General Yuzuru Chat

[Perelandra]

The saddest outcome of this episode is that Yuzu may decide that future magazine appearances will not happen. This kind of excessive criticism may force Yuzu to re evaluate his life in the public eye which opens him up to intrusive scrutiny and unwarranted criticism. It would be a complete tragedy if Yuzu decides to withdraw from public life altogether, skating and all. Fans really will be bereft if Yuzu announces retirement because being a public figure is not worth the trouble that it causes

[Pammi]

 

 

Response from Aera above.

Opinion from me below so under spoiler....

Spoiler

 

EDIT - I have deleted my comment as I have read people's comments since writing it here and re-read the article - I hadnt really read the Ohtani comments properly, I agree it's ironic she does this when arguing from a supposedly feminist persepctive and how do we know what he will or wont do anyway! Also, I would prefer that she should not have used Yuzu as an example - because it's topical, I can see why she did, but she could have been critical of systems without using Yuzuru. She hasn't thought about the increased burden this will put on him after being seemingly sympathetic to how his environment has led to his feelings of being burdened.  The points about the impact on young male athletes of huge expectation , and the invisibility of women with the way things are done in relation to the "family register" I still think are valid - I myself noticed that Yuzuru used "I" in his statement and didn't include his partner - he could have maybe used "we" and talked about the happiness of forming a family together without revealing any details of who his partner is including their gender, but he did his best I am sure, and I am sure had the best of intentions.If it's cultural as well, he is just following the norm -  However, if this IS "normal" for marriage declarations, imo it could be changed so that it shows that the decision making is carried out by both partners. I have a feeling this may not be the usual case in Japan.

 

 

[Yuzuwinnie]

7 hours ago, Perelandra said:

Yes, correct, the same applied to opera with male countertenors, natural male sopranos, younger men whose voices weren't yet broken, and castrato sopranos taking the female roles (of course , the castrati's method of creation was appalling and the practice was eventually condemned, quite rightly) because the performing arts only allowed male performers. Historically, it was considered improper for women to perform on stage, so it was a necessity and an accepted cultural practice to have men play the roles. 

 

 

Reference to the French film: "FARINELLI"  https://www.premiere.fr/film/Farinelli  

[Perelandra]

6 minutes ago, Pammi said:

 

 

Response from Aera above.

Possibly an unpopular opinion from me below so under spoiler....

  Hide contents

Minori is writing from a feminist perspective - she has been doing a series on women - the timing is wrong due to the publication of Aera mag but I think she has some valid points. She also is not being critical of Yuzuru imo, rather she shows sympathy for the way he feels the huge burden of expectation on men.  The points she makes about the invisibility of the woman (I am still saying partner as Yuzu did not give any info about gender) are valid imo.  It is a shame to me that (mainly women) fans are being so furious about an issue that needs discussion in Japan - women in Japan are demanding that change themselves, it is not only me putting my own cultural values onto another society, though I admit we do see things through our own cultural lens of course.  I do not blame Yuzuru for any of this of course.  He can do a lot, but  he cant change society on his own, and may not want to for all I know.

 

 

Agree these issues are important. In which case, as a writer well known for their feminist views, she is well placed to write an article which demonstrates that it is evidence based and thoroughly researched, with citations and references. the article would most likely have been well received.

Please don't think that this is disagreement about whether or not articles about inequality should be written, of course they should and I have great respect for your vast knowledge base and opinions on the subject.

The disagreement comes from the use of an individual to get the message across. By using Yuzu as an example of poor behaviour towards women, which he has not exhibited in the past, the article comes across as defamatory, even if this was not the intention

[Pammi]

2 minutes ago, Perelandra said:

Agree these issues are important. In which case, as a writer well known for their feminist views, she is well placed to write an article which demonstrates that it is evidence based and thoroughly researched, with citations and references. the article would most likely have been well received.

Please don't think that this is disagreement about whether or not articles about inequality should be written, of course they should and I have great respect for your vast knowledge base and opinions on the subject.

The disagreement comes from the use of an individual to get the message across. By using Yuzu as an example of poor behaviour towards women, which he has not exhibited in the past, the article comes across as defamatory, even if this was not the intention

 

That's a very good point...

 

Spoiler

but I suppose the author might feel using such "evidence" helps get her point accross more successfully - however of course I don't want Yuzuru to be hurt, and he will be by this.  It's such a shame as I said, this is an issue that needs open discussion in Japan for the sake of women, girls....and men too.

 

[snowy]

Excuse me but why no one considers that this might be his wife's decision and desire to not be known to the public? Could you imagine the level of discomfort (even alienation) that she is going to receive wherever she goes? This is a big adjustment for her than him especially if she is not a public figure. Maybe she needs more time to learn how to deal with the fans, press, and public. Maybe she decided never to go through the burden of being in the public eye altogether. It is no one's place (let it be a reporter or a fan) to assume his wife is an empty vessel that only follows her husband's decisions for her life. Such an assumption is not feminism but rather contrary.

[Perelandra]

13 minutes ago, Pammi said:

 

That's a very good point...

 

  Hide contents

but I suppose the author might feel using such "evidence" helps get her point accross more successfully - however of course I don't want Yuzuru to be hurt, and he will be by this.  It's such a shame as I said, this is an issue that needs open discussion in Japan for the sake of women, girls....and men too.

 

From past behaviour I would stick my neck out and defend Yuzu stating that Yuzu has not shown himself to have chauvinist feelings before. There must be public figures who have shown negative attitude and or behaviour towards women that she could have cited. It was a poorly written article imho

 

[rockstaryuzu]

Spoiler

20 minutes ago, Pammi said:

this is an issue that needs open discussion in Japan for the sake of women, girls....and men too.

 

Thoughts:

Spoiler

Agree with you that there's a discussion that needs to be had. Not quite sure that Yuzu is the most useful case study for such discussion, and I'm left wondering what the writer hoped to accomplish.

 

One interesting thing in all this is that Yuzu's simple one line declaration that he's registering his family is turning out to be a kind of Rorschach test of all his fans and followers. He's said almost nothing at all about his decision to get married, and yet look at all the meaning and significance people have projected onto it. Is 'Yuzuru Hanyu' - the public image of him - really such an enigma that people who look at him.only see what they want to see? 

 

 

[ZuCritter]

23 minutes ago, snowy said:

Excuse me but why no one considers that this might be his wife's decision and desire to not be known to the public? Could you imagine the level of discomfort (even alienation) that she is going to receive wherever she goes? This is a big adjustment for her than him especially if she is not a public figure. Maybe she needs more time to learn how to deal with the fans, press, and public. Maybe she decided never to go through the burden of being in the public eye altogether. It is no one's place (let it be a reporter or a fan) to assume his wife is an empty vessel that only follows her husband's decisions for her life. Such an assumption is not feminism but rather contrary.

So true. So on point. Given the scrutiny she will surely face and the hostility she will likely face, if only from a few twisted souls, it's entirely understandable if she would rather remain unknown. I assume that it was a joint decision.

 

Even if Yuzu's own feelings on the matter weighed heavily into their choice, we must remember what happened when a tabloid reported, falsely, that he was dating a young woman he'd gone to school with. She suffered all sorts of abuse, and Yuzu talked about how deeply it troubled him -- to the point that he questioned whether he wanted to remain alive.

 

That incident alone blows a huge hole in the supposition that he made a unilateral choice based on some sort of misogynistic impulse. He knows what it is to live in the public eye, he's endured all manner of vicious attacks. Why would he want the woman he loves to suffer the same? That's not some patriarchal over-reach, it's a well-founded, considerate position based on personal experience. If she were the ultra-famous one, they might make the choice to shield his identity for the very same reasons.

 

Basta!

[Yuzu_legend]

Dear fellow Satellites

 

Let's go to the SharePractice video and leave nice comments!

If you have Twitter, please take 5 minutes of your time to share and celebrate too!! 

 

 

 

[tsubasanoyume]

this article is not about feminism, it's about how to pick on every Hanyu word... however he put it, it would be bad. it's clearly in very end on words about comparison with Otani.

[airi]

'Feminism'? Seriously, it makes me so angry that someone feels like it's ok to have such opinions on something that 1) was most likely mutual decision of two involved people 2) is not anyone's business. I'm surprised he said anything at all.

[Kizuna]

Hmm, rather than making the marriage all about himself as the writer claims, I think most of us would have interpreted the emphasis on continuing to skate in the marriage announcement to be Yuzu's way of reassuring us that he is not going anywhere, nothing is changing, and that we would continue seeing him skate. That was the biggest relief to me in that announcement. I honestly have no idea how someone could even come up with that kind of interpretation.

 

And as everyone has said already, the writer doesn't even know Yuzu's partner's opinion on this matter, but is writing a whole article based on their own assumptions and interpretations. I also think the style of this announcement is quite common for famous people.

 

Also, we don't have to look too far, kind reminder that Shizuka Arakawa has also never revealed the identity of her husband. 

[Yuzuwinnie]

1 hour ago, Perelandra said:

From my past behavior, I would stick my neck out and defend Yuzu by stating that Yuzu had never been chauvinistic before. There must be public figures who have shown a negative attitude and/or behavior towards women that she could have cited. It was a poorly written article in my humble opinion

 

 

1 hour ago, rockstaryuzu said:

  Reveal hidden content

 

Thoughts:

  Hide content

Je suis d'accord avec vous qu'il y a une discussion à avoir. Je ne suis pas tout à fait sûr que Yuzu soit l'étude de cas la plus utile pour une telle discussion, et je me demande ce que l'écrivain espérait accomplir.

 

Une chose intéressante dans tout cela est que la simple déclaration d'une ligne de Yuzu selon laquelle il enregistre sa famille s'avère être une sorte de test de Rorschach de tous ses fans et followers. Il n'a presque rien dit sur sa décision de se marier, et pourtant, regardez tout le sens et l'importance que les gens y ont projetés. « Yuzuru Hanyu » - son image publique - est-il vraiment une telle énigme que les gens qui le regardent ne voient que ce qu'ils veulent voir ? 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, ZuCritter said:

Tellement vrai. Donc sur le point. Compte tenu de l'examen auquel elle sera sûrement confrontée et de l'hostilité à laquelle elle sera probablement confrontée, ne serait-ce que de la part de quelques âmes tordues, il est tout à fait compréhensible qu'elle préfère rester inconnue. Je suppose que c'était une décision conjointe.

 

Même si les propres sentiments de Yuzu à ce sujet ont pesé lourd dans leur choix, il faut se souvenir de ce qui s'est passé lorsqu'un tabloïd a rapporté, à tort, qu'il sortait avec une jeune femme avec qui il était allé à l'école. Elle a subi toutes sortes d'abus, et Yuzu a expliqué à quel point cela le troublait – au point qu'il s'est demandé s'il voulait rester en vie.

 

Cet incident à lui seul fait sauter un trou énorme dans la supposition qu'il a fait un choix unilatéral basé sur une sorte d'impulsion misogyne. Il sait ce que c'est que de vivre aux yeux du public, il a enduré toutes sortes d'attaques vicieuses. Pourquoi voudrait-il que la femme qu'il aime souffre de la même manière ? Ce n'est pas une portée patriarcale excessive, c'est une position bien fondée et prévenante basée sur l'expérience personnelle. Si elle était la plus célèbre, ils pourraient choisir de protéger son identité pour les mêmes raisons.

 

Basta !

 

 

1 hour ago, tsubasanoyume said:

cet article n'est pas sur le féminisme, il s'agit de savoir comment choisir chaque mot Hanyu... peu importe comment il l'a dit, ce serait mauvais. c'est clairement à la fin des mots sur la comparaison avec Otani.

 

 

1 hour ago, airi said:

'Féminisme'? Sérieusement, cela me met tellement en colère que quelqu'un ait l'impression que c'est normal d'avoir de telles opinions sur quelque chose qui 1) était très probablement une décision mutuelle de deux personnes impliquées 2) n'est l'affaire de personne. Je suis surpris qu'il ait dit quoi que ce soit.

 

55 minutes ago, Kizuna said:

Hmm, rather than doing the wedding on his own as the writer claims, I think most of us would have interpreted the focus on the pursuit of skating in the wedding announcement as Yuzu's way of reassure us that he will not go anywhere, nothing changes, and that we will continue to see him skate. This was the biggest relief for me in this announcement. Honestly, I have no idea how anyone could even come up with that kind of interpretation.

 

And as everyone has already said, the writer doesn't even know Yuzu's partner's opinion on this, but writes an entire article based on his own assumptions and interpretations. I also think the style of this ad is quite common for famous people.

 

Also, don't look too far, a kind reminder that Shizuka Arakawa has by the way never revealed the identity of her husband. 

 

 

I'm really confused reading you : but what is this "text"? : I don''t have any social networks and from what I understand, it's not good at all and I smell like a kind of "unhealthy rag" and I think I typed in the right place!? and it's a kind of ill-founded attack in fact?? 

1 hour ago, Yuzu_legend said:

Dear Satellite Friends

 

Let's go to the SharePractice video and leave some nice comments !

If you have Twitter, please take 5 minutes of your time to share and celebrate too!! 

 

 

 

 

 

OK for this and I did it on his YT  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY3dlxt9MvQ&t=3753s   from the 110,000 comments

 

[SuzyQ]

1 時間前, snowyさんが言いました:

Excuse me but why no one considers that this might be his wife's decision and desire to not be known to the public? Could you imagine the level of discomfort (even alienation) that she is going to receive wherever she goes? This is a big adjustment for her than him especially if she is not a public figure. Maybe she needs more time to learn how to deal with the fans, press, and public. Maybe she decided never to go through the burden of being in the public eye altogether. It is no one's place (let it be a reporter or a fan) to assume his wife is an empty vessel that only follows her husband's decisions for her life. Such an assumption is not feminism but rather contrary.

 

I totally agree with you. It is difficult for me to believe that the person Yuzuru has chosen as his spouse is just the submissive type who does not have her own opinions.

 

Spoiler

This is just my personal opinion, so forget about it if you like, but honestly speaking, I do not like this lady, Minori Kitahara, as I have read some of what she wrote before and never agreed with her opinions. She claims to be a feminist, but her views are frequently one-sided, and I often suspect that she is just prejudiced towards men and traditions including marriage system.  As to the article this time, I thought it is one-sided again, without any firm theory or evidence (of course not, because there is little information), and Ms. Kitahara is assuming Yuzuru's wife is the submissive type to men. 

 

AERA, Asahi Shimbun and TV Asahi are in the same group, and they are liberal media to say the least, and their articles and writers are often controversial.  I am rather conservative type, so basically their editorial policy does not match my ideas. But, their articles/programs about figure skating are excellent, so I cannot ignore them 

 

Anyway the article this time has provoked so much anger among fans and even those who are not particular Yuzu fans.