General Skating Chat

[yuzuangel]

4 hours ago, MrPudding said:

 

some side by side comparison.

I stopped after a few seconds...that was hard to watch..

[xeyra]

5 hours ago, MrPudding said:

 

some side by side comparison.

 

What I noticed most, though, was how much slower Vincent was comparatively, and this was a Yuzu who regularly ran out of steam by the end of his FS. It's still early season, though, he'll work on his stamina. 

 

Edit: And yeah, there are certain similarities, which go beyond the music cut and element timing/placement as well, but it's not a downright copy so I don't think they're in need of a lynching. Yet. 

[Yolo3a]

5 hours ago, MrPudding said:

 

some side by side comparison.

And they said there won't be comparisons 

[Yatagarasu]

15 hours ago, CupidsBow said:

 

I guess it will depend on how the +5/-5 GOE is applied too. If judges are a bit more stingy with the GOE only give +4 and +5 to jumps that don't look laboured, aren't telegraphed, have good air position, good take off, good height, good distance and strong landings then having good technique and quality to jumps will be worth it, but if it's like now where jumps can get over +2 just for being landed without a serious error (even if they look really laboured) then it won't really matter. If PCS value is raised and points are given outside of a PCS corridor, without points being given in PCS because the judges were impressed the skater tried an assload of quads, and GOE is applied a bit more consistently then maybe there will be more balance between quality and quantity. But lbr right now it's worth it to just try it and land a so-so quad vs a perfect triple because judges will be more generous with GOE and PCS to those who pack their programs with quads.  

 

Well they are testing out the +5/-5 now so we'll see what happens later on. In general, it is always the combination of those two things, good rules plus good application of the said rules. It's not as if rules alone are enough; even today if the judges/panels were doing a better job it we wouldn't be in such a tight spot. Looking back, I think we will have a tightening of scores post-Olympics - how long that'll last before it all goes pear shaped again, we'll see 

[Summer]

About the increase GOE range from ± 1-3 to ± 1-5. During the World Championship 2017 coverade on Finnish Eurosport an international ISU judge Mika Saarelainen was commenting and he said that the new ± 5 will be more like current ± 3 in actual points. There just will be more variation in what is now ± 0-3. But we’ll see.

 

[Yatagarasu]

Hello everyone. Today we got the list for the first JGP in Australia, so we now have a place to discuss it all and the participating skaters until the actual event starts and during all the breaks:

 

 

Please join us! 

[SSS]

7 hours ago, MrPudding said:

 

some side by side comparison.

Are they really using the same music piece... I feel so sorry...

[yuzuangel]

Well, I just watched Vincent's free skate.

 

And I understand what everyone's talking about. I think the use of the music makes is painfully obvious that he's slower and stiffer than Yuzu (and those spins are so slow and messy too). And that step sequence, lol déjà vu. He clearly doesn't have the stamina to pull it off yet but no one gains stamina from doing things you already have stamina for, right? I like Vincent, I don't mind him using the same music, I love that music, and I do like his skating. I do hope and think he'll improve because with that choreography there's absolutely no way he will be close to a podium contender; I mean, imagine if one of clean-ish Patrick or Javi or even Nathan and Boyang loses to that?? But it's July, lol, there's plenty of time before even the start of the season.

 

I enjoyed Vincent more at Nationals last year than Jason, and I don't really like Adam's skating, so I would prefer if Vincent goes to the Olympics over one of them. Jason and Adam's skating is little too syrupy (to borrow @sallycinnamon's word) for me. (I'd characterize R+J2.0 and NdP in the same way, actually.) I don't generally like that type of skating, I prefer more subtle and driven by the music. That may be why I like Gracie more than Ashley even though Gracie has issues with skating to the music, period, but her choreography isn't so overwhelmingly in-your-face.

 

Vincent will invite comparison, that's a given, but maybe that's a good thing. He can easily do the comparison himself and see what he needs to work on.

[Yuazz]

Wow. I also just watched Vincent's FS. There's so much similarity on music cuts .. really.. 

But yeah, yuzuru doesn't own that music but there must be a comparison for that, I'm sure. 

 

Vincent's fs more difficult than yuzuru's because of the jumps but I still feel the emptiness of his program. And also he much slower and stiff on ice. I hope he and his team fix it. It will be much difficult with the amount of quads. So good luck for Vincent. 

 

 

[SparkleSalad]

Thought I'd stick my head in to lift the gloom from poor Vincent. I think perhaps this was all a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

I just watched his SP and found it very lovely. Aside from too many quads negatively affecting the artistry of FS, I think he is just more suited to slower music. Perhaps if they could increase the time Kissing You plays it would highlight his strengths more.

 

 

[singcarcom]

16 hours ago, MrPudding said:

 

some side by side comparison.

 

This makes it so obvious that Vincent's skate has a lot more growing to do.  It's a pity that they both are using the same music cut for the dramatic portion of the FS.

 

I think one other thing that is amazing is that Yuzu's R&J 1.0 was conceived while he was doing ~60 ice shows because his home rink was damaged during the 2011 Earthquake. He was still recovering from the trauma of the Earthquake and took part in so many ice shows to get more ice time for his training, and yet could come up with this skate. I think Yuzu has other more memorable skates, but this choreo portion in R&J 1.0 is so full of emotions we could really feel Yuzu's Romeo. 

 

(I see angst and impatience in his Romeo, but not exactly love for Juliet. But I think that's fine and I think Yuzu once said he didn't really understand love back then, so this is understandable. And I think we can also argue that Romeo didn't really understand his passion towards Juliet either.)

[SparkleSalad]

16 minutes ago, singcarcom said:

(I see angst and impatience in his Romeo, but not exactly love for Juliet. But I think that's fine and I think Yuzu once said he didn't really understand love back then, so this is understandable. And I think we can also argue that Romeo didn't really understand his passion towards Juliet either.)

 

I don't think the brilliance of that performance required an understanding of love (I'm sure the love felt by Shakespeare's Romeo's was mostly south of the border, anyway) but of pain and desperation and the feelings of anger and helplessness of being thrust around by fate and forces beyond your control. This is what makes me cry watching it. I've no doubt that his experiences of the disaster helped him express these feelings (feelings which resurfaced in Requiem.)

 

Perhaps we should have a dedicated thread for R+J1. We all have such a strong connection to it.

[kaeryth]

Well, Yuzu himself has said that he'll probably never have a skate like that again (meaning Worlds 2012 FS). It was a culmination of a lot of things. The Tohoku earthquake and being guilty about having been able to skate while everyone else was suffering, being determined to live up to the title of Hope of Sendai/Tohoku, being injured (and hiding it) and trying so hard to protect the injured foot that he fell on the step sequence - the ensuing frustration after the fall, getting back up and cursing during the 3A-3T (LOL). I'm getting a bit emotional just typing this out. hahaha. It was a great skate but, in my opinion, it was the palpable emotion behind the skate that makes it the most memorable. For me, I wasn't even thinking about the character of Romeo - it was just him and his raw emotions that stood out.

[yuzuangel]

7 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

Well, Yuzu himself has said that he'll probably never have a skate like that again (meaning Worlds 2012 FS). It was a culmination of a lot of things. The Tohoku earthquake and being guilty about having been able to skate while everyone else was suffering, being determined to live up to the title of Hope of Sendai/Tohoku, being injured (and hiding it) and trying so hard to protect the injured foot that he fell on the step sequence - the ensuing frustration after the fall, getting back up and cursing during the 3A-3T (LOL). I'm getting a bit emotional just typing this out. hahaha. It was a great skate but, in my opinion, it was the palpable emotion behind the skate that makes it the most memorable. For me, I wasn't even thinking about the character of Romeo - it was just him and his raw emotions that stood out.

I'm so overwhelmed just reading this post lol. Who's cutting onions.......

[xeyra]

1 hour ago, kaeryth said:

Well, Yuzu himself has said that he'll probably never have a skate like that again (meaning Worlds 2012 FS). It was a culmination of a lot of things. The Tohoku earthquake and being guilty about having been able to skate while everyone else was suffering, being determined to live up to the title of Hope of Sendai/Tohoku, being injured (and hiding it) and trying so hard to protect the injured foot that he fell on the step sequence - the ensuing frustration after the fall, getting back up and cursing during the 3A-3T (LOL). I'm getting a bit emotional just typing this out. hahaha. It was a great skate but, in my opinion, it was the palpable emotion behind the skate that makes it the most memorable. For me, I wasn't even thinking about the character of Romeo - it was just him and his raw emotions that stood out.

 

Oh I'm going to need the details on this.