2019/2020 Season Program Announcements

[hoodie axel]

51 minutes ago, Old Cat Lady said:

But I think Boyang has a lot of similar weaknesses as Nathan and Shae did a good job of hiding Nathan's weaknesses. When Boyang is on, I don't think Nathan's skating skills or spins are any better than Boyang's and Boyang has more natural personality and expression than Nathan does.  Boyang just needs a bit more swagger and consistency along with the progress he's been making in the skills.

I don't think Boyang and Nathan have similar weaknesses at all At least not in terms of artistic skills. Boyang's weaknesses stem more due to his lacking refinement that doesn't allow him to express some inherent qualities well yet (although he also has lots of room to improve on those). Nathan's skating is essentially him skating at the same energy level throughout the piece (which is what Bourne does for him).

 

I also think people just covering up weaknesses is hardly doing them any favour, but, well, if Boyang doesn't gel well with Bourne (as I don't think he would), it might expose him more, or he might get a program that just doesn't suit him. How will that hide any weakness? And I think he needs more deeper programs, not swagger. His SP this season was a good step, at least for me.

 

I will say I liked her funk program she made for Ice Fantasia, and Boyang's performance of it. But that's not a competitive program.

[PapiandPooh422]

 

[Old Cat Lady]

1 hour ago, hoodie axel said:

I don't think Boyang and Nathan have similar weaknesses at all At least not in terms of artistic skills. Boyang's weaknesses stem more due to his lacking refinement that doesn't allow him to express some inherent qualities well yet (although he also has lots of room to improve on those). Nathan's skating is essentially him skating at the same energy level throughout the piece (which is what Bourne does for him).

 

I also think people just covering up weaknesses is hardly doing them any favour, but, well, if Boyang doesn't gel well with Bourne (as I don't think he would), it might expose him more, or he might get a program that just doesn't suit him. How will that hide any weakness? And I think he needs more deeper programs, not swagger. His SP this season was a good step, at least for me.

 

I'm talking from a competitive perspective not fan preferences.  Minimizing weaknesses until he can get them at a better skill level will do him a lot of favors competitively as it will help his scores which builds reputation and momentum which will help him skate with more confidence and more confidence will help him present his material better.

 

That's why I mentioned the similar levels of skating skills and spins.  Nates PCS skyrocketed and averaged the highest GOE's of the season for his SP step sequence in spite of having edges that are similar to Boyang's.  Bourne's staccato, frantic choreography did well to hide his poor edge quality and the lack of depth in his interpretation while creating the illusion of greater skill and confidence.  I'm assuming you're not arguing that Nate's programs had great expression of inherent qualities or that his programs are deep.  I think Boyang's expressive abilities are better than Nate's and I'm not sure what Nate does better than Boyang artistically - maybe point his toes better? But what Nate DID have that Boyang didn't, was a confident air and that was created in part by the fact that his weaknesses were minimized.

 

But yes, if Boyang doesn't gel well with Shae then of course, she won't be able to highlight his strengths and hide his weaknesses.  But that's true of any partnership and you don't know until you try.

 

But I'm also on the boat of not having Shae choreograph every other program in existence so I'm fine with "not Shae" choreographing for Boyang though I would be interested in seeing what "not Lori" would do now that he's further developed as a skater as I wasn't wild about his programs last year.

[hoodie axel]

4 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

I'm talking from a competitive perspective not fan preferences. 

Then surely if you think Nathan and Boyang have similar weaknesses and that Shae would be able to do with Boyang what she did with Nathan, this idea wouldn't be a good thing at all? Or should Boyang, someone who is being politicked against by the USFS as having poor artistry, go to the USA's home-grown two time WC's SP choreographer to get an SP so it could be pointed out how inferior it is, even if it turns out it isn't?

 

4 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

Minimizing weaknesses until he can get them at a better skill level will do him a lot of favors competitively as it will help his scores which builds reputation and momentum which will help him skate with more confidence and more confidence will help him present his material better.

4 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

But what Nate DID have that Boyang didn't, was a confident air and that was created in part by the fact that his weaknesses were minimized.  

Boyang also had a pretty terrible season mentally, and didn't look like a fish out of the water with his programs, anyway (nor would I say he didn't look confident with the SP because it exposed his weaknesses or whatever). Nathan also had a confident aura because of his WC win, and the overblown scores he was getting as cushions as a result. This is a curious view of things anyway. Boyang mentioned he likes working with Lori. Surely, the material he's helping choreograph with a choreographer he likes can also give him confidence? Especially if he ends up connecting with the style, which is the point of the process anyway? Moreover, this is reductionist. What gives someone confidence can easily not be fruitful for someone. Maybe Boyang will think "I don't like that we just covered up my weaknesses. It's not challenging enough."

 

Also, where exactly is a skater supposed to grow a skillset if his weaknesses are being covered up? Jin improved a lot in his presentation by taking dance classes for programs that began as quite a bit out of his skillset at the beginning of the season. It's surely not like Chen's improved with his weaknesses being covered up.

 

4 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

That's why I mentioned the similar levels of skating skills and spins. 

I think Boyang's spins are better, and are used better in his programs. And his SS last season were used better in his programs than Chen's. Not shocking, seeing that I'd trust Kurt Browning on being able to incorporate SS into a program better than pretty much anyone else. Boyang was always a better performer than Nathan, and with his SP, I'd say he's had better interpretation, too. That's already four things (spins, PE, IN, jumps) that Boyang's better at than Nathan, instead of being on the same level, and he had better conceptual choreography, too, even if we don't want to dissect the pieces movement-for-movement and say definitively which one was better. The judges didn't see it that way, because of Boyang's lack of consistency that gave him poor momentum, and because he was being criticized as lacking artistry/struggling to incorporate both tech and PCS into his skating (and because they're dumb, and I doubt they'd know how to judge choreography worth sh*t), and it won't suddenly vanish because of a choreographer change.

 

For that matter, "similar level of SS" is nothing if you don't analyze their strengths. Which brings us to:

 

4 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

Bourne's staccato, frantic choreography did well to hide his poor edge quality and the lack of depth in his interpretation while creating the illusion of greater skill and confidence.

What Chen lacks is glide and speed. His edges can be quite deep when he tries, and Bourne has highlighted exactly this in his two previous SPs (how else would you be able to produce staccato movement on ice, if not for control over your turns and decent edging?). The fact that he needs to only show it off once in the season, and never try again has more to do with being able to rely on reputation and his federation.

 

4 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

Nates PCS skyrocketed and averaged the highest GOE's of the season for his SP step sequence

It was because it was a "fun" step sequence AND he was the reigning WC. OTOH, can you easily say that Boyang, after having done Spiderman, La Strada, and that ridiculous choreo sequence in Star Wars won't be dinged as being a caricature if he does something like that again? It's not like his programs' themes changed out of pure whimsy this season.

 

4 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

But that's true of any partnership and you don't know until you try. 

OTOH, you can see what a choreographer does, what a skater does, and come to a conclusion. It's choreography, not grad school cookery. It's hardly that I am against him going to a new choreographer, or trying Bourne if he sees it fit. Maybe it will turn out great. I don't think it will currently.

[sallycinnamon]

3 hours ago, PapiandPooh422 said:

 

 

Touching  Looking forward to the program.

[hoodie axel]

 

[ralucutzagy]

 

[hoodie axel]

 

 

[sallycinnamon]

If someone is interested to have a look, there's a list of all the programs on the first page of this thread, men/ladies, pairs/ice dance, just to keep track.

[airi]

Love Kaleo go Jason!

[anski]

On 6/15/2019 at 10:12 PM, sallycinnamon said:

If someone is interested to have a look, there's a list of all the programs on the first page of this thread, men/ladies, pairs/ice dance, just to keep track.

Thanks!!! That’s brilliant 

[Paskud]

JGPspotsJGPspotsJGPspots

[hoodie axel]

We're in a Roxanne drought.

[Paskud]

[Paskud]

Ksenia