General Yuzuru Chat

[SitTwizzle]

22 hours ago, memae said:

 

My opinion is perhaps less my opinion as a native English speaker and more an opinion informed by a background in linguistics (I'm not currently working as a linguist though, other than a bit of moonlighting in research I can't do while Covid19 has everything shut down).

 

His intonation is pretty good. English isn't an easy language to grasp when it comes to intonation - we have so much meaning encoded in all the 'music' that it's difficult to get the knack for it. In some languages, speaking melodically in a way similar to English comes across as feminine, so it can be a bit of a trying time for guys to learn English intonation. Yuzu's is good. He uses it appropriately for emphasis and for different communicative functions. It's just a bit clouded by his pronunciation - he has trouble with phonemes (the smallest bits of sound - for Japanese speakers /r/ and /l/ are often the most noticeable troubles) and with syllables. Japanese does not heavily focus on a syllable structure so much as another way of breaking words up called mora. I think this might impact where he places the stress on English words with multiple syllables (basically, in long words in English there's always one syllable that's 'bigger' than the others) and that can interfere with intonation at the sentence level a bit but overall his is good. 

 

As a side note on the English intonatation = feminine thing, I find it very interesting that a lot of men who speak English as a second language and an Asian language as their mother tongue, speak English with a higher pitch than their native language. I wonder if it's a mechanism for trying to get that intonation correct and since English is so sing-song, they use a voice that is kind of 'singing'. I specifically say Asian first language because I first noticed this teaching students from Korea and China, and then also noticed it among guys who speak Indonesian, Malay, or Javanese as first languages. It might be a general thing across second languages. It might be more specific to English as a second language. It's just something I've observed over the years and found interesting but never pursued in research.

Thank you soo much for all these informations.

I didn't know about mora and tried to catch it in the examples you gave, it gives me a new vision of Japanese language yet I don't manage to find it intuitive, which proves I was wrong in my hearing, for instance of the songs he skates on. I should maybe watch them again. Just to try to hear the songs more accurately of course. ;-)

Yuzuru Hanyu's rs and ls I find particularly pleasant to hear.

I didn't know so many Asian languages had different ways of speaking for men and women, I thought it was a Japanese specificity. And had never thought about how native Japanese speakers could perceive Western languages, "gender-wise". Really interesting.

It reminds the (probably apocryphal) words of Emperor Charles V : "I speak Spanish to God, French to men, Italian to women and German to my horse (or : to my enemies, there are other variants)."

 

Edit : I did watch Hana ni Nare. It didn't work. After two sentences reading both Japanese (Latin alphabet) and English subtitles, and trying to "cut" the Japanese words, I couldn't get my eyes off him. I'm so far from being as clever and quick as him. ;-)

[rockstaryuzu]

3 hours ago, memae said:

 

My opinion is perhaps less my opinion as a native English speaker and more an opinion informed by a background in linguistics (I'm not currently working as a linguist though, other than a bit of moonlighting in research I can't do while Covid19 has everything shut down).

 

His intonation is pretty good. English isn't an easy language to grasp when it comes to intonation - we have so much meaning encoded in all the 'music' that it's difficult to get the knack for it. In some languages, speaking melodically in a way similar to English comes across as feminine, so it can be a bit of a trying time for guys to learn English intonation. Yuzu's is good. He uses it appropriately for emphasis and for different communicative functions. It's just a bit clouded by his pronunciation - he has trouble with phonemes (the smallest bits of sound - for Japanese speakers /r/ and /l/ are often the most noticeable troubles) and with syllables. Japanese does not heavily focus on a syllable structure so much as another way of breaking words up called mora. I think this might impact where he places the stress on English words with multiple syllables (basically, in long words in English there's always one syllable that's 'bigger' than the others) and that can interfere with intonation at the sentence level a bit but overall his is good. 

 

As a side note on the English intonatation = feminine thing, I find it very interesting that a lot of men who speak English as a second language and an Asian language as their mother tongue, speak English with a higher pitch than their native language. I wonder if it's a mechanism for trying to get that intonation correct and since English is so sing-song, they use a voice that is kind of 'singing'. I specifically say Asian first language because I first noticed this teaching students from Korea and China, and then also noticed it among guys who speak Indonesian, Malay, or Javanese as first languages. It might be a general thing across second languages. It might be more specific to English as a second language. It's just something I've observed over the years and found interesting but never pursued in research.

I've noticed it as well. Frankly, I prefer Yuzu's Japanese voice because it sounds more natural and relaxed. 

 

The higher pitch could be due to the nervousness that comes with speaking a second language. I've noticed that when I try to speak in a language other than English, I tend to squeak a bit. My chest and vocal chords will tighten up because I'm not comfortable, and that forces my voice to a higher pitch. 

[mokjakarma]

38 minutes ago, Veveco said:

 

It was 4CC. People commented that the translator wasn't the best.

Oh yeah that too. I was thinking about GPF press cons where he answered all English questions in English himself. At the time his translator was having some difficulties (maybe nerves from having to translate for an elite athlete?). And then we had the 4CC translator. 

 

Yuzu deserves the kind of translators he had during his FCCJ press conferences. Those ladies were just amazing and impressive with how they conveyed Yuzu's messages without losing to much of the actual meaning of his words.

[mercedes]

34 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

I've noticed it as well. Frankly, I prefer Yuzu's Japanese voice because it sounds more natural and relaxed. 

 

The higher pitch could be due to the nervousness that comes with speaking a second language. I've noticed that when I try to speak in a language other than English, I tend to squeak a bit. My chest and vocal chords will tighten up because I'm not comfortable, and that forces my voice to a higher pitch. 

I do the opposite I tend to wishper LOL

not a native English speaker of course and I don’t know Japanese but I have the feeling that as you all said he probably doesn’t feel sure enough with a richer vocabulary.

he has a very High level of comprehension instead even when those speaking have hard accents or so I think.
then how much English is spoken in Japan?here just from American movies and Uk/American music we heard it a lot so we are a little bit better at speaking ,even if just a a very basic level.
(then of course we are shameless and we comunicate somehow LOL )

[FlyingCamel]

I’ve been rewatching this recently and wondering... how is that lucky lady at 4:08 who caught his shirt? Does she still keep the shirt? How did she feel being the owner of the shirt and watching him grow from a promising young talent into the GOAT? 
And of course the iconic “Ladies and Gentlemen, we are going to take a brief intermission before Yuzuru Hanyu loses all his clothing!” is hilarious and never gets old XD

 

And yes at 4CC Yuzuru was doing an amazing job being his own translator!

 

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, FlyingCamel said:

how is that lucky lady at 4:08 who caught his shirt?

After she was revived, you mean? although Yuzu is so young here that the program comes across more as cheeky and fun than sexy. If he were to do this one today he'd be melting the ice and setting the boards ablaze...

[river]

50 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

After she was revived, you mean? although Yuzu is so young here that the program comes across more as cheeky and fun than sexy. If he were to do this one today he'd be melting the ice and setting the boards ablaze...

 

If he were to skate this now, there would be riots. You know what the crush for seats at ACI is like, and that's just for a spot in an small venue that has no bad seats. Can you imagine what would happen if Yuzu's sweaty, freshly-skated-in-and-then-autographed shirt went flying into a crowd these days?  (I'm saying this like I wouldn't be in the fray. We all know I'd be shamelessly elbowing people out of the way, provided I wasn't still unconscious from the effects of an all-grown-up HILY...)

 

_{But like... do the trashbag pants even fit now? Inquiring minds want to know...}

[Melodie]

16 hours ago, Kat said:

Has anyone here ever met or interacted with anyone who could...kind of...be a poster child for why other skating fans look down on Yuzuru or his fans? I did. I had to leave the conversation.

 

Side note: I have been absent way too long and am so many pages behind 😅

I have. Not just fans of Yuzu but also fans of certain other skaters. Like they are just so, what's the word, condescending? And some are frankly delusional and full of double standard as well.

[Veveco]

36 minutes ago, river said:

But like... do the trashbag pants even fit now? Inquiring minds want to know...

 

Depends on how the "bulking for 4A" is going 

[rockstaryuzu]

38 minutes ago, river said:

 

If he were to skate this now, there would be riots. You know what the crush for seats at ACI is like, and that's just for a spot in an small venue that has no bad seats. Can you imagine what would happen if Yuzu's sweaty, freshly-skated-in-and-then-autographed shirt went flying into a crowd these days?  (I'm saying this like I wouldn't be in the fray. We all know I'd be shamelessly elbowing people out of the way, provided I wasn't still unconscious from the effects of an all-grown-up HILY...)

 

_{But like... do the trashbag pants even fit now? Inquiring minds want to know...}

There's a reason he does stuff like the towel tease, (you know the one, from FaOI, when he pretended he would toss his face towel into the audience), rather than actually throw stuff. 

 

Of course the pants still fit. Remember CiONTU? He fit into all those old costumes. However, I'm sure they're a lot less baggy now, he's put on so much muscle.

[rockstaryuzu]

2 minutes ago, Veveco said:

 

Depends on how the "bulking for 4A" is going 

I thought that was only his upper body.

 

 

[TallyT]

3 hours ago, Melodie said:

I have. Not just fans of Yuzu but also fans of certain other skaters. Like they are just so, what's the word, condescending? And some are frankly delusional and full of double standard as well.

 

The thing is, yes, Yuzu does have a lunatic fringe in his fandom. So does every other major skater and pretty much every other fandom, whether sporting, media or whatever. And in my experience most tend to be more or less the same percentage of the whole (with some exceptions, of course)

 

But Yuzu is so popular that his lunatic fringe alone is bigger than any other male skater's whole fandom.  Even Shoma and Takahashi, and definitely more than say Patrick or Nathan or Boyang.  What the naysayers don't like to acknowledge is that the good and wellbehaved and appreciative percentage of Yuzuru's fan body is way way more huge than pretty much anyone's this millenium except Yuna: that without them, the men would all be skating in emptier rinks and all to far less cheering and applause.  The commentators have noted quite often that the Japanese fans are there for Yuzu - and Shoma - but cheer the rest with way more enthusiasm than most other group could manage (witness the Russian fans at Sochi)

 

Also... to put it bluntly - the taste of the sour grapes must be unpleasant for them.

[Geo1]

3 hours ago, river said:

 

If he were to skate this now, there would be riots. You know what the crush for seats at ACI is like, and that's just for a spot in an small venue that has no bad seats. Can you imagine what would happen if Yuzu's sweaty, freshly-skated-in-and-then-autographed shirt went flying into a crowd these days?  (I'm saying this like I wouldn't be in the fray. We all know I'd be shamelessly elbowing people out of the way, provided I wasn't still unconscious from the effects of an all-grown-up HILY...)

 

_{But like... do the trashbag pants even fit now? Inquiring minds want to know...}

 

Let’s not forget that a 20-year-old Yuzu did reprise “Hello, I Love You” at the 2015 Fantasy on Ice in Shizuoka, including tossing his sweat soaked T-shirt into the audience.

 

 

[rockstaryuzu]

59 minutes ago, Geo1 said:

 

Let’s not forget that a 20-year-old Yuzu did reprise “Hello, I Love You” at the 2015 Fantasy on Ice in Shizuoka, including tossing his sweat soaked T-shirt into the audience.

 

 

I had forgotten. Bless you for reminding me. 

 

Looks like he updated the choreo for this version. 

 

And we can clearly see that the trashbag pants have become more, uh, ...tailored... in fit. 

 

[river]

1 hour ago, Geo1 said:

 

Let’s not forget that a 20-year-old Yuzu did reprise “Hello, I Love You” at the 2015 Fantasy on Ice in Shizuoka, including tossing his sweat soaked T-shirt into the audience.

 

 

Oh, trust me, this is the HILY performance I’m referencing any time I talk about how much I like this program. I found the video on a Youtube search one day not long after PC (thinking “hey, I liked that guy who won! I wonder what other programs he’s done...”) and it had an embarrassingly large part to play in me becoming a Yuzu fan. I was shocked that this is the same skater that gave us Ballade.