General Yuzuru Chat

[TallyT]

You gotta laugh... the Olympic Channel decided to tweet a 'Who's your favourite?' for Bobblehead (???) Day and to no one's surprise (including, no doubt theirs), guess who was runaway winner yet again.....

 

 

[Paskud]

6 hours ago, holina said:

Not sure how to embed Instagram but here is the link:
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJyU-r1JoNe/?igshid=ocb19q34o8r8

 Similarly:

 

 
Is the Heaven and Earth costume colour scheme intentional this way?!  His galaxy brain!!
 

Beijing Olympic Rink

Spoiler

https://www.chinanews.com/ty/2020/12-26/9371739.shtml

 

[Henni147]

Sorry that this post is so extremely long, but I couldn't shorten it 

 

First of all, to call a program with four quads and two triple Axels 'watered down' is... a choice. Especially in case of a first pancake.

Sure, Yuzu didn't jump any Lutzes or Flips this time, but his base value was not that much higher at SC last year. 2-3 points difference at best.

1. He clearly didn't need a higher base value to win JNats.
2. He needed a clean free again to boost his PCS (his last one was in 2017) and this layout was ideal to do it.
3. Everyone who thinks that Yuzu will not up his BV in future competitions, is a moron.

 

On 1/8/2021 at 5:27 PM, makebelieveup said:

The standard should always be a balanced program with intentional and valuable transitions and choreo, which have been found throughout all of Yuzu's programs. With TenChi I'd say its not its final craft but nowhere near lacking either. In fact, it is one of his most, if not his most complete first pancake.

He was not doing ten thousand choreos or movements because that isnt how the music should be interpreted. Having more breathing room and where he planted each jump are all part of a good composition to match the music.

 

Very big yes to that. Having many difficult steps and turns alone doesn't make your transition work good. Their effective and logical distribution, quality of execution and matching with the music are equally important.

Same goes for skating skills: Having high average and top speed are just two of many quality criteria. You also need very good acceleration and dynamics in speed, multidirectional skating, clean edges, as much one-foot skating as possible, excellent balance and control of movements and much more.

 

A big issue is: People tend to think that skating quality increases proportionally with the tempo of the music. This is downright wrong. Fast music and fast skating are two completely different things. Yuzu has probably more speed in Notte Stellata than some skaters would have while skating to Origin.

My general perception is: The faster the pacing of the music is, the sloppier tends to be the quality of edges and execution of single transitions. Some skaters even choose fast paced music on purpose to cover their poor skating quality.

 

I think, Notte Stellata is the slowest music piece Yuzu has ever skated to, but his performance in PyeongChang was probably one of his best in terms of skating skills and transitioning. Excellent body control, very clean edges and beautiful long gliding sections on one foot. That circle at the beginning or the accelerating twizzle with 10 rotations are just two of many indicators of how strong his skating skills are.

 

H&E might not be as polished as some of his other programs yet, but the skating quality is definitely there and I disagree with the statement that his skating skills have degressed compared to Origin. They didn't, it's the pacing and intensity of the music piece that has changed in the first place.

 

 

Quote

I think without following Yuzu and understanding he will never be complacent with his own craft, ppl may easily think this is a "watered down" program.

Saying Yuzu is doing exactly what Nathan is doing now even if I know Jesse meant well and in favor of yuzu is still just plain wrong..Really? 

 

In a way, Yuzu is now indeed doing what Nathan has been doing all the time: making ideal use of his energy resources and not wasting them for things that don't get rewarded, which is - honestly speaking - very clever and the key to success in this system.

 

A figure skating program has basically three components that are all energy consuming to some extent:

1. Jumping (and spinning)
2. Raw skating
3. Performing

I can be competely wrong here, but my personal impression is:

Nathan's general energy distribution is roughly like: 70% jumping - 15% skating - 15% performing.

While Yuzu's distribution in Origin was like: 40% jumping - 20% skating - 40% performing.

In H&E the (physical) distribution has changed: 60% jumping - 25% skating - 15% performing.

 

The real cleverness of the H&E choreo is that Yuzu's performance and investment into the music is not less, just more cognitive and intellectual than physical. That gives him a lot of breathing room and additional resources for jumping and skating.

 

I do believe that dramatic music pieces like R&J1, Origin or Masquerade are the real "energy devourers" in figure skating. Remember R&J1 at CiONTU or Masquerade with Origin encore at FaOI in Toyama? Yuzu barely jumped, but almost spat his heart out after those performances. As if he was skating for his life.

Emotional intensity and passion can completely suck out your power before you have done a single jump. I think, this is what happened in Origin. That starting pose alone must have been exhausting and uncomfortable as hell. It was a suicidal program and unskatable with 5 or 6 quads.

 

 

This is my current impression of the situation. Please feel free to correct me, if my post is nonsense.

[Melodie]

So according to this, Yuzu did enlist Yano-san for help with the music arrangement. Maybe for fine-tuning this time (esp. with the FP)?

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

[Melodie]

9 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

Sorry that this post is so extremely long, but I couldn't shorten it 

 

First of all, to call a program with four quads and two triple Axels 'watered down' is... a choice. Especially in case of a first pancake.

Sure, Yuzu didn't jump any Lutzes or Flips this time, but his base value was not that much higher at SC last year. 2-3 points difference at best.

1. He clearly didn't need a higher base value to win JNats.
2. He needed a clean free again to boost his PCS (his last one was in 2017) and this layout was ideal to do it.
3. Everyone who thinks that Yuzu will not up his BV in future competitions, is a moron.

Very big yes to that. Having many difficult steps and turns alone doesn't make your transition work good. Their effective and logical distribution, quality of execution and matching with the music are equally important.

Same goes for skating skills: Having high average and top speed are just two of many quality criteria. You also need very good acceleration and dynamics in speed, multidirectional skating, clean edges, as much one-foot skating as possible, excellent balance and control of movements and much more.

 

A big issue is: People tend to think that skating quality increases proportionally with the tempo of the music. This is downright wrong. Fast music and fast skating are two completely different things. Yuzu has probably more speed in Notte Stellata than some skaters would have while skating to Origin.

My general perception is: The faster the pacing of the music is, the sloppier tends to be the quality of edges and execution of single transitions. Some skaters even choose fast paced music on purpose to cover their poor skating quality.

 

I think, Notte Stellata is the slowest music piece Yuzu has ever skated to, but his performance in PyeongChang was probably one of his best in terms of skating skills and transitioning. Excellent body control, very clean edges and beautiful long gliding sections on one foot. That circle at the beginning or the accelerating twizzle with 10 rotations are just two of many indicators of how strong his skating skills are.

 

H&E might not be as polished as some of his other programs yet, but the skating quality is definitely there and I disagree with the statement that his skating skills have degressed compared to Origin. They didn't, it's the pacing and intensity of the music piece that has changed in the first place.

 

 

 

In a way, Yuzu is now indeed doing what Nathan has been doing all the time: making ideal use of his energy resources and not wasting them for things that don't get rewarded, which is - honestly speaking - very clever and the key to success in this system.

 

A figure skating program has basically three components that are all energy consuming to some extent:

1. Jumping (and spinning)
2. Raw skating
3. Performing

I can be competely wrong here, but my personal impression is:

Nathan's general energy distribution is roughly like: 70% jumping - 15% skating - 15% performing.

While Yuzu's distribution in Origin was like: 40% jumping - 20% skating - 40% performing.

In H&E the (physical) distribution has changed: 60% jumping - 25% skating - 15% performing.

 

The real cleverness of the H&E choreo is that Yuzu's performance and investment into the music is not less, just more cognitive and intellectual than physical. That gives him a lot of breathing room and additional resources for jumping and skating.

 

I do believe that dramatic music pieces like R&J1, Origin or Masquerade are the real "energy devourers" in figure skating. Remember R&J1 at CiONTU or Masquerade with Origin encore at FaOI in Toyama? Yuzu barely jumped, but almost spat his heart out after those performances. As if he was skating for his life.

Emotional intensity and passion can completely suck out your power before you have done a single jump. I think, this is what happened in Origin. That starting pose alone must have been exhausting and uncomfortable as hell. It was a suicidal program and unskatable with 5 or 6 quads.

 

 

This is my current impression of the situation. Please feel free to correct me, if my post is nonsense.

Your post makes perfect sense  

 

I think I did say H&E (the first outing) was a watered down version in the jumping department, but only very slightly (without the Flip and Lutz) and that is according to Yuzu's standard. Upon thinking back, watering down may not be the rightest choice of words. Sorry if saying so makes you feel unease  

 

Surely when he intentionally left out both the Flip and Lutz (I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with that), his super brain (and literal calculator that he made) would have calculated to optimize the score. 

 

For sure, he will upgrade the technical aspect the next time he gets to show it in a competition. And I look forward to that. 

 

As for the SS, CO and TR of H&E, I completely agree with you. 

 

[Melodie]

 

Detective Fanyus strike again 

[Henni147]

9 minutes ago, Melodie said:

I think I did say H&E (the first outing) was a watered down version in the jumping department, but only very slightly (without the Flip and Lutz) and that is according to Yuzu's standard. Upon thinking back, watering down may not be the rightest choice of words. Sorry if saying so makes you feel unease

 

It's totally fine, I know what you all mean by saying 'watered down' content.

 

I just stopped using this term myself, because it doesn't feel appropriate. If Yuzu jumped 2 quads in the first half and the rest all triples, that would be 'watered down' in my book. But 4 quads including 4Lo and two backloaded 4T-combos is not exactly my understanding of 'watered down'.

 

Especially these eye rolling narratives like Yuzu has "given up on difficult jumps" made me avoid using this term for the time being.

[Yuzu_legend]

 

Ice rink in China 

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

[SuzyQ]

He is just standing 

 

 

[SitTwizzle]

10 hours ago, Henni147 said:

A figure skating program has basically three components that are all energy consuming to some extent:

1. Jumping (and spinning)
2. Raw skating
3. Performing

I can be competely wrong here, but my personal impression is:

Nathan's general energy distribution is roughly like: 70% jumping - 15% skating - 15% performing.

While Yuzu's distribution in Origin was like: 40% jumping - 20% skating - 40% performing.

In H&E the (physical) distribution has changed: 60% jumping - 25% skating - 15% performing.

 

This is extremely interesting! How a clear mind can make things, well, clear and readable.

I really don't know what amount of energy Nathan Chen puts in what he does perform at great championships, but it occurred to me that his skating, for the same steps, was more energy-consuming than Yuzuru Hanyu's or Jason Brown's or others; and above all, more focus-consuming because they are not fully internalised yet, it's really a pity he projects to r..re after Beijing. Many thanks to Brian Orser, to Tracy Wilson and to his previous coaches, and to his accepting their advice : he now can do extremely tricky steps with a wonderful flow for a minimal energy and probably a reasonable focus (I'm sure he has at least two "thinking streams" going on when he's skating). Yet they remain exhausting, as his choice is to have such full programs, and I think you are right also in suggesting he must have calculated all the pace of this program, to allow him to have the best jumps, while being even more meaningful than his previous ones; which may not have been a primary focus in other programs, particularly in Origin. And his performing is so wonderful in H&E, I thought maybe the best, but you must be right too in guessing it must be less energy-consuming than in Origin. I think too, his most exhausting (and enthralling) skating part was for LGC, which was at the same time so high in jumps, I am still incredulous every time I rewatch it.

 

As to Notte Stellata, I hadn't thought about its consuming of energy, but I had for Haru yo, Koi! (thank you for having put it online without clapping) and while most often I just watch the poetry of this cherry blossom going by the wind, I also watch it sometimes more for the speed, the steps, the accelerations, etc and it is just as astounding. That's a sign of genius after all : you watch a masterpiece and you can dissect it as much as you want, when you watch it again it is fresh as new.

 

I confess I feel a bit awkward with the expression "first pancake". Nationals H&E is much better than that.

 

And, as to his skipping Lutzes and Flips, I feel more "prosaic" and tend to think he simply avoids the steps which recovery need more physiotherapy, because at the moment, he cannot access physiotherapy. As to know if he can have some before Worlds, I really don't (if there are Worlds). As you all say, he didn't need them to win here, so why endangering his health and a clean skate?

[SuzyQ]

21 時間前, yuzuangelさんが言いました:

will it be on youtube?

 

Here it is.  Thank you for the uploader.

It was a news clip length though 

 

 

This post has been tagged by yuzuangel as [NEWS].

[Henni147]

34 minutes ago, SitTwizzle said:

I confess I feel a bit awkward with the expression "first pancake". Nationals H&E is much better than that.

 

Yup, I agree. LMEY and H&E were both skated too well to be labeled as "first pancakes".

The fact that people see them as potential Oly winners after one competition already (especially H&E), speaks volumes about their quality.

[river]

10 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

 

Yup, I agree. LMEY and H&E were both skated too well to be labeled as "first pancakes".

The fact that people see them as potential Oly winners already (especially H&E), speaks volumes about their quality.

 

Hey, sometimes pancakes turn out like this...

 

 

...and sometimes they turn out like this.

 

 

Yuzu just made a stack of near-perfect "first pancakes" this season.

[rockstaryuzu]

As regards the content of H&E: on first watch, I also thought that Yuzu wasn't doing as much in the program as we're used to seeing him do. I don't want to use the term 'empty' , but there is definitely space in it. Breathing room. 

 

After reading what others have said about this and reflecting on it, I think the reason why it looks kind of sparse might be because, for the last umpteen seasons, Yuzu has been using programs that are absolutely packed to the brim with SO MUCH stuff that they're literally breathless. Origin had him doing something literally every beat of the music. 4CC Seimei was a jam-packed 4min 30sec program condensed down to an even more dense 4min. Even H&L is full. 

 

Yuzu hasn't done a free skate program with breathing room in it for a long, long time. It doesn't mean the program is lacking in any way. It just means there's space in it. 

[rockstaryuzu]

27 minutes ago, river said:

 

Hey, sometimes pancakes turn out like this...

 

 

...and sometimes they turn out like this.

 

 

Yuzu just made a stack of near-perfect "first pancakes" this season.

And now I'm  hungry.