Proposed changes for next season

[yuzupon]

This is how you can tell I couldn't let go of this thing yet.

 

Browsing around, found this: an app, adapted from the fisk-8 calculator, for the new 'proposed' COP.

 

Clicky.

[hoodie axel]

I think I'm more OK with the SoV knowing that 10% flat would have lead to -ve quality elements.

[Cerunias]

On 5/25/2018 at 5:01 PM, Tsubakindy said:

 

Well I'm also traumatized by Worlds this year, I had to watch 9999999999 yuzu videos to cleanse my brain. What happened in Worlds 2018 might be the future of mens fs, if they kept pursuing quads quads quads and abandon skating skills, I guess...you lose the quads, and then you have nothing?

 

 

I didn't watch much of Worlds 2018 men's skating. Watching Chen's performance, my only impression was that it was like watching a rabbit jump all over the ice - don't get me wrong, the raw athleticism was great, but if I wanted to watch only raw athleticism, there are other sports I would watch instead that would satisfy that 'need'.

 

I missed the sense of wonderment that artistry combined with athleticism can give, such as the feeling I get watching Fernandez, Hanyu, etc. If ice skating was only about jumps, they might as well just put hurdles at various points over the ice and call it ice-hurdling. Ice skating is as much about artistry as it is about the athleticism in my opinion. The real problem, in my books, is how artistry can be scored objectively, as it can be a very subjective area.

[xeyra]

On 26/05/2018 at 11:06 AM, yuzupon said:

This is how you can tell I couldn't let go of this thing yet.

 

Browsing around, found this: an app, adapted from the fisk-8 calculator, for the new 'proposed' COP.

 

Clicky.

 

They only have -3/+3 GOE, though.

[yuzupon]

12 hours ago, xeyra said:

 

They only have -3/+3 GOE, though.

It's a conversion app, it should calculate the old GOE range into the proposed range. (It also still has 8 jumping passes)

[WinForPooh]

I woke up this morning suddenly okay with the proposal to take away the steps before solo jump in SP requirement.

 

At the moment, Yuzu has complex steps into his solo jump and he gets nothing for it that anybody who has no steps or very simple kinda-steps doesn't also get. It doesn't apply for positive GOE for that jump, obviously, and judges don't make the compulsory deduction. This way, those who do have complex steps, and Yuzu will, can at least get a GOE bullet for it instead of being treated exactly the same as those who have no steps. 

 

It's not ideal but seeing how judging works right now, rewarding those steps might be the only practical thing to do, since punishing the lack of them is simply not happening if your fed has any power. 

 

(Yes I've been watching LGC and getting annoyed with how those beautiful 4Lo entries got the same credit as many other entries that had no steps.) 

[micaelis]

On 5/29/2018 at 7:02 AM, Cerunias said:

 

I missed the sense of wonderment that artistry combined with athleticism can give, such as the feeling I get watching Fernandez, Hanyu, etc. If ice skating was only about jumps, they might as well just put hurdles at various points over the ice and call it ice-hurdling. Ice skating is as much about artistry as it is about the athleticism in my opinion. The real problem, in my books, is how artistry can be scored objectively, as it can be a very subjective area.

Being Yuzu fans we do get spoiled and with Patrick retiring and Javi more or less the same Yuzu becomes the prime mover of the PCS side of things.  Thinking about one person's reaction to Worlds this year and the quadmania that was reigning there, things seemed so bleak mainly, though, because Yuzu wasn't there.  Had he been there in prime condition the story almost necessarily would have been much better (and Nathan would have been humbled).  With rule changes coming along that limit jumps (though not enough, most of us would think) the fact remains that with Yuzu back on the competitive scene things will not be so rosy for the likes of Nathan Chen.  Boyang's move to TCC is an indication that the CSA doesn't think jumping is sufficient although Boyang's been working on improving his artistic skills for some time.  One thing most people aren't thinking about is something that struck me the other day and that is with the FS program duration shortening Yuzu's asthma will be somewhat less of a factor in his own skating and I think will allow him to do things he hasn't been able to do.  It won't be a game-changing situation but it will certainly open up some possibilities for him.  The other factor we should realize is that Yuzu, even if he doesn't employ a full arsenal of quads, when he's on he cleans up on the PCS side and we should remember that it is that Yuzu's record scores are a product of the fact that he is competitive on both the TES and PCS sides of the equation.  Unlike some I think the rules changes coming along are more likely to favor Yuzu than the out-and-out jumpsters.

 

As far as PCS judging I have to agree that such things are subjective.  Yet there are ways to see the superiority of one skater over another simply by seeing how 'dense' his program is.  A dense program has hardly any time when there isn't something going on that is important in a non-technical sense.  Yuzu's programs are always densely choreographed so that even in his setting up for a jump he's doing stuff that is more than just trying to get the speed necessary to launch himself.  That is something most skaters can't do, at least on a routine basis.  Such complex setups for Yuzu are not only routine but very much a part of his winning strategies.  With that in mind there is an objective way of looking at the artistic element and that is to see how much time a skater spends simply setting up for jumps as opposed to how much time he is doing 'artistic' things that aren't part of the step sequence or the choreo sequence or the spin sequences.  If there is very little 'empty' time in his skate you are objectively justified in giving him a higher PCS than those whose artistry is principally confined to the required 'artistic' elements - step and choreo sequences and such, even though you might not find those elements all that attractive.  Yuzu's supremacy comes because there is very little that he does on the ice that is just passing the time.  He's always busy.  And the fact that China is sending Boyang to train near Yuzu is an indication that it knows that Yuzu is the ideal model for their prime male skater and not Nathan Chen.

[moonkat]

Am I the only one who thinks Yuzu may need all the quads to remain dominant?

The young skater are learning them. If ISU is swayed by politics or the need for the sport to seem competitive, men with more quad types will be given more points than those with less, regardless of technique. 

 

 

[hoodie axel]

Skate Canada motioned to strike the proposal that wanted to make sure the presidents of federations couldn't be judges.

Oh, I wonder who the next Patrick Chan in the making is   

[Lunna]

1 час назад, moonkat сказал:

Am I the only one who thinks Yuzu may need all the quads to remain dominant?

The young skater are learning them. If ISU is swayed by politics or the need for the sport to seem competitive, men with more quad types will be given more points than those with less, regardless of technique. 

 

 

Depends on the GOE candies given to the quadsters and do the no repeat quad rule pass.

[Winnie_20]

Looks like the proposal for raising the age limit for seniors won’t be discussed, either. Well, there goes my bucket with popcorn. 

[Guest turquoiseblue]

 

[kaeryth]

1 hour ago, hoodie axel said:

Skate Canada motioned to strike the proposal that wanted to make sure the presidents of federations couldn't be judges.

 

Of course they did

[kaeryth]

Budget report

 

[ralucutzagy]