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It's that time of the year - coaching changes 2019/2020


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9 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

Damn, Shoma, if his team is that supportive, he could've kept training with them this season while he looked around! 

 

Yes, but if he continues to rely on them, even tangentially, he will probably not be able to make that psychological break that he is seeking in order to get himself out of his current stasis.  At least, this is how it appears to me, but then again I am biased: when I left Japan at 18 to go to uni in the US, my father did not really want me to go. But once I made up my mind, my family let me go and supported me all the way.  I am grateful for the opportunities I have had to travel and work in many countries and to have a job that I loved - and I could never have achieved them had I stayed in Japan.  I suppose I am projecting onto Shoma-kun my own experience and wishing him "bon courage" as he steps out of his comfort zone.  

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14 minutes ago, Umebachi said:

 

Yes, but if he continues to rely on them, even tangentially, he will probably not be able to make that psychological break that he is seeking in order to get himself out of his current stasis.  At least, this is how it appears to me, but then again I am biased: when I left Japan at 18 to go to uni in the US, my father did not really want me to go. But once I made up my mind, my family let me go and supported me all the way.  I am grateful for the opportunities I have had to travel and work in many countries and to have a job that I loved - and I could never have achieved them had I stayed in Japan.  I suppose I am projecting onto Shoma-kun my own experience and wishing him "bon courage" as he steps out of his comfort zone.  

 

I guess I see what you mean, but for that to work, he'd have to take a bigger step and train somewhere overseas, maybe. But that wouldn't make logistical sense, would it? Without a coaching setup, to train alone overseas is to ask for trouble! Well, maybe we'll see a new Shoma. I was thinking in terms of managing his body, honestly. If he hasn't been used to taking care of the details of his health himself, then spotting when not to overtrain, when to do off ice work and so on - that's a big gamble to take when he needs to be in top form in a couple of years. Now that he has had a couple of recurring injuries, he really does need to be careful and not having a set of eyes that knows his warning signs on him when he trains... I wish him all the best and hope very much that my gloomy thoughts are unfounded and it will all turn out fine for him! 

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10 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

Also, in case you haven't noticed, Uno's injuries were there around 2018 worlds, and popped up again around 2019 4CCs -- so much so for kind-hearted coaches being able to deal with injuries?

This was not the question you asked me originally. And you're twisting my words to fit your bias. 

 

To put it bluntly, it's pretty observable that Eteri is what we in the West would term 'an @$$hole' to her skaters. Whereas Raf, whom I know has a reputation for being a jerk, strikes me more as someone who is gruff and willing to push his skaters hard, but is not intentionally being a jerk. There is a difference. 

 

I'm not 'concern-trolling' in regards to Shoma. I am genuinely concerned. He is a great skater, and he could ruin all that by making the wrong coaching choice. So yes, there is reason to be concerned for him. 

 

You seem to be making the mistake of thinking that I equate a coach's personality with their coaching ability. That is false. It's been my good fortune to observe, however, that coaches who are overly strict, cold and toxic are usually covering up for a lack of coaching ability with a strict attitude in order to prevent their skaters from questioning them. Then, when a skater fails, it's never the coach's fault but the skater's. Even if the coach never taught the skater correctly. 

 

The reason why a coach can be warm with their athletes is because they have mutual respect, understanding, and trust.  And those three things are the best foundation for growth and learning in sport. That's where warmth comes from and why it matters. Coldness, on the other hand, comes from fear. Is it good for an elite athlete to fear rather than trust their coach? I strongly believe it is not.

 

So yeah, what I see is Shoma going from an environment of respect and trust, to an environment that potentially will never have those things for him. That is concerning for any fan. 

 

Of course we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. That doesn't mean that what has been seen in public isn't reflective of what goes on in private. On the other hand, for most people, the way they do one thing is the way they do everything, which means that their behaviour is indicative of larger trends in their personality. 

 

I don't know why you think it's 'reactionary' to say that if Shoma doesn't have discipline now, he'll never have it. I think it's entirely reasonable to take it as a given that an Olympic silver medalist has self-discipline and a work ethic already. But whatever you want to believe, feel free. 

 

Bottom line: I don't think Eteri is the coach she's cracked up to be and there's a strong possibility that Shoma is making a huge mistake, but time will tell. 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

To put it bluntly, it's pretty observable that Eteri is what we in the West would term 'an @$$hole' to her skaters. Whereas Raf, whom I know has a reputation for being a jerk, strikes me more as someone who is gruff and willing to push his skaters hard, but is not intentionally being a jerk. There is a difference. 

 

 

I'm not getting into the rest of it but this bit does speak to your bias. Raf has literally given interviews blaming Nathan's family for his Olympics performance, I've seen him go at Adam like nobody's business, one of his first coaching inputs when Adam went to him was to tell him to get on the treadmill and stay on it because his ass was too big for quads (Adam developed disordered eating during his career), he's called his students who're not thin enough 'elephants' he has to teach to jump, he called Eunsoo 'the Korean' in interviews and he treated her shamefully in K&C during Worlds. If all of that is not intentionally being a jerk, I dunno what is. 

 

I am not in any way a fan of Eteri but if all of that doesn't make Raf a jerk but Eteri doing similar things - being mean to skaters about their size, giving media interviews that paint her former students in terribly unflattering light - makes her one, then that's bias. 

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9 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

Admittedly, because I wouldn't make such a statement, I felt it an odd thing to be pointed out... But I agree if it's purely observational, nothing more, it doesn't matter. I am glad I asked anyway, because it did give me insight into assumptions made or not made by at least one other person, though.

 

@rockstaryuzuSorry if I came off too heatedly.

Apology accepted...please be assured that I was indeed making an observation.

 

My own personal reaction to Shoma's coach search is basically "what on earth is he thinking?"

 

And not to undermine my earlier comments, but, you never can tell what will work for an athlete. If Eteri and Shoma can strike the right kind of rapport, maybe it'll be great for him. But who knows. 

 

I do know that no coach should encourage a skater to skate through pain and injury without getting it checked out or treated, however. That's what worries me the most about Shoma right now, that he'll end up with a coach who does that.

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7 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

 

I'm not getting into the rest of it but this bit does speak to your bias. Raf has literally given interviews blaming Nathan's family for his Olympics performance, I've seen him go at Adam like nobody's business, one of his first coaching inputs when Adam went to him was to tell him to get on the treadmill and stay on it because his ass was too big for quads (Adam developed disordered eating during his career), he's called his students who're not thin enough 'elephants' he has to teach to jump, he called Eunsoo 'the Korean' in interviews and he treated her shamefully in K&C during Worlds. If all of that is not intentionally being a jerk, I dunno what is. 

 

I am not in any way a fan of Eteri but if all of that doesn't make Raf a jerk but Eteri doing similar things - being mean to skaters about their size, giving media interviews that paint her former students in terribly unflattering light - makes her one, then that's bias. 

Or maybe I didn't know all that about Raf just yet. I agree, that's more jerky than I thought. 

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10 minutes ago, rockstaryuzu said:

Or maybe I didn't know all that about Raf just yet. I agree, that's more jerky than I thought. 

 

Ah, I have a bad habit of assuming that if I know something, it must be common knowledge, because I don't think I have any uncommon knowledge. :lol: There was a brief period of time when Raf did some good PR about how he had to rethink his approach and learn how to interact with his students in the States and all that, which made it seem like maybe he was seeing the error of his ways and learning to treat his students better, but then he went right back to same old after that. 

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43 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

 

I guess I see what you mean, but for that to work, he'd have to take a bigger step and train somewhere overseas, maybe. But that wouldn't make logistical sense, would it? Without a coaching setup, to train alone overseas is to ask for trouble! Well, maybe we'll see a new Shoma. I was thinking in terms of managing his body, honestly. If he hasn't been used to taking care of the details of his health himself, then spotting when not to overtrain, when to do off ice work and so on - that's a big gamble to take when he needs to be in top form in a couple of years. Now that he has had a couple of recurring injuries, he really does need to be careful and not having a set of eyes that knows his warning signs on him when he trains... I wish him all the best and hope very much that my gloomy thoughts are unfounded and it will all turn out fine for him! 

 

I agree, I hope he stays healthy!   Anyway, after a month with Eteri he may very well turn tails and run back to his old coaches! lol.  I am also hoping (unrealistically) that by spending some time in Russia he will get exposed to different artistic expressions and expand his choreographic vocabulary.  Ofc, Eteri camp may not be the place to do this, but perhaps he will go out and see other forms of art...?  Well, perhaps if they served a good shashlik on the side?   Frankly, I would like to see him graduate from his right-handed exclamation mark (he said he can only do expressions with his right hand).  Anything to get him out of the funk, please...

 

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10 minutes ago, Umebachi said:

 

I agree, I hope he stays healthy!   Anyway, after a month with Eteri he may very well turn tails and run back to his old coaches! lol.  I am also hoping (unrealistically) that by spending some time in Russia he will get exposed to different artistic expressions and expand his choreographic vocabulary.  Ofc, Eteri camp may not be the place to do this, but perhaps he will go out and see other forms of art...?  Well, perhaps if they served a good shashlik on the side?   Frankly, I would like to see him graduate from his right-handed exclamation mark (he said he can only do expressions with his right hand).  Anything to get him out of the funk, please...

 

 

Absolutely! I'd be very happy to see him challenge himself with something new! So far I have seen him bring nuance to his skating only when he's hurt and in pain and I would very much like him to diversify without being hurt or in pain. 

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