOE must be -3

 

Other interesting changes :acceptable:

 

Step Sequences requirements:

4) Two different combinations of 3 difficult turns on different feet executed with a clear rhythm within the sequence. Only the first combination attempted on each foot can be counted.

I guess this means there is no point anymore in having more that two combinations.

 

GOE positive aspects:

2) clear recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element

Bolded part used to be "difficult".

 

Program Components

As a guideline the score ten (10) should not be awarded for any of the components in a program containing a Fall or Serious error.

No definition of "serious error" given.

 

Step sequence pattern: It must be visible and identifiable and should be performed by using almost the full ice surface (e.g. straight line, serpentine, circle, oval or similar shape) either in it’s length from short barrier to short barrier or twice in its width from long barrier to long barrier.

IIRR that part of sentence they delete was the reason of Satoko's 0 points for StSq at GP.

[xeyra]

ISU has just released a communication 2089 for singles and pairs: http://static.isu.org/media/508716/2089 ... 017-18.pdf

 

There is this part I don't understand. Maybe my English is too weak for it:

----

"SP: Jumps not according to jump requirements final

GOE must be -3"

----

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

Thank you in advance.

I may be having the wrong, pessimistic reading of this, but it seems like to me that in addition to giving -3 to not having a combo or having an invalidated combo, you may now actually also get -3 for any invalid jump, which means a single will not give you just 0 points anymore, it'll give you -3. No more popping in the SP, guys. You're done now. I forgot you'd need to apply the -3 GOE to the actual BV of the popped jump, which would be peanuts since the actual GOE taken would be -0.3.

This rule applies only to the combo issues. Popped solo jumps not part of the combo will still get invalidated and worth 0. No - GOE applied to, you know, jumps worth no BV. *facepalm*

[EisElle]

I wonder if the spread eagle can be still counted as "creative, interesting, original" given how overused it's becoming of late :s_scratchhead

Poor Yuzu. Maybe we won't see the spread eagle sandwich next season?

[xeyra]

I wonder if the spread eagle can be still counted as "creative, interesting, original" given how overused it's becoming of late :s_scratchhead

Poor Yuzu. Maybe we won't see the spread eagle sandwich next season?

Spread eagles still count as transition/steps, I think? Though I never see them applied to a solo quad jump except by, well, Yuzu. Usually they're getting attached to the 3As (Shoma, Nathan, Yuzu back in Chopin 1.0).

[Anna]

ISU has just released a communication 2089 for singles and pairs: http://static.isu.org/media/508716/2089 ... 017-18.pdf

 

There is this part I don't understand. Maybe my English is too weak for it:

----

"SP: Jumps not according to jump requirements final

GOE must be -3"

----

Can anyone enlighten me?

 

Thank you in advance.

I may be having the wrong, pessimistic reading of this, but it seems like to me that in addition to giving -3 to not having a combo or having an invalidated combo, you may now actually also get -3 for any invalid jump, which means a single will not give you just 0 points anymore, it'll give you -3. No more popping in the SP, guys. You're done now. I forgot you'd need to apply the -3 GOE to the actual BV of the popped jump, which would be peanuts since the actual GOE taken would be -0.3.

 

I think you're right.