General Yuzuru Chat

[4Nessie]

8 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

 

 

 

I am only amazed, someone dares to argue with Max. 

[shanshani]

Anyone who is going to a future competition or has good jump footage from ACI, please contribute to our crowd sourced technical camera project

 

^{I am so serious about this that I will put it in my signature so everyone will be reminded to shoot footage of jumps}

[Pammi]

29 minutes ago, Henni147 said:

Reactions: Boost US and Russian skaters with massive scores

I'm just thinking about this, and am certainly no expert at all on the matter (just a bit wary of conspiracy theories ....although of course conspiricies do happen!), but this relies on all judges being corrupt, doesn't it? and all Tech controllers? - is this really what we believe is happening? If this was really the case I would expect someone with principles and a love of the sport to whistleblow, knowing that such an approach was being promoted by those in powerful positions.  Also, figure skating is a really small world - the judges probably have links with many others in figure skating I imagine?  I can't see how so many could be swayed to behave in such an immoral manner.  However, I suppose there is an argument that the new scoring system seems to benefit some more than others - when it was talked about before its introduction I seem to remember discussions where some felt it might benefit Yuzuru given the quality of his skating - this is not proving to be the case sadly.

As I said, I am no expert, but tend to believe that most people start from a point of wanting to do a good job and to be fair.  (lol you will probably say I am naive, and maybe that's true!)

 

Edit: by the way I am NOT arguing here that Yuzu was scored properly at ACI - he was scored very unfairly and inaccurately IMO

[SuzyQ]

Additional News clips.  Sorry, if already posted.  Many scenes may be overlapped.

 

Pretty mushroom Yuzu tells about his respects for Plushenko 

Every:

 

Mezamashi Seven:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf2-wb3_Quo

 

 

 

[shanshani]

1 minute ago, Pammi said:

I'm just thinking about this, and am certainly no expert at all on the matter (just a bit wary of conspiracy theories ....although of course conspiricies do happen!), but this relies on all judges being corrupt, doesn't it? and all Tech controllers? - is this really what we believe is happening? If this was really the case I would expect someone with principles and a love of the sport to whistleblow, knowing that such an approach was being promoted by those in powerful positions.  Also, figure skating is a really small world - the judges probably have links with many others in figure skating I imagine?  I can't see how so many could be swayed to behave in such an immoral manner.  However, I suppose there is an argument that the new scoring system seems to benefit some more than others - when it was talked about before its introduction I seem to remember discussions where some felt it might benefit Yuzuru given the quality of his skating - this is not proving to be the case sadly.

As I said, I am no expert, but tend to believe that most people start from a point of wanting to do a good job and to be fair.  (lol you will probably say I am naive, and maybe that's true!)

I don't know that I buy the conspiratorial version of what's going on behind the scenes, but it bears noting that the institutional structure of judge selection (they are selected by their own federations, who will prefer judges that promote their interests) actively encourages the promotion of judges who act as stooges for their federation and discourages the selection of unbiased judges. Bad institutions breed corruption by incentivizing bad behavior, disincentivizing good behavior, and promoting bad actors over good ones. Plus, people are good at rationalizing their own behavior ("oh, well it's not that big of a deal if I give my own skater a couple of extra points and dock a couple of points off direct competitors. everyone does it, those points probably aren't going to make a big difference anyway, plus my fed might not send me to another competition if I don't do it"). You don't have to be cartoonishly evil to do bad things or behave corruptly--a lot of evil in the world is a result of moral mediocrity, cowardice, and rationalization rather than outright maliciousness.

[Pammi]

6 minutes ago, shanshani said:

I don't know that I buy the conspiratorial version of what's going on behind the scenes, but it bears noting that the institutional structure of judge selection (they are selected by their own federations, who will prefer judges that promote their interests) actively encourages the promotion of judges who act as stooges for their federation and discourages the selection of unbiased judges. Bad institutions breed corruption by incentivizing bad behavior, disincentivizing good behavior, and promoting bad actors over good ones. Plus, people are good at rationalizing their own behavior ("oh, well it's not that big of a deal if I give my own skater a couple of extra points and dock a couple of points off direct competitors. everyone does it, those points probably aren't going to make a big difference anyway, plus my fed might not send me to another competition if I don't do it"). You don't have to be cartoonishly evil to do bad things or behave corruptly--a lot of evil in the world is a result of moral mediocrity, cowardice, and rationalization rather than outright maliciousness.

Thanks, I didnt know how judges were selected - in this scenario then, this is what needs some reform, maybe a quality assurance body of some sort to ensure best practice in judge selection (and then monitoring of their practice) is being observed?

 

EDIT: an INDEPENDENT quality assurance body

[Sombreuil]

6 minutes ago, shanshani said:

I don't know that I buy the conspiratorial version of what's going on behind the scenes, but it bears noting that the institutional structure of judge selection (they are selected by their own federations, who will prefer judges that promote their interests) actively encourages the promotion of judges who act as stooges for their federation and discourages the selection of unbiased judges. Bad institutions breed corruption by incentivizing bad behavior, disincentivizing good behavior, and promoting bad actors over good ones. Plus, people are good at rationalizing their own behavior ("oh, well it's not that big of a deal if I give my own skater a couple of extra points and dock a couple of points off direct competitors. everyone does it, those points probably aren't going to make a big difference anyway, plus my fed might not send me to another competition if I don't do it"). You don't have to be cartoonishly evil to do bad things or behave corruptly--a lot of evil in the world is a result of moral mediocrity, cowardice, and rationalization rather than outright maliciousness.

And let’s not forget laziness - easier to just go along with things, not rock the boat at a low level, easier not to engage with things like tech that is an effort for you to understand at higher levels.

[shanshani]

Just now, Pammi said:

Thanks, I didnt know how judges were selected - in this scenario then, this is what needs some reform, maybe a quality assurance body of some sort to ensure best practice in judge selection (and then monitoring of their practice) is being observed?

really what needs to happen is that official selection needs to be taken out of the hands of the national feds and put into the hands of an unbiased international body. also, there needs to be some kind of easily searchable and analyzable repository of each judge's judging record (I'm working on something similar but I only have meager technical skills so it will be a pale imitation of what should be). I think tech panel votes needs to be publicly accessible as well--right now, we don't know who voted for which call, so we don't know who exactly to hold responsible for bad calls.

 

1 minute ago, Sombreuil said:

And let’s not forget laziness - easier to just go along with things, not rock the boat at a low level, easier not to engage with things like tech that is an effort for you to understand at higher levels.

 

Yeah, definitely. Doing the right thing often requires sticking your neck out, putting in extra effort, or some other kind of special exertion. (And if there are bad institutions, you will be punished for doing the right thing, so the people with integrity will be weeded out early anyway.)

[Henni147]

2 minutes ago, Pammi said:

I'm just thinking about this, and am certainly no expert at all on the matter (just a bit wary of conspiracy theories ....although of course conspiricies do happen!), but this relies on all judges being corrupt, doesn't it? and all Tech controllers? - is this really what we believe is happening? If this was really the case I would expect someone with principles and a love of the sport to whistleblow, knowing that such an approach was being promoted by those in powerful positions.  Also, figure skating is a really small world - the judges probably have links with many others in figure skating I imagine?  I can't see how so many could be swayed to behave in such an immoral manner.  However, I suppose there is an argument that the new scoring system seems to benefit some more than others - when it was talked about before its introduction I seem to remember discussions where some felt it might benefit Yuzuru given the quality of his skating - this is not proving to be the case sadly.

As I said, I am no expert, but tend to believe that most people start from a point of wanting to do a good job and to be fair.  (lol you will probably say I am naive, and maybe that's true!)

 

Sorry, I edited my post above, because it's not exclusively US and Russian skaters, who benefit from inaccurate scoring.

 

If there's any excuse for all these wrong decisions, it's the fact that judges have to take care of too many things at the same time. There are currently 6 positive and 18 negative GOE bullets that must be checked for every technical element plus 5 global program components with vague guidelines. That all has to be done in less than 7 minutes.

 

When I rescore a program and take care of all the bullets and guidelines, it takes me at least 15-20 minutes and I have the option to stop or rewind the video footage anytime. Judges must decide about the GOE immediately after the execution of the element. However, even if you have only 1 second to judge Yuzu's YOLO 3A from 4CC, it's really hard to justify 0 GOE. That must have been a really big typo blooper or pure hate.

[yuzuangel]

7 hours ago, Sukigirl said:

 

https://www.google.com.sg/amp/s/olympics.nbcsports.com/2019/09/14/yuzuru-hanyu-wins-autumn-classic/amp/

 

Factually true but talk about subtle shading

 

 

 

hahaHAHAHHAhhahAHAHah

[Veveco]

The Pooh grab 

 

 

[Veveco]

[yuzuangel]

Just now, Veveco said:

the one silver 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 minutes ago, Veveco said:

Ghana needs to make a maple-flavored chocolate for those little dispensers. 

[IULIANA]

Is there any chance that some merciful hearted satellite with linguistic japanese capabilities to give us ignorants at least a gist of a translation of the Mezamashi interview, please, pretty please?