General Yuzuru Chat

[4Nessie]

 

58 minutes ago, Sammie said:

Yes  there a clip somewhere where he was hairspraying his hair before the award ceremony in Rostelecom last year.  

 

Found it! There is proof! 

 

On 9/12/2018 at 8:08 AM, MeowZu said:

Mr. Hanyu with his hair spray hahahahahahaha

 

 

 

[vanadiezz]

I sometimes go to T*L to read the comments.

Couldn't bother to listen to what they said because it is usually quite shallow. Heck, I got less useful information from their lengthy talking compared to Kurt's before and after program commentary.

 

Spoiler

As for Shoma. Let's say I am disappointed in him/his team/whoever made him the way he currently is. People always said "don't blame the skaters, blame the judges" for over scoring. Yet, with all the problems he had with his quad flip, isn't it more honorable to simply not using it during competition? I might be biased here because that is the way I think Yuzu will do if he keep getting rewarded unfairly though. 

 

Anyway, I like Shoma's SP and his Great Spirit EX. But for the love of God I couldn't see what others seem to rave about the complexity of his FP. Despite the music changes it all seems so empty and monotone-ish for me. 

 

Have been curious about one thing though. Shoma botched his jumps on second part of his FP this season. On triples no less, giving a real idea somehow that the 30 secs reduction is hard for skaters. But, all this time I thought Yuzu's the one with less stamina because of his asthma. Yet, he's managed to stand on his feet! Has his stamina really improved that much under Brian, or is it all from will's strength?

[Sammie]

41 minutes ago, Summer said:

Whenever I happen to listen to T*L I do so with an attitude of "Take the good, ignore the bad, anticipate the ugly."

 

For Shoma fans it's good because they have been praising him for years. Except even D can't ignore his poor jumping technigue any longer.

They don't like Hanyu, never have. After PC, D has acknowledged that maybe it's not good business to keep bashing him. J seems to zone out every time D says something remotely nice about Hanyu. The most hilarious time was when D said something nice -ish about him (I don’t remember what exactly) and out of nowhere J was thinking about Bradie Tennell's spins. And no, they don’t like Bradie; for them she looks too junioris, didn’t like her LP last season and at least she needs to dye her hair...

Anyway, their opinions fluctuate. So except for Shoma (and maybe Satoko) they don't stan any skater so be prepared to get your faves picked apart sooner than later.

 

About the costume talk by commentators: I’m so tired of it. I feel like if commentators don’t have anything constructive to say they give personal (mostly negative) opinions about costume and/or music. They could just make a blanket statement at the beginning stating that not everyone likes all costumes or music choises and be done with it. I have my personal preferences and I don’t care about theirs.

Yeah they really really love Shoma. They liked his empty Free because it minimalist and no unnecessary transitions. While they hated Yuzuru H&L because they think it’s too empty not enough transitions 

[Moria Polonius]

4 minutes ago, vanadiezz said:

Have been curious about one thing though. Shoma botched his jumps on second part of his FP this season. On triples no less, giving a real idea somehow that the 30 secs reduction is hard for skaters. But, all this time I thought Yuzu's the one with less stamina because of his asthma. Yet, he's managed to stand on his feet! Has his stamina really improved that much under Brian, or is it all from will's strength?

 

I think his asthma doesn't affect him much anymore. Most people grow out of it.

 

His stamina has improved throught the years, though. Since 2015/16 season he has been able to do multi-quad FS and not appear completly out of breath. He's bulked up a bit too, big tigh muscles, quite a bit of abs. 

 

But I noticed that after the Helsinki FS - not to mention ACI - he took his time recovering, like he used to in the past. He seemed really out of breath, so that's probably the effect of the 30 secs cut, despitee the general improvement in stamina.

[Neenah]

23 minutes ago, vanadiezz said:

Have been curious about one thing though. Shoma botched his jumps on second part of his FP this season. On triples no less, giving a real idea somehow that the 30 secs reduction is hard for skaters. But, all this time I thought Yuzu's the one with less stamina because of his asthma. Yet, he's managed to stand on his feet! Has his stamina really improved that much under Brian, or is it all from will's strength?

In addition to what @Moria Polonius said, I think Yuzu's past stamina issues is helping him now. He learned how to manage his energy and control it so that he wouldn't run out of steam by the end of the program like he used to, so now he is better equipped to handle the new arrangement. Shoma on the other hand always had very good stamina. It was never an issue he needed to worry about so he is learning now how to handle the strain. 

[sweetwater]

Sorry if this has already been shared, but there are many beautiful photos of Yuzu taken during GPH in this site. It's worth taking a look.
http://behindphotos.com/showcases.html?id=442

[yuzuonice]

3 hours ago, Salior said:

Someday I'd like to have a list of stupid things they said, so we can have proof for unsuspecting people who don't know what they're getting themselves into, like poor Liam Cross. 

why make a list, when they mock skaters with mental heath problems on a regular basis (especially Gracie, and recently Gabby too), that's reason enough to not take them seriously.

[TallyT]

33 minutes ago, Moria Polonius said:

 

I think his asthma doesn't affect him much anymore. Most people grow out of it.

 

His stamina has improved throught the years, though. Since 2015/16 season he has been able to do multi-quad FS and not appear completly out of breath. He's bulked up a bit too, big tigh muscles, quite a bit of abs. 

 

But I noticed that after the Helsinki FS - not to mention ACI - he took his time recovering, like he used to in the past. He seemed really out of breath, so that's probably the effect of the 30 secs cut, despitee the general improvement in stamina.

 

I think also he and his choreographers (Shae for the FS especially) are extremely good at pacing it, to give the maximum breathing room (Seimei was a marvel for this, and that must have helped in the Olys).  The cut in time has made that more of a challenge and I think all the skaters and their choreographers are on a learning curve they mostly didn't expect to make it work.

[TallyT]

Okay, any excuse to repost that breathtaking new photo....

[salty]

8 hours ago, enno0287 said:

This is exactly what I hate about his team. I mean...the guy can be more than that but they refuse to be more. It's frustrating!!!
With such a skating skill they could give him more transitions during program. But noooo...because judges already reward him highly with literally crossovers all throughout the program, they didn't add anything more into it. Ughhhh...I wouldn't be so pissed when Shoma gets more GOE than Yuzu if he doesn't only do crossovers in between his programs.

Oh, and his floop that never gets called also really annoyed me. I know changing jump technique is difficult, but come on...Zhenya manage to improve her flutz so why can't Shoma? Or should I not compare him to Zhenya either?

 

8 hours ago, enno0287 said:

THIS also!! I know that Shoma goes to US every summer for jump training, and his jumps (other than the floop) have been getting better -though I have to add that he still prerotates a lot too-. I just...don't understand why judges never called that floop.

I really appreciate it when skaters (like Zhenya, Satoko and Mao) tried their best to improve their technique. I also appreciate Shoma for going for jump training in US and it'll probably take a few years to really correct his floop, but...I don't know, I feel like his floop isn't getting any better up until now.

Spoiler

 

you guys . . . watch his 4f in the SP and LP, it's no longer full blade assist. A lot of us don't really follow shoma so we don't read every interview he gives or knows exactly what he's working on like we do with Yuzu. I think it might be a little unfair to say that Shoma doesn't work on his weaknesses at all. In fact him choosing Moonlight Sonata is indicative that he wants to progress artistically (whether he is successful in that venture is still to be seen as the choreo is severely lacking in that but i wouldn't blame any lack of effort on Shoma's part for that. Edit: not every skater needs to be as cerebral and in control of their choreo as Machida or Yuzu) Shoma is very nonchalant but at the same time also very competitive. I just wish he'd learn how to move a litter faster on ice and stop relying on deep, deep crossovers because those just don't suit his programs for this season.

 

Anyway, just be careful about what you project onto other skaters, Shoma is obviously working hard and you can see that in how his jumps quality has increased. That's also probably why he's been a little more inconsistent (along with the -30 sec) is that when he gets tired he reverts back to his bad habits of jumping, just like every other skater who is trying to fix their jumps.

 

edit: hmmm i just watched his programs again from NHK and it looks like he flooped in the long but regardless i do think the jump is getting better - more height - and in the short it looked like he was using maybe half of the blade or 3/4ths instead of the full. So i think he may have just been trying to save energy for the long and that's why the jump reverted back to his bad habits

 

anyway this discussion probably belongs in the General Skating Chat, sorry mods!

 

 

[4Nessie]

20 minutes ago, salty said:

 

 

you guys . . . watch his 4f in the SP and LP, it's no longer full blade assist. A lot of us don't really follow shoma so we don't read every interview he gives or knows exactly what he's working on like we do with Yuzu. I think it might be a little unfair to say that Shoma doesn't work on his weaknesses at all. In fact him choosing Moonlight Sonata is indicative that he wants to progress artistically (whether he is successful in that venture is still to be seen as the choreo is severely lacking in that but i wouldn't blame any lack of effort on Shoma's part for that.) Shoma is very nonchalant but also very competitive and his media interviews have gotten better to. I wish he'd learn how to move a litter faster on ice and stop relying on deep, deep crossovers because those just don't suit his programs this season.

 

Anyway, just be careful about what you project onto other skaters, Shoma is obviously working hard and you can see that in how his jumps quality has increased. That's also probably why he's been a little more inconsistent (along with the -30 sec) is that when he gets tired he reverts back to his bad habits of jumping, just like every other skater who is trying to fix their jumps.

 

Spoiler

Oh, I believe he works. He don't take those jumping classes just for fun. And I wouldn't call myself an expert on jumps. I don't recognize jumps, so I can't judge that. I can judge only an overall look of his skating.

That point with Moonlight Sonata though... for me, it looks exactly the same as any of his previous "classical music" programs. I don't get what in this program is artistically progressing.

I love his SP. I really do. When I saw it for the first time, I was happy for him, because he looked more mature and confident. But I've watched three versions of that program since and I don't see any improvement. He should be adding or changing elements for the program to look artistically better, but (and correct me, if I'm wrong) he skates the program still the same. The other thing for me is, he seems to be hardworking for a minute and then suddently not. Like he cares only for certain parts of his program.

I am just sad he is not much involved in choosing his programs (and at one interview - 2017 or 2018 - he even said his coach will choose the music) and yes, he can skate those programs and even perform very well, but there is something missing.

 

That said, I still like Shoma, and I still hope he will improve and take a lead when composing his own favorite program. He is talented. He is musical. I like watching him skate at exhibitions, because he is more himself and he is more connected to the music. There he shines the most. 

 

[salty]

2 minutes ago, 4Nessie said:

 

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Oh, I believe he works. He don't take those jumping classes just for fun. And I wouldn't call myself an expert on jumps. I don't recognize jumps, so I can't judge that. I can judge only an overall look of his skating.

That point with Moonlight Sonata though... for me, it looks exactly the same as any of his previous "classical music" programs. I don't get what in this program is artistically progressing.

I love his SP. I really do. When I saw it for the first time, I was happy for him, because he looked more mature and confident. But I've watched three versions of that program since and I don't see any improvement. He should be adding or changing elements for the program to look artistically better, but (and correct me, if I'm wrong) he skates the program still the same. The other thing for me is, he seems to be hardworking for a minute and then suddently not. Like he cares only for certain parts of his program.

I am just said he is not much involved in choosing his programs (and at one interview - 2017 or 2018 - he even said his coach will choose the music) and yes, he can skate those programs and even perform very well, but there is something missing.

 

That said, I still like Shoma, and I still hope he will improve and take a lead when composing his own favorite program. He is talented. He is musical. I like watching him skate at exhibitions, because he is more himself and he is more connected to the music. There he shines the most. 

 

 

Spoiler

oh yes i agree with everything you said, i just had a slight problem with people thinking he wasn't working on the technical side at all which is where he gets a lot of criticism for and i thought that that may be unfair. 

 

I try not to think about the choreography of his programs too often because what's the point? I could be thinking about paint dry and have a more productive time of it

 

[Old Cat Lady]

3 hours ago, Salior said:

Btw I need to ask this: 

 

 

Call me dumb but I still don't understand why axel can't be pre-rotated. I'm trying to understand this lol halp.

 

A lot of people do pre-rotate the axel but it's generally by less than a 1/4 as opposed to toe jumps, where a lot of skaters pre-rotate up to 180 degrees. Pre-rotating generally results in a smaller jump.  People seem to be able to sort of spin into the jump off the toe so I'm guessing they're relying on momentum+cheat to complete the rotations but since they're not vaulting into the jump, it can't get the height.  I can't explain the sciency aspect of it but I have noticed that there's a lot less pre-rotation on the axel in general and I think that's why skaters like Shoma have had so much more difficulty with the axel than the "quads".  

 

1 hour ago, Summer said:

For Shoma fans it's good because they have been praising him for years. Except even D can't ignore his poor jumping technigue any longer.

They don't like Hanyu, never have. After PC, D has acknowledged that maybe it's not good business to keep bashing him. J seems to zone out every time D says something remotely nice about Hanyu. The most hilarious time was when D said something nice -ish about him (I don’t remember what exactly) and out of nowhere J was thinking about Bradie Tennell's spins. And no, they don’t like Bradie; for them she looks too junioris, didn’t like her LP last season and at least she needs to dye her hair...

 

I'm pretty sure the only reason that Dave's started acknowledging Shoma's poor technique is because he got called out over giving Shoma a 4 GOE on it in his judging video by so many people in the comments.

 

Did Dave really publicly say that they quit criticizing Yuzu for business reasons?  I feel like such a fool - I thought Dave genuinely turned his opinion around.  Jonathon never pretended to like Yuzu but Dave's been so much more positive - judging by his facial expressions, he even seems annoyed when Jonathon would criticize Yuzu.  But maybe the pursed lips and wide eyes were just because Dave was worried about fan reaction to what Jonathon said - I did notice that Jonathon was nicer in the Helsinki review so I guess Dave must have finally drilled the business model into Jonathan's head.

 

Ever since I saw the video where Dave tried to claim that Shoma, Nathan, and Yuzu should all get 8's across the board for PCS at 4 Continents, I quit taking them seriously as skating critics.  I returned to serious fandom because of the Olympics and so watched old videos of TSL a couple months later - at that point,  I already understood the system better than they did.  It didn't take a lot of time or effort to understand the judging system so why do they seem so clueless when they've been following it for years ahead of me?

 

Now that I know that they're discussion is spun for business purposes, I can't even respect them as gossipy bitches.  I knew not to take them seriously for info because they tried to claim that Yuzu hated Shoma but I thought they were at least honest in their opinions.

 

7 hours ago, Msyloves said:

 

 

What I don't like about them is they are always using Yuzu as clickbait then just shade him in their broadcasts or "whatever". 

 

That's the thing I hate the most too.  I remember I was excited to see a pic of Yuzu at his parade on their video thinking that they were going to have a big discussion about him but then all it was was a line or 2 asking why he got the People's Honor award but not Kohei Uchimara.  Honestly, I don't even mind hearing criticism, but it really annoys me that they use his image to get me to sit through an hour of their talking then give me 2 seconds of content that isn't even about him.

 

[4Nessie]

18 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

 

A lot of people do pre-rotate the axel but it's generally by less than a 1/4 as opposed to toe jumps, where a lot of skaters pre-rotate up to 180 degrees. Pre-rotating generally results in a smaller jump.  People seem to be able to sort of spin into the jump off the toe so I'm guessing they're relying on momentum+cheat to complete the rotations but since they're not vaulting into the jump, it can't get the height.  I can't explain the sciency aspect of it but I have noticed that there's a lot less pre-rotation on the axel in general and I think that's why skaters like Shoma have had so much more difficulty with the axel than the "quads".  

 

 

I'm pretty sure the only reason that Dave's started acknowledging Shoma's poor technique is because he got called out over giving Shoma a 4 GOE on it in his judging video by so many people in the comments.

 

Did Dave really publicly say that they quit criticizing Yuzu for business reasons?  I feel like such a fool - I thought Dave genuinely turned his opinion around.  Jonathon never pretended to like Yuzu but Dave's been so much more positive - judging by his facial expressions, he even seems annoyed when Jonathon would criticize Yuzu.  But maybe the pursed lips and wide eyes were just because Dave was worried about fan reaction to what Jonathon said - I did notice that Jonathon was nicer in the Helsinki review so I guess Dave must have finally drilled the business model into Jonathan's head.

 

Ever since I saw the video where Dave tried to claim that Shoma, Nathan, and Yuzu should all get 8's across the board for PCS at 4 Continents, I quit taking them seriously as skating critics.  I returned to serious fandom because of the Olympics and so watched old videos of TSL a couple months later - at that point,  I already understood the system better than they did.  It didn't take a lot of time or effort to understand the judging system so why do they seem so clueless when they've been following it for years ahead of me?

 

Now that I know that they're discussion is spun for business purposes, I can't even respect them as gossipy bitches.  I knew not to take them seriously for info because they tried to claim that Yuzu hated Shoma but I thought they were at least honest in their opinions.

 

 

That's the thing I hate the most too.  I remember I was excited to see a pic of Yuzu at his parade on their video thinking that they were going to have a big discussion about him but then all it was was a line or 2 asking why he got the People's Honor award but not Kohei Uchimara.  Honestly, I don't even mind hearing criticism, but it really annoys me that they use his image to get me to sit through an hour of their talking then give me 2 seconds of content that isn't even about him.

 

 

Yep, and what's worse - I've rewatched Shoma's NHK SP right now (I don't want to be biased in my posts, so I need to study all the time ). Anyway, why am I saying this - there I've seen* (Edit: *read on the YT page) the worst comment of this season (at least) for me: (Talking about Shoma's overscored SP) "Even TSL agrees he should have been above Sergei." 

 

People are taking them seriously!!! Why!!!

 

Edit: But enough ranting. I don't want to become a hater. They are, what they are. And I am looking forward to CoR and don't want to ruin my mood too much. 

[Vulnavia]

In the comments of the latest TSL video, someone asked them about the fact that they're profiting off of the likenesses of skaters with these new products, and one of the things that they said in their reply was that they've given the skaters a lot of publicity over the years and the profits from this merch will help them to keep creating content that promotes skaters. I was literally  and then  at the suggestion that skaters like Yuzu or Tessa & Scott are in need of or benefiting from TSL's 'publicity' in any way.