General Yuzuru Chat

[wombat-poodle]

11 minutes ago, micaelis said:

I think I want to bring something up because as far as I can tell nobody's broached this topic - Yuzu's competitors this season.  I've been going over the competitor lists in the competitions Yuzu's in and it looks to me like he has it relatively easy, which isn't good.  This weekend his primary competition will be Javi and I think there will be attention to it.  NBC has an article headlining the Yuzu--Javi match-up, pointing out that those two are responsible for the last four World Championships.  Then at Rostelecom his only significant opponent would appear to be Nathan Chen.  NHK's primary competitor would seem to be Patrick Chan.  Which means that Yuzu's first competition with the person I consider the most dangerous this season in Yuzu's quest for Olympic gold, Shoma Uno, will be the GPF.  I might add also then will be the first time he faces Boyang Jin also.  That isn't good.  Yuzu needs to get a feel for what Uno's packing this season as early as possible.  Some might ask why Uno as his prime competitor,  just look at his record the first two years of his competing on the senior level.  It's formidable and much more dramatic than Yuzu's first two years.  In these last two seasons Shoma has skated in fourteen competitions and in all except three he has ended up on the podium, with five of those being gold.  In fact four of those golds were last season.  Also, remember that Shoma  came within just a few small points of beating Yuzu at Worlds last season.  Shoma had two good skates, while Yuzu had a bad SP and only beat Shoma by having a PERFECT FP.  I might also add that Shoma's already taken the gold at the first of his competitions this season, which means the boy is still hot.  I also think there's a danger of Yuzu having too easy a time before the GPF given the relatively light challenges he'll be facing before then.  I can only hope that he forgets about those challengers and focuses on just skating the cleanest possible programs.  If he does that he'll make it to that gold in Pyeongchang.  I remember a comment Johnny Weir made in one of his commentaries for NBC, when he stated "Nobody can beat a perfect Yuzuru Hanyu."  I think that still applies but it's possible to enter this season overconfident.  After all he's the reining Olympic champ, the reigning World champ and the reigning GPF champ, which means he's by far the one to beat this year (Actually he's been that ever since the  2013-2014 season, with mixed results the years since).  So, I just thought I'd raise the issue.
 

One more observation about Shoma - He's the only skater right now who some of the commentators are labeling 'complete', a label most often applied to Yuzu over the years, which means that Yuzu must pay as much attention to his PCS as to his TES to top Shoma.  That's why I'm saying Shoma is the biggest threat to Yuzu this season.

 

 

After GPF, he can still face Shoma at Nationals, before the Olympics. Don't worry too much about it! I don't think Nathan and Javi are to be taken lightly tbh, even Patrick... They have all beaten Yuzu before, whereas Shoma hasn't (unless you count the WTT total score). So Yuzu has plenty of opportunities to face off with strong rivals before the big showdown.

[golden]

also, while it seems unlikely that the top six wouldnt be locks for the gpf, anything can happen really! i dont think many people last year would have bet on world medallist boyang not making the final, or on adam rippon making it in his place. this season is a new kind of pressure that half of the top six have never before experienced - which is where javi, yuzu and patrick will have an advantage, and gp's will be much more difficult because winning medals on the gp/at the gpf will certaintly set them up for media hype going into the new year. anything can happen, no matter how unlikely in this sport   take it as it comes. yuzu's in the best condition he's been in for years, mentally and physically it seems, we just need to trust in him.

[KatjaThera]

On top of the arguments already given, I think Yuzu would be the last person in the World to underestimate his rivals, including Shoma. He's the one who pretty much predicted the quad craze and has spent years preparing for it. So I don't think it's overconfidence, but just confidence that he has good weapons to fight with. It's not really like he waltzed in and said "OGM is mine!" (although some think choosing Seimei is kind of like that, just because it's such an awesome program). In the end, though, Yuzu's biggest rival is still himself, because of the mental side if nothing else. And any competition, regardless of the external rival, is good practice, IMO. I'm stressing, too, but Yuzu's confidence and Brian's confidence are making me lean towards being positive ^_^

[Lunna]

31 минуту назад, micaelis сказал:

I think I want to bring something up because as far as I can tell nobody's broached this topic - Yuzu's competitors this season.

I still think the biggest competition to Yuzu is himself . As long as he doesn't bomb too much he should be OK )) But if he's really in good condition rn I hope for a smooth start of the season (for a change ) 

As for Shoma I still find Nathan more of a potential treat, maybe not already at CoR (depends on his layout there) but by GPF or Olys, cuz Nate can have higher BV and better GOE on his jumps + nice PCS.

[Sammie]

9 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

On top of the arguments already given, I think Yuzu would be the last person in the World to underestimate his rivals, including Shoma. He's the one who pretty much predicted the quad craze and has spent years preparing for it. So I don't think it's overconfidence, but just confidence that he has good weapons to fight with. It's not really like he waltzed in and said "OGM is mine!" (although some think choosing Seimei is kind of like that, just because it's such an awesome program). In the end, though, Yuzu's biggest rival is still himself, because of the mental side if nothing else. And any competition, regardless of the external rival, is good practice, IMO. I'm stressing, too, but Yuzu's confidence and Brian's confidence are making me lean towards being positive ^_^

 Totally agree on his biggest rival is himself.  

[Yatagarasu]

39 minutes ago, micaelis said:

Then at Rostelecom his only significant opponent would appear to be Nathan Chen.  

 

For me, Nathan Chen is his biggest opponent this season and meeting him head on at Rostelecom already is a stroke of good luck.

Never underestimate USFSA, ever; Nathan's programs this season are pretty much masterpieces in terms of how tailored they are to him to hide all possible weaknesses; his jumps do not have any major issues and he has a full set, and to top that off, they have chosen the ideal tactic for introducing his quads while maximizing his PCS. 

[Altie]

1 hour ago, micaelis said:

Some might ask why Uno as his prime competitor,  just look at his record the first two years of his competing on the senior level.  It's formidable and much more dramatic than Yuzu's first two years. 

 

I just wanted to add tat Yuzu turned senior at 15, while Shoma turned senior at 17, so you can't really compare their "first two years" per se. In fact, at Shoma's age, Yuzu was already gpf champion, national champion, world champion and olympic champion... so I wouldn't say Shoma is more formidable than Yuzu at the same stage of their carreers - far from it.

[Hydroblade]

I just made this one

[Murieleirum]

56 minutes ago, Altie said:

 

I just wanted to add tat Yuzu turned senior at 15, while Shoma turned senior at 17, so you can't really compare their "first two years" per se. In fact, at Shoma's age, Yuzu was already gpf champion, national champion, world champion and olympic champion... so I wouldn't say Shoma is more formidable than Yuzu at the same stage of their carreers - far from it.

 

This. Plus, the same commentators that say Shoma is 'complete' agree with his scores at Lombardia trophy. Those kind of people don't know the difference between 'posing as if you are interpreting deeply' and 'interpreting deeply'. For some people, Yuzuru's Hope and Legacy would be 'colder' than some of Shoma's programs. This is just not true, but with certain people who just don't have the sensitivity to recognize heart and emotion when they see it, you cannot discuss that much. 

(Sorry, I want to specify that I think Shoma did some heartfelt performances in his senior years. I didn't think Turandot at Lombardia was one of that performances, though) 

 

Shoma found one way to express himself, and since it worked with the judges, he is now stuck in that. As far as I'm concerned, he is not that different from Javi, interpretation wise: he has one character, and uses that character over and over again. They both don't explore different sides of themselves when they skate, because they don't see the skate as 'discovering themselves'. Only, since Javi has more experience, I'd say Javi is better in using "different shades of the same palette", per say. 

 

To me, no skater is complete until they've shown they can be more than just one character. But, you know, to each his own. 

[Amura365]

52 minutes ago, Altie said:

 

I just wanted to add tat Yuzu turned senior at 15, while Shoma turned senior at 17, so you can't really compare their "first two years" per se. In fact, at Shoma's age, Yuzu was already gpf champion, national champion, world champion and olympic champion... so I wouldn't say Shoma is more formidable than Yuzu at the same stage of their carreers - far from it.

I hate it people compare the two. People keep forgetting that Hanyu  turned senior at a very young age(15). He had to work up the ranks the old fashioned way. It took him years to earn his PCS and TED scores as opposed to now where skaters like Uno ,Boyang ,and Chen earn those kind of PCS and TED scores their first year. Don't forget all of the skaters above turned senior much later than Hanyu. I'm not blaming the skaters it's the judges that are the problem.

[Forcefield]

11 minutes ago, Amura365 said:

I hate it people compare the two. People keep forgetting that Hanyu  turned senior at a very young age(15). He had to work up the ranks the old fashioned way. It took him years to earn his PCS and TED scores as opposed to now where skaters like Uno ,Boyang ,and Chen earn those kind of PCS and TED scores their first year. Don't forget all of the skaters above turned senior much later than Hanyu. I'm not blaming the skaters it's the judges that are the problem.

 

Also my ten cents. It almost seems like a different era like the times have changed within the last few years only. You can't really compare the era where Daisuke Takahashi and Patrick reigned supreme when Yuzu debuted to this one with Yuzu and the sQuad. It just feels so different. Or I feel that way, that is.

[Sombreuil]

There is a long term ebb and flow between increasing jump eras (80s - Plushenko ) and 'artistic ' ones ( I know artistic isn't the right word in the current era but it sort of covers the ground) such as 2010. In my view it doesn't apply to YH - he has both.  I waited 40 years to see another complete skater- treasure him while we have him, regardless of results - I plan to.

[MajaHled]

I suddenly feel so inexperienced reading all this stuff about past eras 

 

But I gotta say, I never imagined it'd be so stressful to actually follow FS throughout the season. I mean it's barely even started and I'm already stressing out 

 

I feel like this sport will be the death of me one of these days 

[Sombreuil]

I was lucky with my first 'complete' skater John Curry- the general pressures were much less and I was young enough to believe he couldn't lose!  ( see @Yatagarasuthread on classic performances for any detail).  Now I'm all too aware of politics, media pressure, fan pressure etc etc etc. I don't actually care about those - I don't like it but there's nothing I can do about it.  I hope he gets everything this season but most of all I would like performances he is happy with - I won't say satisfied because he's a perfectionist but - reasonably happy with ?? 

[Aotoshiro]

3 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I was lucky with my first 'complete' skater John Curry- the general pressures were much less and I was young enough to believe he couldn't lose!  ( see @Yatagarasuthread on classic performances for any detail).  Now I'm all too aware of politics, media pressure, fan pressure etc etc etc. I don't actually care about those - I don't like it but there's nothing I can do about it.  I hope he gets everything this season but most of all I would like performances he is happy with - I won't say satisfied because he's a perfectionist but - reasonably happy with ?? 

I'd love to have him finish his usual: 'I'm really regretful with...." with a more positive "but the x was kinda good, so, yeah, I'm also happy" _{sorry for the mush, I should be sleeping.}

 

I seriously need to start threading through the rest of the forum...I seem to be missing a lot of FS education!