General Yuzuru Chat

[EternalSpin]

When I first saw the COC 2014 skate, I was rather shocked like all of you, but now... maybe there's something wrong with me, but sometimes I find myself re-watching that fs and it is totally ok to me. Even the falls don't look scary. I know how weird that sounds 

[FlyingCamel]

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:17 AM, Faithyu said:

 

WHAT, they are not allowed to help? Okay, now I'm shocked!

Thats like, a really stupid rule.

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Hmm I think there are reasons behind it though! Like if the skaters attempting to help any other injured skater have no first aid knowledge they might accidentally worsen the condition of the injured skater  

[Flutterby]

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:28 AM, FlyingCamel said:

Hmm I think there are reasons behind it though! Like if the skaters attempting to help any other injured skater have no first aid knowledge they might accidentally worsen the condition of the injured skater  

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Exactly. Like if someone injured their neck or spine you wouldn't want to move them right away without, say, a neckbrace. The procedure is for the skaters to clear the ice and let the medical professionals handle it.

[Faithyu]

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:28 AM, FlyingCamel said:

Hmm I think there are reasons behind it though! Like if the skaters attempting to help any other injured skater have no first aid knowledge they might accidentally worsen the condition of the injured skater  

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In Germany (I'm sure, other countrys have it too) we have something called "unterlassene Hilfeleistung". I don't know if there is a corresponding word in English.

Basically it means that everyone is obliged to help without endangering themselves.

If you see someone being beaten up, you don't have to run and try to intervene, but you must get the police or other help.
If a person is sitting on the floor gasping for breath and obviously having problems, you must go and ask if you can help and if so, call an ambulance or help yourself if you are able to do it.

If you don't help and the person suffers any damage because the help was given too late or not at all, you can be sued.

 

I don't want to say that one of the other skaters should have carried him off the ice (and wouldn't that have been a sight to see), but I would have expected someone to check,

that he was getting enough breath, because you could see that he was having trouble with it.

(of course I don't mean that anyone should have gotten sued, I just want to explain why for me, this "not helping" was so shocking to see)

[IULIANA]

I vividly remember to this day watching the warm up, then the Eurosport cut the broadcast for the stupid necesarry commercials, then when getting back to live, the commentators being confused and not really knowing how to break the collision news to the audience. I remember the images from the stands with people horrified and in tears, then after some frugal explanations from the commentators (the only available footage itself was by then property of NHK IIRC, the other tv stations did not catch the horrible moment!), came the free skate. I was speechless! Much later, in an interview, Yuzuru cold as a cucumber explained that he was sure he had no concussion, that he had had concussions before and there was no way someone could hold him back and not going out to skate, and his only thought was - and I quote - ``I have to rotate those jumps, I absolutely have to rotate them``! You might recall - those who were watching, especially Japanese tv posts - how Yuzuru, during the second warm up, with his bandage wrapped around his head, was shouting out to the ceiling ``Kobe!`` (I fould out later that this meant ``Jump!``. I must confess, I tried several times to rewatch that perfrmace, and still got no stomach to do it.

[EisElle]

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:24 AM, EternalSpin said:

When I first saw the COC 2014 skate, I was rather shocked like all of you, but now... maybe there's something wrong with me, but sometimes I find myself re-watching that fs and it is totally ok to me. Even the falls don't look scary. I know how weird that sounds 

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RE: COC, under spoiler in case someone wants to skip this discussion

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I can still tolerate watching him fall during that free. I can even watch when, after falling, you see him struggling and  taking way too long to get up on his feet.

What really wrecks me is when they showed rinkside Kikuchi crying and Brian trying to encourage him even if he, too, must have felt terribly (they were rinkside, I don't remember if it was during the warm up or during hte skate), and all those uncontrolled sobs afterwards, in the K&C  (really hated that camera lingered on that)

 

And then I think about Yumi probably being beside herself during those 4 minutes and 30secs, but still helping him not to give up on FS afterwards. She might have hated that he went through so much for a sport, and might have wished she could keep him safe and away from it, but she knew how much FS meant for him and never once stopped supporting him

(from https://yuzusorbet.tumblr.com/post/150270208657/my-sharing-from-aoi-hono-ii-warning-will-cause )

  Quote

For the first time since I was born, I said to my mother, “I can’t skate anymore.” Mother’s response was out of my expectations.  "How about just giving it a try anyway?“ she said.  From the time I was small, whenever I said I wanted to quit, she had always said, "Why don’t you quit?” but now…..  "If you skate just a little on the ice every day with the intention of rehabilitation, the situation may change for the better while doing that,“ she told me.

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We can't know if withdrawing from that comp and sititng out of GPF would have changed his path a lot.

Maybe, if he had taken time to heal without needing to rush for NHK and then GPF, he wouldn't have needed urgent surgery right after Nats and he would have had time to recover before WC. We can only guess, though I tend to lean towards the idea that all those experiences (going back on the ice immediately, then fighting through NHK and finally triumphing at GPF) was important to Yuzu, possibly even necessary, mentally. Without that, maybe the fear that made him waver at NHK would have rooted itself much deeper and he wouldn't have be able to come back to comps that fast and that well.

 

But I think that such a choice - to compete or wd after such a collision - shouldn't ever be left again to the athletes alone.

Doctors should be able to do more than just advise.

I recall things like how Yuzu got up when paramedics arrived. In hidsight, we know he wasn't concussed and he later said he had expecienced concussion before and that time didn't felt like that. We know USAteam doctors had kinda cleared him too, based on the kind of examination tha could be done in a few minutes without more sophistcated diagnostic equipment. But what if Yuzuru had been concussed? No one shoud have taken his word (or Yan's) for good and let him get up without at least a first check.

I also recall Yan Han getting up first an getting out of the rink looking kinda ok, till he had to lay down on the floor. He clearly wasn't ok, either, and couldn't even make it as far as the backstage.

Both him, who was skating in front of home crowd, and Yuzuru had their reason, important reasons in their minds, to insist on competing. My admiration for that kind of determination overcomes my worry and all my doubts about their choice being well-advised.

(Tho I fully reserve my right to use this emoji     when talking about Zuzu's brilliant ideas for stitches removal)

 

 

But I will blame the ISU for how they let that accident be handled. Compared to what we see in other sports, FS manages potential concussion and other injuries in an extremely poor way (even more so if we think that so many skaters are just teens. And technically Yuzuru himself wasn't an "adult"by Jpn law, either, and Yan was even younger)

 

Even after that and other (even more)horrifying accidents, ISU still doesn't have a proper concussion protocol in place... or in general a protocol to deal with injuries happening during warm-up/comps that wouldn't majorly rely on skaters themselves making the first call (while also actively discouraging them from calling for time out).

The dominant idea is that skaters gotta soldier on, no matter what. It shouldn't be so. ISU must take responsability: stop leaving all the onus of the choice on the athlete, in matters that require knowledge and coolness they can't have. Have specialized personnel in place instead, sitting next to the referee, and give them power and the onus to call for the comp to paused and athletes to WD, if needed

 

 

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:17 AM, Faithyu said:

 

WHAT, they are not allowed to help? Okay, now I'm shocked!

Thats like, a really stupid rule.

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It's stated somewhere in the ISU regulations, so skaters and paramedics "had" to follow that protocol. The rationale is that skaters might not know how to act and might actually make things worse, so they should just clear the ice as soon as they are told so by the referee AND THEN personnel can get on the ice and help the injured (I guess that they do not trust bystanding skaters not to skate into the paramedics...)

That's the reason why they took that long to enter the rink to help Yuzuru.

 

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:01 AM, lajoitko said:

And when NHK 17 happened we knew that the injury was really bad, otherwise he would have skated.

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well, he did say tht his ankle just wouldn't move   otherwise I fear he would have skated... and possibly made the injury so bad he would have missed out on OWG

(I guess we should thank the skating gods for preventing him from skating there on half ankle, however terrible it was for him to WD )

[Frenchkiss70]

  On 7/19/2020 at 3:13 PM, Kikooo said:

Hello I'm new here. I don't know how to interact at first so this is my very first comment hehehe

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Welcome to the Planet  Finally delurking or new fan? Tell us more 😁

[Flutterby]

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:55 AM, Faithyu said:

I would have expected someone to check,that he was getting enough breath, because you could see that he was having trouble with it.

(of course I don't mean that anyone should have gotten sued, I just want to explain why for me, this "not helping" was so shocking to see)

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One thing to keep in mind is that the audience at home watches the NHK footage focused on Yuzu. A skater at the other end of the rink would be focused on his own work and not watching the others. In such a situation it takes time for people to realize something has happened. And they wouldn't be able to see Yuzu or Han close up like we do at home or know how serious the injuries were.

 

Also the skaters would be aware that medical staff were nearby to deal with the situation. It's not like seeing someone injured on a deserted street and no one else is around. They knew help was on the way.

[Fay]

 

[micaelis]

In case any of you have missed it, today the ISU cancelled the Junior Grand Prix series.  What that says about the fate of the senior Grand Prix I cannot say, but I have been thinking about the coming season in general and my feelings are growing increasingly pessimistic.  The crucial factor seems to me to be the feasibility of international travel.  As we get closer to the season's beginning there are still so many barriers to international travel that I think any practical solution is quite simply impossible.  It's not getting the fans to their desired destinations but getting the athletes there, particularly at the required time.  There might be a point where the borders between point A and point B are open but there is no guarantee that they will remain open.  A sudden spike in cases of the virus might force a number of countries to ban travel between them and the virus-affected nation.  In short, stability is what is required and it is stability that seems right now to be so far out of reach that the ISU may just have to bite the bullet and cancel the entire season.  I hate to sound so dour but that is how I am currently reading the situation.  Most of my posts I generally end with something upbeat but right now, looking at the potential of a cancelled season, I see nothing upbeat to end this post.  Sorry about that.

[barbara]

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:11 AM, TallyT said:

Yuzuru mentioned in the Kenji's Room interviews that Brian was an absolute rock of support, which is nice.... it was a situation I don't think any coach can ever prepare himself for, his injured charge still insisting on going out and doing those quads, and Brian had to watch it all.

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His mother would have been there, too. Had to have been gut-wrenching.  Truly, after seeing that collision (over and over and over), I wonder why there aren't more collisions.    They must have some developed sixth sense for shifting ice position in the nick of time.  There has to be so much consciousness of what is happening on the entire rink.  When one skater has his music playing for a run through, the other skaters tend to almost hug the boards, or at least know where not to be.  But when it's in those first minutes of practice I am surprised there aren't collisions regularly.

[rockstaryuzu]

  On 7/20/2020 at 11:17 AM, Faithyu said:

 

WHAT, they are not allowed to help? Okay, now I'm shocked!

Thats like, a really stupid rule.

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I'm sure it's at least in part for the safety of everyone, because there are five other people whizzing around the ice at high speeds going backwards at the same time. If medics ran out there unannounced, there's a chance of  another collision happening. But it's horrible to watch. 

[sweetwater]

CoC2014 FS was a living nightmare to me, including the warm-up, the free skate, and the things that happened in the Japanese fandom after that. I feel slightly sick looking back at it even now. I watched it live on TV. (The competition was aired by TV Asahi, by the way. They have the broadcasting rights of GPS except for NHK Trophy) So the camera was on him as he collided with Han Yan while commentators were screaming, "Abunai!" After that, I watched everything fearing that we might be losing him and Han Yan, and wondering if it was right to just watch someone when they might be risking their life. Although the camera was kept away from them after they left the rinkside, I could see the doctor checking Yuzu, and then the way he talked to Kikuchi san analyzing the damages himself. However, since there was no way to know how OK he really was, the resumed warm-up and the free skate full of falls were no less scary than the collision itself because I had read about SIS. I am still grateful that they both survived that. If something was slightly different, we might not have been cheering for him like this.

 

ETA: That said, the competition tells what kind of fighter he is, so I understand there are people who became a fan after watching it.

[rockstaryuzu]

@sweetwater 'SIS'? 

 

@micaelis 

 

 

[sweetwater]

  On 7/20/2020 at 3:58 PM, rockstaryuzu said:

@sweetwater 'SIS'? 

 

 

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Second Impact Syndrome