General Yuzuru Chat

Sombreuil · November 7, 2018

TBH if you listen to them commentating on Shoma or Nathan - or sometimes Boyang and Mikhail when they aren’t falling all over the place- you begin to wonder what they’re watching, with a few exceptions. No it wasn’t perfect or his best performance but it’s the kind of uncritical gushing praise the top few tend to get unless they’re really splatting all over the place. Patrick and Javier used to get it too - will be interesting to see what they say about Javier at Europeans after a year off the radar. It took them ages to see Patrick as he really was skating after his comeback rather than how he had skated before. Yuzuru didn’t actually fall on this occasion so they can overlook the wobbles and the crunchy landings and gush - plus they’re blinded by those 2 OGMs. If they can ignore stiff legged landings, if heavy knee torque is regarded as an acceptable landing technique, if tons of crossovers and minimal transitions and choreography can be praised then why not a flawed Hanyu performance? Because the season before last all some of them could talk about was the fact he wasn’t skating clean, had he lost his edge, looking vulnerable etc etc, whilst praising easier, quad heavy /choreography light programmes with dubious technique to the skies - right up until FS WC 2017, when they could see what he was aiming for because he nailed it. Basically they talk absolute rubbish but they always have done - it’s nothing new.

@wpisces I know exactly what you mean - I took most of the season to warm up to H & L and I’m getting the same feeling about Origin. With Phantom the skating was lovely and the mistakes were injury/ illness driven - he could cope with the difficulty and wasn’t upgrading because he was in no condition to try, so it was gorgeous with falls and sometimes less difficult spins. With LGC and H&L he was pushing the difficulty levels so there was a lot of frustration and grimly concentrated performances - it never quite came out perfectly for LGC,( though he did get the performance aspect of that one by GP,) and only once for H&L, luckily at the right place. Hopefully it will come right for Origin too.

makebelieveup · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 1:19 PM, OonsieHui said:

So, I know it's off topic, but I have a thought that may not go over well...

I've felt really uncomfortable during Helsinki, and since, whenever people (commentators, journalists, other skaters) are like "that was the best of Hanyu" or "that was perfection" or "that was flawless", especially regarding his FS. Because, actually, no. That performance, while beautiful and amazing for a first competition for Yuzuru, was not his best, was not perfect, he still has stuff to work on, something that he very clearly knows and accepts. I wondered why I felt such a knee jerk negative response to said comments, and I realise it's because it feels like it cheapens his truly great outstanding performances, and makes it feel like people are saying that not because it's true but because he's Yuzuru Hanyu.

Thoughts?

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On 11/7/2018 at 1:35 PM, wpisces said:

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I might be in the minority, I have to admit his FS left me cold. It was tense and looked kind of "hostile" (not sure, I just can't find other words to describe it). As much as I tried, I really can't get the program concept/ meaning or what he wanted to express from his expressions thoughout the performance.

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On 11/7/2018 at 1:54 PM, KatjaThera said:

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I did not get a hostile feeling from it, but I do think it's meant to be more cold and distant. Origin, to me, is more like a King or maybe even a God. He rules/creates well and fair, but he is distant, untouchable, cold. The gap to Otonal and Haru yo koi, is really quite big. But personally I love that other side as well. (I do think it might reflect parts of Yuzu's own life/experiences.) Oh and just for the record, I have yet to watch that video about the creation of Origin, so I have no idea what he said it's about...

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Tbh, as a person with a spiritual belief that no one else should play God, I cannot like Origin or Seimei as much as I wanted to. Yeah the programs are some of my faves in term of performance but the themes arent some that I believe in. I do think Origin is about creation and mystical and stuffs. Although I do think that his image resembles more of a demon or villain, a bit too fierce at times. Anyway, you can see that this theme being played out from his beginning and ending movements although we can also see they drew in some moves from Nijinsky, the ballet dancer, for inspiration. I think his expressions in Origin are similar to Seimei but on steroid. Maybe because of his current stature as a double olympic gold medalist as well as the fact that he has matured as a skater that he exudes a new level of aura we havent seen before on ice. I also think its part of the expressions meant for the program. Either way, its there to draw contrast with his short and exhibition programs. We can see that he is versatile through it.

As for whether Origin is at its best? Not nearly. Both Yuzu and his fans know this and both Yuzu and his fans have higher standards for him. Thats why I'm not exactly uncomfortable or surprised by the commentaries. I'm happy to hear of good receptions but I also know that this would be used by antis as an attack on him. But what can we really do about them anyway. I also think part of the reasons why he got such comments is because he dominated the men's event with two programs. So its more of a relativity thing. Had someone skated really really well, it would have changed their attitude a bit. Remember Worlds 2017 where he skated a world breaking perf and yes, there were praises but he didnt win by a large margin. So that took away the hype by a bit.

For those who cant warm up to Origin yet, its totally understandable. At this point its still imperfect and fresh. Look at what happened to Otonal as soon as he perfected the spins and landed nearly perfectly. I think Origin layouts were sacrificed by the fact that it was shorten to 4 min but Im sure by Worlds, we would get all the things Yuzu had hoped to deliver through this program.

Mastyaeva · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 1:19 PM, OonsieHui said:

So, I know it's off topic, but I have a thought that may not go over well...

I've felt really uncomfortable during Helsinki, and since, whenever people (commentators, journalists, other skaters) are like "that was the best of Hanyu" or "that was perfection" or "that was flawless", especially regarding his FS. Because, actually, no. That performance, while beautiful and amazing for a first competition for Yuzuru, was not his best, was not perfect, he still has stuff to work on, something that he very clearly knows and accepts. I wondered why I felt such a knee jerk negative response to said comments, and I realise it's because it feels like it cheapens his truly great outstanding performances, and makes it feel like people are saying that not because it's true but because he's Yuzuru Hanyu.

Thoughts?

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TAT and Russian Eurosport commentators all agree that Yuzu fought for elements. So it wasn't his best, they surely know. TAT even gasped when Yuzu made a mistake during the stsq in the short. She especially praised Yuzu for his fighting spirit, for not giving up his jumps no matter what. After the free she said (in general) that next time he will improve. But I guess she will continue to thank him for continuing competing every time he skates and I can't agree more.

yuzuonice · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 2:08 PM, Sombreuil said:

TBH if you listen to them commentating on Shoma or Nathan - or sometimes Boyang and Mikhail when they aren’t falling all over the place- you begin to wonder what they’re watching, with a few exceptions. [...]

If they can ignore stiff legged landings, if heavy knee torque is regarded as an acceptable landing technique, if tons of crossovers and minimal transitions and choreography can be praised then why not a flawed Hanyu performance? Because the season before last all some of them could talk about was the fact he wasn’t skating clean, had he lost his edge, looking vulnerable etc etc, whilst praising easier, quad heavy /choreography light programmes with dubious technique to the skies - right up until FS WC 2017, when they could see what he was aiming for because he nailed it. Basically they talk absolute rubbish but they always have done - it’s nothing new.

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On 11/7/2018 at 2:12 PM, Mastyaeva said:

TAT and Russian Eurosport commentators all agree that Yuzu fought for elements. So it wasn't his best, they surely know. TAT even gasped when Yuzu made a mistake during the stsq in the short. She especially praised Yuzu for his fighting spirit, for not giving up his jumps no matter what. After the free she said (in general) that next time he will improve. But I guess she will continue to thank him for continuing competing every time he skates and I can't agree more.

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and there's the difference between good commentators and commentators who don't know what they're saying

(I wish we could just have Max&Angelo simultaneous translation in every possible language *sigh*. I don't dislike B.ESP commentators that much (compared to NBC, they're a blessing), but they shoot in the dark way too often -_-)

Terrapin · November 7, 2018

I must say, I was actually a bit annoyed at the BESP British commentary because they were suddenly giving Yuzu so many praises while having been rather colder the last two seasons because of Yuzu's 'inconsistencies'. And I can see the difference in all the comments now that Yuzu is 2 times OGM: suddenly he is truly the king in everybody's eyes. But I think it is a combination of the fact that Yuzu overcame such a serious injury and still won that second OGM, plus him still continuing skating despite all his achievements. But yeah, to me the most sincere comments, and the ones that never changed despite all the trials and disappointments Yuzu had to go through are Max and Angelo's comments, as well as Johnny's and Kurt's. And they also are the most accurate ones (because sometimes it seems like the British commentators didn't really check their facts well).

On a brighter side, I truly feel that this time around, Yuzu has reached a level of maturity and serenity never seen before, so I truly believe he's actually going to show us the best that has ever been now. I'm really thankful for him to continue skating a couple of seasons more, because that's when he's going to show us his full potential

Danibellerika · November 7, 2018

On 11/6/2018 at 9:17 PM, Gaby said:

Just a random thing . So I went to my Japanese class today and I said I won't be able to come next week . My teacher asked why, obviously , and I explained I was going to Russia to see FS event and to see one very special guy , and showed her Yuzu's picture on IG. And she went :" OHHHH!! YUZU!! Take A LOT of pictures please!"

Just a side note: she is Japanese but she's been living outside of Japan for like 20 years , and there are no Japanese around here, you can count them on the fingers of one hand probably , and she is not a FS fan at all, not even near . But when it comes to Yuzu, it's a different story , probably . It warmed my heart so much

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I have a friend who has a friend that's from Japan (though she hasn't lived there in years and isn't into figure skating). After Yuzu won I was explaining to him how I doubt there is a Japanese person alive that doesn't know who he is. He claimed his friend probably didn't know. Of course a couple of days later he came back and said that she indeed DID know who he was :devilYuzu: . Can't underestimate that Yuzu is the pride of a nation!

On 11/6/2018 at 8:40 PM, lajoitko said:

I want to share very personal story. It is kind of sad and if you have lost someone very recently, you probably don´t want to read further. This is also very long, so feel free to skip this.

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I have watched figure skating pretty much all of my life, but when I first saw Yuzu on tv, I became his fan. It was Cup of China 2011. I lived with my mother because her health wasn´t the best and she needed my help. My mother couldn´t understand at all what had happened. I think she thought that I had become crazy. When it was competition weekend she just rolled her eyes because I spent so much time watching "some Japanese boy".

When I bought the tickets for the WC 2017 she began to take things more seriously. We had to plan her care for the time that I was in Helsinki, and I know that she watched the competition on tv. After that her attitude changed. She no longer rolled her eyes when I said it was "a Yuzu-weekend". We started to plan our schedule together so that I could watch the competition. She bagan to ask how was the competition and I started to tell her more about Yuzu and show her some pictures and videos.

In January 2018 my mother got sick very seriously and before I could even understand the situation, she passed away. One of the last things she said to me was: "You will be fine. Think about positive things. Think about Yuzu." Her funeral was the day before Yuzu arrived in Korea. The Olympics and the events after that helped me so much. Smiling and happy Yuzu has the best healing power.

When ISU announced about Helsinki GP, I knew right away that I was going there. The only bad thing was that it was held in the same weekend when we have a tradition to go to church to remember our loved ones and light a candle for those who have passed away during the year. I was very sad that I couldn´t attend this but my aunt promised to go there so I traveled to Helsinki.

I have a bad habbit of second guessing myself, and in Helsinki I was asking myself if I was doing the right thing. I was little bit sad and thinking about my mother a lot. I was sitting in the area where Yuzu does the combination in SP and starts the step-sequence. I had priviledge to see that moment three times during the practices and competition, and every time that part of the program moved me to tears. After Yuzu´s perfect SP I found myself thinking that it was the right place for me to be, and that my mother would be so happy to see my happiness. Maybe I needed Yuzu in my life to be able to survive this period of my life. I am so happy that I did go to Helsinki. It was one of the best experiences in my life.

My friends and relatives know that I have intrest in figure skating but they don´t know how bad it is. I am a very private person and for me being a Yuzu-fan is a very private thing. Now I just had this feeling that I want to share my story with people who maybe understand what I am talking about.

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Thank you for sharing. My mom recently went to Autumn Classic this year and it was her first skating competition. She knows I'm an avid Yuzu fan and really supports it, so I try to cherish those bonding experiences. She likes him too and really enjoyed watching all the anticipation and excitement around him, and seeing how happy his skating makes people. Let's just continue to enjoy his gift because life is too short.

I know what you mean about making it a private thing. People know I love skating and they know I am a fan of Yuzu, but I get the feeling it comes off a little differently than people that love a sports team just as avidly. For me it's the same. Like NFL fans have their jerseys, they paint their bodies in colors and cheer belligerently in the cold. I have my Pooh ears and just want to do my own thing.

wpisces · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 2:12 PM, makebelieveup said:

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Tbh, as a person with a spiritual belief that no one else should play God, I cannot like Origin or Seimei as much as I wanted to. Yeah the programs are some of my faves in term of performance but the themes arent some that I believe in. I do think Origin is about creation and mystical and stuffs. Although I do think that his image resembles more of a demon or villain, a bit too fierce at times. Anyway, you can see that this theme being played out from his beginning and ending movements although we can also see they drew in some moves from Nijinsky, the ballet dancer, for inspiration. I think his expressions in Origin are similar to Seimei but on steroid. Maybe because of his current stature as a double olympic gold medalist as well as the fact that he has matured as a skater that he exudes a new level of aura we havent seen before on ice. I also think its part of the expressions meant for the program. Either way, its there to draw contrast with his short and exhibition programs. We can see that he is versatile through it.

As for whether Origin is at its best? Not nearly. Both Yuzu and his fans know this and both Yuzu and his fans have higher standards for him. Thats why I'm not exactly uncomfortable or surprised by the commentaries. I'm happy to hear of good receptions but I also know that this would be used by antis as an attack on him. But what can we really do about them anyway. I also think part of the reasons why he got such comments is because he dominated the men's event with two programs. So its more of a relativity thing. Had someone skated really really well, it would have changed their attitude a bit. Remember Worlds 2017 where he skated a world breaking perf and yes, there were praises but he didnt win by a large margin. So that took away the hype by a bit.

For those who cant warm up to Origin yet, its totally understandable. At this point its still imperfect and fresh. Look at what happened to Otonal as soon as he perfected the spins and landed nearly perfectly. I think Origin layouts were sacrificed by the fact that it was shorten to 4 min but Im sure by Worlds, we would get all the things Yuzu had hoped to deliver through this program.

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Anzi · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 1:19 PM, OonsieHui said:

So, I know it's off topic, but I have a thought that may not go over well...

I've felt really uncomfortable during Helsinki, and since, whenever people (commentators, journalists, other skaters) are like "that was the best of Hanyu" or "that was perfection" or "that was flawless", especially regarding his FS. Because, actually, no. That performance, while beautiful and amazing for a first competition for Yuzuru, was not his best, was not perfect, he still has stuff to work on, something that he very clearly knows and accepts. I wondered why I felt such a knee jerk negative response to said comments, and I realise it's because it feels like it cheapens his truly great outstanding performances, and makes it feel like people are saying that not because it's true but because he's Yuzuru Hanyu.

Thoughts?

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Don't worry. Because Yuzu know really well that that competition is not perfect and he knows how to improve himself.

MarthEmblem · November 7, 2018

Well

When Origin does reach it's final stage, I'm sure it'll blow me away. It has a lot of potential for greatness and I'm really excited for it. Hopefully the ice at Rostelecom is better and Yuzu doesn't need to sacrifice parts of the skate just to stay on his feet. Origin isn't close to being ready, there's still a lot he needs to work at, but it's good that he's not peaking yet. I'd rather he skate his best skates at GPF and World's than Helsinki and ACI. Just trust that Yuzu knows what he's doing

Msyloves · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 2:12 PM, makebelieveup said:

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Tbh, as a person with a spiritual belief that no one else should play God, I cannot like Origin or Seimei as much as I wanted to. Yeah the programs are some of my faves in term of performance but the themes arent some that I believe in. I do think Origin is about creation and mystical and stuffs. Although I do think that his image resembles more of a demon or villain, a bit too fierce at times.

3

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Origin is based on the Kojiki, which may be just mythical stuff for Christians or other religions, but are as real to the Japanese who believe in Shinto as a Catholic taking the Communion during Mass. I think the premise of Origin is a being a "kami" and being freed from the world of spirits to become part of this world. You read enough of Japanese myths and it's all about battles and conflict too between the gods, hence the fierceness. It's not all angels and harps for other people of different cultures. I think we are free to have our own interpretations but to say that Yuzu's image is that of a demon without understanding the background is really too much.

rockstaryuzu · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 1:19 PM, OonsieHui said:

So, I know it's off topic, but I have a thought that may not go over well...

I've felt really uncomfortable during Helsinki, and since, whenever people (commentators, journalists, other skaters) are like "that was the best of Hanyu" or "that was perfection" or "that was flawless", especially regarding his FS. Because, actually, no. That performance, while beautiful and amazing for a first competition for Yuzuru, was not his best, was not perfect, he still has stuff to work on, something that he very clearly knows and accepts. I wondered why I felt such a knee jerk negative response to said comments, and I realise it's because it feels like it cheapens his truly great outstanding performances, and makes it feel like people are saying that not because it's true but because he's Yuzuru Hanyu.

Thoughts?

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Just purely from a writer's standpoint, I get what you mean. It's annoying to hear such over-the-top praise because you know that factually it's not true.

Forcefield · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 3:02 PM, wpisces said:

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I do think his expressions for Origin would be suitable IF the program were to portray a demon or villain. But because it is not as far as I'm concerned, I find his expressions confusing. Besides his " hostile" expression, there must be something preventing me from being connected to the program. I can't make out what it is exactly but unlike other programs( from costume, music, to choreo,.. they are all in line with a certain theme) it seems Origin's package (theme, choreography, music, costumes, expressions,... ) lacked of cohesion which made its meaning/ concept vague. For example, what's the connection between a program about his origin and a program tribute to Plushenko, between the theme and the music from Nijinsky program? Are the program meant to draw a connection between Nijinsky ( program), Plushenko, his origin, Yuzuru himself ? But the theme turned out creation and mystical. It's just kind of illogical to me. I didn't mean to critique the program, but I really need a guide to be able to understand it.

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I can understand how the packaging of the entire Origin program may draw ? but I still love it so much already because I actually just watch what's on the ice and the story Yuzu is telling instead of trying to understand it with everything outside of it. What I see on the ice is someone commanding, like he was in Seimei, and so his expressions match it well to that of a driven king. And I believe it will connect and get better.

Tbh H&L had two pieces of music cut together that had different stories and events (Nagano Olympics), but Yuzu also created his own personal story out of it instead. So think of Origin that it isn't purely based on Nijinsky and is an original separate from Plu's like Yuzu stated in the press conference. Perhaps removing it from it's references will help you enjoy it more.

In my mind, Hope and Legacy + Origin are like Yin and Yang, which shows his nuances in character.

Edit: So Yuzu isn't trying to skate a tribute to Nijinsky, he's saying this song is a part of my origin, a part of my personal story. We're lucky he didn't decide to piece a thousand songs together to make that point, or perhaps if he did people would get it more.

Terrapin · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 3:19 PM, Msyloves said:

Origin is based on the Kojiki, which may be just mythical stuff for Christians or other religions, but are as real to the Japanese who believe in Shinto as a Catholic taking the Communion during Mass. I think the premise of Origin is a being a "kami" and being freed from the world of spirits to become part of this world. You read enough of Japanese myths and it's all about battles and conflict too between the gods, hence the fierceness. It's not all angels and harps for other people of different cultures. I think we are free to have our own interpretations but to say that Yuzu's image is that of a demon without understanding the background is really too much.

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On 11/7/2018 at 3:02 PM, wpisces said:

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I do think his expressions for Origin would be suitable IF the program were to portray a demon or villain. But because it is not as far as I'm concerned, I find his expressions confusing. Besides his " hostile" expression, there must be something preventing me from being connected to the program. I can't make out what it is exactly but unlike other programs( from costume, music, to choreo,.. they are all in line with a certain theme) it seems Origin's package (theme, choreography, music, costumes, expressions,... ) lacked of cohesion which made its meaning/ concept vague. For example, what's the connection between a program about his origin and a program tribute to Plushenko, between the theme and the music from Nijinsky program? Are the program meant to draw a connection between Nijinsky ( program), Plushenko, his origin, Yuzuru himself ? But the theme turned out creation and mystical ( it was Shae Lynn's perception but they must have discussed and reach an agreement on the theme ) It's just kind of illogical to me. I didn't mean to critique the program, but I really need a guide to be able to understand it.

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On 11/7/2018 at 3:19 PM, Msyloves said:

Origin is based on the Kojiki, which may be just mythical stuff for Christians or other religions, but are as real to the Japanese who believe in Shinto as a Catholic taking the Communion during Mass. I think the premise of Origin is a being a "kami" and being freed from the world of spirits to become part of this world. You read enough of Japanese myths and it's all about battles and conflict too between the gods, hence the fierceness. It's not all angels and harps for other people of different cultures. I think we are free to have our own interpretations but to say that Yuzu's image is that of a demon without understanding the background is really too much.

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To me Origin means different things that are all connected: It is Yuzu's origins, hence the tribute to Plushenko who himself did a tribute to Nijinsky. It is the origin of the universe in Japanese mythology, hence the idea of Yuzu being a 'demon creator', in the sense that he is able to literally create a universe through his skating. I think it also acknowledges somehow the fact that Yuzu has reached a kind of mythical status thanks to his journey and achievements. All in all, I agree that it can be more difficult to grasp because it may seem more abstract as a concept, but I think you need to see Otonal and Origin as a diptych: Otonal is more emotional while Origin is more abstract, Otonal is softer while Origin is fiercer, Otonal is the androgynous beauty while Origin is the more assertive/ masculine one etc but in the end, both combined, they actually embody what Yuzu is as a whole.

OonsieHui · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 2:12 PM, Mastyaeva said:

TAT and Russian Eurosport commentators all agree that Yuzu fought for elements. So it wasn't his best, they surely know. TAT even gasped when Yuzu made a mistake during the stsq in the short. She especially praised Yuzu for his fighting spirit, for not giving up his jumps no matter what. After the free she said (in general) that next time he will improve. But I guess she will continue to thank him for continuing competing every time he skates and I can't agree more.

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I loved those commentaries! And it's going to mean something when they eventually do say that he has skated perfectly, has skated his best! Like when Max basically gushed and yelled in elation over Worlds 2017 FS. Personally it was the best reaction, one I was especially proud of as a fan, one that actually meant something, because I knew he was a commentator who knew his stuff, who doesn't praise without reason, who is a stickler for quality.

Terrapin · November 7, 2018

On 11/7/2018 at 3:31 PM, OonsieHui said:

I loved those commentaries! And it's going to mean something when they eventually do say that he has skated perfectly, has skated his best! Like when Max basically gushed and yelled in elation over Worlds 2017 FS. Personally it was the best reaction, one I was especially proud of as a fan, one that actually meant something, because I knew he was a commentator who knew his stuff, who doesn't praise without reason, who is a stickler for quality.

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I love Max reaction so much: he was like 'please can you take over and comment instead of me because I am actually speechless' and then started gushing and just couldn't stop himself

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