5 minutes ago, Paskud said:

3lze3lo<

 😅 Sometimes I can't tell when you are being sarcastic and when you truly like something, but I've accepted that this is just your brand.

8 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

 😅 Sometimes I can't tell when you are being sarcastic and when you truly like something, but I've accepted that this is just your brand.

I mean, it is planned 3lze3lo<. He can't rotate it and he can't lutz. But I like choreo around this very flawed jumping pass.

Otoh I agree it's very clear judges already decided who should win here. And I still think that ladies event is Young's to lose.

Kao's 4S

 

 

6 minutes ago, SuzyQ said:

Kao's 4S

 

 

 Yes the distance is huge but it looks like out of control

On 1/21/2022 at 9:34 AM, yuzupon said:

Hmm... TCC bonus is a thing. Orser is actually a really good PR person.

How do you think Yuna Kim and Javier Fernandez got to the top? Their federation? Only by their sheer talent (Fernandez with his weird Lz AND F jumps, Yuna with the absence of 3A AND 3Lo in her arsenal) when they have worthy competitors? Don't make me laugh.

It doesn't work on Yuzu because of other reasons*. And it's not because TCC bonus is not real.

 

(*Among them: between Yuzu and Fernandez, it is crystal clear who Orser preffered. If the comps have no Fernandez in it tho, I would argue TCC bonus worked for Zu for awhile just not after 2015-2016 season, bcz a certain wunderkid appeared.)

 

I digress, tho. It's only my observation, which can be off.

Sorry, but not only are you wrong, you're straight up crazy. 

 

I can't believe you're questioning and casting aspersions on Yuna Kim's record. The woman who, from the very first day she started skating, long before she met Brian, never finished off the podium even once in her entire career? Seriously, you're questioning that?

 

And 'Orser is a great PR person'? What?! Have you even watched any of the man's interviews?! He spends half the time with his foot jammed firmly in his mouth, saying things he shouldn't....what the h**l do you mean, good PR person?  No bloody way.

 

 

Blocking you now, because you're obviously so out of touch with reality there's no point in talking to you. 

5 hours ago, liv said:

Personally, I thought Jun's performance was better than Kazuki's. It felt like he attacked it more, and the choreo was amazing. That long 3a setup will always bother me, but the rest was amazing. The speed was improved too.  Kazuki did get the higher tech score. I thought their scores would be closer, but 1pt diff is not huge. 

The only error in Jun's skate was the long lead up to his 3A.  Otherwise nearly flawless.

And I'm with @rockstaryuzu on this one - if there was any sort of TCC bump, Yuzu would have always won and Jun would have placed higher before.  Really - the Japanese skaters are great, but they've had ice time and in-person coaching.  Jun has not.  He has spent the last 20 months training nearly by himself with very restricted ice time. He's at an amazing disadvantage to all the skaters who have had coaches with them and ice availability. Kudos to him for being so hard working and so brilliant.  (And yes, he needs to work on the telegraphing, but give him some time with actual coaches and it will happen.

20 minutes ago, barbara said:

the Japanese skaters are great, but they've had ice time

I wouldn't be so sure about this one.

 

 

 

P.S. You really think that whether skater is coached by / gets choreo from known or unknown person doesn't influence judges?

Tbf, I don't think Brian takes part in any behind the stages shady shenanigans. But I also think that Junhwan wouldn't get the scores he got today if he had Korean coaches and not Canadian.

56 minutes ago, Paskud said:

But I also think that Junhwan wouldn't get the scores he got today if he had Korean coaches and not Canadian.

This.

 

Also, I don’t get it. Do you people mean to tell me that despite being counted among top coaches, Orser has no influence whatsoever, unlike other western top coaches? Are you not counting him as a top coach? Is TCC just some obscure club? They might not be, hmm, let’s say, shady like other top coaches, but anyone who watched Yuna - Mao rivalry back in the day should be able to see precisely how well Orser plays the politics.

55 minutes ago, Paskud said:

I wouldn't be so sure about this one.

 

 

 

P.S. You really think that whether skater is coached by / gets choreo from known or unknown person doesn't influence judges?

Tbf, I don't think Brian takes part in any behind the stages shady shenanigans. But I also think that Junhwan wouldn't get the scores he got today if he had Korean coaches and not Canadian.

I don't know what influences judges (except the Eteri bump and NC's unwarranted scores) and maybe who coaches means something, but what it means, ultimately, is in how the skater skates.  If there was a top notch Korean coach at Brian's level, KSF would have kept Jun there and not sent him to Toronto in his early teens.  If Japan had a coach proven to help a skater with quads, Yuzu would not have wanted to go to TCC.

 

Read about what Jun has had to deal with in the past 20 months.  He hasn't had coaches at all, except for some, few middle of the night exchanges with Brian.  He didn't have anyone to videotape his practices so he could send those to Brian.  He has overcome a lot - and that's because of his effort, his practice, his tenacity.  In Korea, it is not figure skating that gets the attention - it's speed skating, and those athletes have ice time priority (when they've had access to rinks at all). In Japan, figure skating is far more revered and their skaters have had many advantages that the Korean skaters have not.  I think that some countries have been far easier to train in than either of those countries.            And, of course, Brian has not now or ever taken part in "behind the scene shenanigans". What is your issue with TCC and Brian Orser?

 

You insult Jun's hard work, his energy and dedication to his sport to impugn the score he got today.  The only flaw, really, was the long telegraph into his 3A.

14 minutes ago, barbara said:

The only flaw, really, was the long telegraph into his 3A.

And his 3Lze3Lo<, not called of course, for some reason.

 

Look, do I think Cha didn't work hard? No, I didn't. I am not trying to undermine his considerable effort.

But other skaters also work hard. This is a pandemic, every skaters are affected.

Cha did well today, but his score is that high (no call on that flawed combo, the cringy telegraphed 3A, and that he is apparently 2+pts better in PCS than Tomono) is influenced by who his coach is.

 

_______

What I think happen is many people have a TCC-tinted glasses, due to the fact that's where Yuzu (used to) trained. And so, things like this tends to be overlooked. This happens often. Many in this forum has special soft spot for many skaters from TCC, despite flaws in their technique.

 

Tbf, I must admit that Orser's subtle but rather blatant preference of Fernandez* back in the day tainted my own perception of TCC. (Where are my friends who are also dissatisfied by Orser's lukewarm PR-ing of Zu? I miss you all!)

 

*The most outrageous of this is the interview he and Tracy did back after PC, where he quite literally said that he consider Fernandez' achievements (2xWC, the numerous EC, and PC's bronze) to be the greatest thing TCC team ever achieved. Mind you, this is right after Yuzu won PC.

3 hours ago, barbara said:

I don't know what influences judges (except the Eteri bump and NC's unwarranted scores) and maybe who coaches means something, but what it means, ultimately, is in how the skater skates.  If there was a top notch Korean coach at Brian's level, KSF would have kept Jun there and not sent him to Toronto in his early teens.  If Japan had a coach proven to help a skater with quads, Yuzu would not have wanted to go to TCC.

 

Read about what Jun has had to deal with in the past 20 months.  He hasn't had coaches at all, except for some, few middle of the night exchanges with Brian.  He didn't have anyone to videotape his practices so he could send those to Brian.  He has overcome a lot - and that's because of his effort, his practice, his tenacity.  In Korea, it is not figure skating that gets the attention - it's speed skating, and those athletes have ice time priority (when they've had access to rinks at all). In Japan, figure skating is far more revered and their skaters have had many advantages that the Korean skaters have not.  I think that some countries have been far easier to train in than either of those countries.            And, of course, Brian has not now or ever taken part in "behind the scene shenanigans". What is your issue with TCC and Brian Orser?

 

You insult Jun's hard work, his energy and dedication to his sport to impugn the score he got today.  The only flaw, really, was the long telegraph into his 3A.

I'm not sure why the response is so emotional.^^"

When I said that Junhwan's SP is my favourite this season it was 100% honest.

No one here insults skaters more than judges. Tech panel was lenient af during whole competition. Almost nothing called. Kazuki had 4s< too, not called. Otoh Junhwan got 44.5 PCS and Kazuki less than 42 and I don't think it's a coincidence.

 

Also, please, do not assume so easily that Japanese skaters have sufficient practice. Only few get to train at private facilities.

Why this back and forth about who has worse even started, ffs. I know Junhwan had hard time during last 2 years.

 

And everybody train hard, that's not an argument.

Can we all take a step back and breathe in to take a moment and think about what we want to say and how we want to say it before we write any posts? I like the popcorn-moments but sometimes it gets uncomfortable to read. 

Kazuki is never the favourite of JSF since his novice era and those judges know it.

His current status in the team is the result of his hard work.

7 hours ago, yuzupon said:

 

Tbf, I must admit that Orser's subtle but rather blatant preference of Fernandez* back in the day tainted my own perception of TCC. (Where are my friends who are also dissatisfied by Orser's lukewarm PR-ing of Zu? I miss you all!)

I agree with you that Orser prefers Javi. I don't blame him, because it's clear Brian and Javi had a much better personal connection than Brian and Yuzu ever could. I don't think it's purely cultural; I think that's just Yuzu's personality. But ya, still. Sad for Yuzu.

6 hours ago, yuzupon said:

 

 

*The most outrageous of this is the interview he and Tracy did back after PC, where he quite literally said that he consider Fernandez' achievements (2xWC, the numerous EC, and PC's bronze) to be the greatest thing TCC team ever achieved. Mind you, this is right after Yuzu won PC.

 It's years ago, but since you brought it up, I never considered that as a problem and totally agree with the sentiment. Yuzu was always a diamond you find by chance, he just needed a little polish. Javi was more like an oyster that they had to dive to get, persuade it to open to find the pearl inside... which then needed polishing. The effort to bring the best out in each was a very different effort and journey. Yuzu's result was the greatest result they achieved, but the work with getting javi up there was the greatest thing they, as a team, ever achieved. 

 

And it's probably true that javi was favored, but more because he is open and wanted to communicate. Yuzu loves to be mysterious, as per javi, and he's so guarded with everyone, even on tour with fellow skaters. Cultural differences, maybe... personality differences, absolutely.