General Yuzuru Chat

[Murieleirum]

57 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

I also meant it to imply that he's so comfortable with his own masculinity--there's no question that he identifies as male--yet he has no qualms in showing his inner feminity. Because even when he shows that part of himself, he doesn't seem to feel insecure and question his own masculinity, because those insecurities are a social construct, to which he doesn't seem to subscribe, the way animals don't.

 

THAT! Holy shit. Yuzuru's a guy. There's nothing wrong with praising his masculinity - especially because we don't mean it in the 'social standard' way, but in the truly, original meaning of the word. We don't think he's masculine only when he's doing the playboy on ice. He is masculine exactly when he does programs like Haru yo, koi, because he uses his feminine side with such confidence, such insight, that it lives you charmed (at least, it leaves me charmed). I'd rather his masculinity a thousand times more than Fernandez's, Yagudin or Plushenko's, or whoever else. And yes, I also do believe that he protrays femininity on ice better than Johnny or Rippon, for example. 

 

I also don't see any problem calling him an 'alpha male'. He is a male. He is a competitive beast. So, on the ice, he is an alpha male as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Outside of here, maybe alpha male corresponds to different male standards, fake, damaging gender standards to which Yuzuru definitely doesn't apply. So I don't think that the users here who are talking about Yuzuru's masculinity need any preaching regarding social gender norms and such. We know. That's part of the reason why we love Yuzuru. We know. 

 

[micaelis]

11 hours ago, Cerunias said:

Sorry, but in my opinion, that's not real life. You can be a fan, you can like the impression that Hanyu gives as a person, but that doesn't mean you have to like or love EVERYTHING he says or does or EVERYTHING that is associated with him. Even outside of forums, outside of the Internet and its keyboard warriors, can you tell me that with your (IRL) friends that you like/love everything about them? In real life, you may hold silent about things you don't like, but this is a forum - ie an opportunity to discuss things, an opportunity to express points of view...politely and constructively. The few inappropriate (inadvertent or not) remarks made, and non-constructive remarks/attacks made are quickly cleaned up by the Mods and Admins here.

This is the only forum in which I actually participate though I have lurked on a few others over the years.  What converted me from a lurker to a satellite was the fairly high level of discourse this forum achieves quite often and the overall civility that it practices.  I have been caught out a couple of times by the moderators here but after looking at the situation from their point of view I felt they had been justified in taking the action.  In fact it is the diligence of the moderators that I think keeps this forum from turning into just another 'worship-the-hero-and-bash-everyone-else' site.  They keep things on topic and away from topics that can so easily turn this into Trolling-Central. 

 

As far as negatives on Yuzu, I think there are times when Yuzu is actually less than perfect.  The thing is that those times are far less numerous than they are for the rest of us humans and that's why we admire him so.  In the course of the seven decades of my life there are only a handful of individuals whom I have admired without reservation.  Yuzu is the latest in that pantheon and the only one currently alive and the only one involved in athletics.  I think all of us here can say that Yuzu is not above all criticism but we keep things in perspective.  We can criticize elements of his costumes, elements of his skating (there's so little to criticize there, however), elements of his personality (do I hear 'headphones' anybody?), in short there are many areas where we critique Yuzu (most often in a joking sort of way) but nobody here has anything less than total respect for Yuzu as a person, a person whose ability to overcome the many obstacles he's encountered in pursuing his dreams and succeeding in realizing his ambitions is a model for us all.  In fact we deal with two 'cores' when dealing with Yuzu, that physical 'core' which enables him to jump so superbly, but also that spiritual core which enables him to 'live' so superbly.  All our lives would be poorer if there had been no Yuzu and for that all I can say to Yuzu is 'arigatou gozaimasu'.

[ralucutzagy]

What butt spin! Look at his biellmann ... Gorgeous! 

[Hydroblade]

17 minutes ago, ralucutzagy said:

What butt spin! Look at his biellmann ... Gorgeous! 

i will never get tired of the strawberry, sorry!!!

Look at this precious fluffy babyyyy

[vanadiezz]

If I may say, some... let's say discontentment about this masculine/feminine topic happened because people have different ideas on what is masculinity and femininity in the first place.

 

I am not saying that there are rights/wrongs here, just the case of people seeing things (in this case, Yuzu) and try to fit what they see into their own perception on masculine/feminine concept. Due to the diversity of cultural backgrounds in this melting pot called Planet Hanyu, understandably one's idea about the concept might be vastly different with the others. 

 

Now, if we are to find some agreement of this issue, then the first thing to do is to understand the cultural background on the speakers, while keeping in mind that it might be different with ours. Better yet, try to see Yuzu's action and choice based on HIS cultural background. 

Am I rambling enough? This things can be hard to explain. 

Now, personally, if I were to think whether Yuzu is masculine/feminine/both. First thing that come into my mind will be something like "404 error not found" because, I cannot say I have enough data to classify and justify my choice. He wear pink? Boobskirt? Sparkly things? Those are to fit his program and he is very thorough in such things. It is not like he carries all those outside of his program. And several page back there are also a post saying that high level performing arts in Japan involved gender swap roles, in this case requires male playing as female. Yet, as far as it goes, it is just for the sake of the art, not necessarily as a personality. His body type might also lend some illusion of femininity, with that delicate features... (and here I am starting to gushing again so let's just skip this).

 

As for him being masculine by being competitive etc... Let's say that competitive is not something exclusively owned by a male. At least, that is how I feel when someone beat me while playing games (for an example).

 

 Okay, I end up with a wall of text. Sigh.

 

[ruruzest]

Kikuchan !!

 

[wpisces]

2 hours ago, Murieleirum said:

 

THAT! Holy shit. Yuzuru's a guy. There's nothing wrong with praising his masculinity - especially because we don't mean it in the 'social standard' way, but in the truly, original meaning of the word. We don't think he's masculine only when he's doing the playboy on ice. He is masculine exactly when he does programs like Haru yo, koi, because he uses his feminine side with such confidence, such insight, that it lives you charmed (at least, it leaves me charmed). I'd rather his masculinity a thousand times more than Fernandez's, Yagudin or Plushenko's, or whoever else. And yes, I also do believe that he protrays femininity on ice better than Johnny or Rippon, for example. 

 

I also don't see any problem calling him an 'alpha male'. He is a male. He is a competitive beast. So, on the ice, he is an alpha male as far as I'm concerned. 

 

Outside of here, maybe alpha male corresponds to different male standards, fake, damaging gender standards to which Yuzuru definitely doesn't apply. So I don't think that the users here who are talking about Yuzuru's masculinity need any preaching regarding social gender norms and such. We know. That's part of the reason why we love Yuzuru. We know. 

 

Actually, I won't use his feminine side to prove his masculine side. I just admit the existence of both within him. Both males and females have feminine and masculine qualities. The masculine side gets expressed when we're working toward a goal, making progress, getting things done, and pushing forward. The feminine side gets expressed when you move with the flow of life, play,  do creative activities such as dance, painting, writing ...With Yuzuru, he always gets in touch with his feminine side on ice to a certain extent ( and maybe in real life too). I don't think because he's confident and comfortable with his own masculinity, he dares express his femininity without being afraid. In my opinion, when performing NS, Haru yo koi... he was simply expressing his elegance, his sensitivity, his gracefulness ....which define his feminine side on ice. And it's nothing to do with his masculinity. 

ETA: "I don't think because he's confident and comfortable with his own masculinity, he dares express his femininity without being afraid" This sentence might make some confused  I mean although I fully agree that he's comfortable with his own masculinity, I don't think because of that/ it's the reason why he dares express his femininity. In other words, IMO being masculine and being confident and comfortable with it has nothing to do with having ability/ courage to express one's feminine side. Sorry, I'm bad at expressing thoughts in writing, especially in English 

[Lunna]

51 минуту назад, ralucutzagy сказал:

What butt spin! Look at his biellmann ... Gorgeous! 

 

the boy really shaped up since boobskirt times 

[Murieleirum]

8 minutes ago, wpisces said:

Actually, I won't use his feminine side to prove his masculine side. I just admit the existence of both within him. Both males and females have feminine and masculine qualities. The masculine side gets expressed when we're working toward a goal, making progress, getting things done, and pushing forward. The feminine side gets expressed when you move with the flow of life, play,  do creative activities such as dance, painting, writing ...With Yuzuru, he always gets in touch with his feminine side on ice to a certain extent ( and maybe in real life too). I don't think because he's confident and comfortable with his own masculinity, he dares express his femininity without being afraid. In my opinion, when performing NS, Haru yo koi... he was simply expressing his elegance, his sensitivity, his gracefulness ....which define his feminine side on ice. And it's nothing to do with his masculinity. 

 

I think your message is contradicting itself, or we are saying the same thing. 

For me, masculine and feminine are correlated, connected, balance themselves within a performance or within one's existance. A bit like yin and yang, you could say. Yuzuru is a perfectly balanced male in that sense. He uses his feminine side, but he does not transform into a literal fairy lol. He is still a guy and everything he does when he performs has got to do with his identity, his gender identity, which is male. Again, as far as I'm concerned. 

I understand if there are people who want to 'trascend' the concept of sexual identity, and don't think that it matters so much. It's kind of a philosophical/phsychological discussion so it's hard to come to terms because everyone uses words differently and puts different meanings in words. 

[robin]

Honestly Yuzu is just Yuzu to me and when he skates I don't really perceive him as either feminine or masculine and I am over the whole having to defend his masculinity because a large part of the western world perceives him as feminine (or worse, too feminine for a man). I don't think masculinity or feminity matters when he skates and I don't watch him through either lense. I just watch his skating and see the beauty in it and I see him not using gender or anything else as a limiting factor in how he expresses himself. His movements and lines are all very natural and strong and beautiful and I honestly don't see the point of assigning gender attributes to them. 

 

18 minutes ago, vanadiezz said:

As for him being masculine by being competitive etc... Let's say that competitive is not something exclusively owned by a male. At least, that is how I feel when someone beat me while playing games (for an example).

 

Exactly, being competitive is not a gender attribute

[TallyT]

7 hours ago, xeyra said:

 

He does wear a lot of sequin, so a lot of verbiage about it is expected.

 

A sneaky part of my brain can't help dreaming that for his first comp, he glides out and treats us all to a vision...

 

of subdued, demure restraint.  Maybe in duck-egg blue or beige.

 

Just once, to see how many shrieks he can cause around the FS world before breaking out in the usual bling...

 

 

[savva]

10 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I think your message is contradicting itself, or we are saying the same thing. 

For me, masculine and feminine are correlated, connected, balance themselves within a performance or within one's existance. A bit like yin and yang, you could say. Yuzuru is a perfectly balanced male in that sense. He uses his feminine side, but he does not transform into a literal fairy lol. He is still a guy and everything he does when he performs has got to do with his identity, his gender identity, which is male. Again, as far as I'm concerned. 

I understand if there are people who want to 'trascend' the concept of sexual identity, and don't think that it matters so much. It's kind of a philosophical/phsychological discussion so it's hard to come to terms because everyone uses words differently and puts different meanings in words. 

 

I do not believe anyone is saying he is not male or even trying to speculate his gender identity though. A male can have traditionally feminine qualities just like a female can have masculine qualities. 

 

[Murieleirum]

5 minutes ago, savva said:

 

I do not believe anyone is saying he is not male or even trying to speculate his gender identity though. A male can have traditionally feminine qualities just like a female can have masculine qualities. 

 

 

Of course. There is nothing to speculate, I believe!  I guess it was just a 'words' discussion. Some people didn't like the choice of 'alpha male' term. I was simply defending the term, which I think is pretty neutral! 

[Tee]

 

a tv broadcast about Tanaka-san's work, also featuring photograph's of Hanyu? 

[rockstaryuzu]

25 minutes ago, savva said:

 

I do not believe anyone is saying he is not male or even trying to speculate his gender identity though. A male can have traditionally feminine qualities just like a female can have masculine qualities. 

 

Is this your very first post? If so, great start!

 

To clarify, for me, and in the strictly scientific sense of the term:

 

Alpha male = Top Dog in the pack. No one can deny that this is Yuzu. The negative and sexist connotations that have been baggaged on to the the term in recent years have absolutely zip all to do with it's actual meaning. 

 

To me, Yuzu is able to express himself on ice the way he does because he's secure in his identity as a man. There's no self-consciousness, no affectedness (contrast this with Johnny Weir, who I find is a very self-conscious performer). It's something that flows naturally from the core of his personality. 

 

My theory is that he would not be able to do that without being confident and secure in his masculinity. That doesn't mean there's something negative in him being any other way, it just means that this is what I perceive sets him free to be beautiful, graceful, and elegant. And it reminds me of old, old ideals of what gentlemen were supposed to be like. You'd have to be quite a student of history to see where i'm coming from here, but there was a time when beauty, grace, and elegance were considered positive signs of good character in a man.