General Skating Chat

[Smultron]

Just when I thought the men's field couldn't get any crazier Vincent starts talking about 6 quads  This season is going to be insane 

[Dori6886]

12 hours ago, xeyra said:

Bringing this in from the USA thread. Regarding the steps into a solo jump and given that the new rules don't really define creative/original moves before the jump but require -3 GOE for elements that don't obey the stipulated criteria, will we be seeing more or less negative GOE on quads with no preceding steps/skating movements, I wonder. 

I think it will be more or less the same. I lost my hope that anything can be changed when they abandoned anonymous judging and judges were still doing what they wanted. Changing rules won't do anything as long as judges won't be pressured to apply them to all skaters fairly. And the way the rule was changed made it only more subjective. 

[Murieleirum]

I feel like there is still a little bit of hope for ISU to listen to us maaaaaybe... if we make enough noise, right? 

There are tons of videos out there now, and comments on forums, that complain about these things - complained about Yuzu's wr in Helsinki being underscored, complained about the quads being overly prized, and so on and so on, right? I'm not sure if EVERY Isu official watches and listens to those things, but... maybe one or two people?

I guess being optimistic is useless. But, for example, thanks to all of Yuzu's fans asking and begging to get a Niigata broadcast, we actually got something today. They managed to listen to us. Of course, we're talking about different situations, but... FS fans who are aware of these injustices are many and pretty loud, right? We are not completely powerless...

[xeyra]

 

1 hour ago, Smultron said:

Just when I thought the men's field couldn't get any crazier Vincent starts talking about 6 quads  This season is going to be insane 

 

The thing with Vincent, though, is that he's only landed 3 quads at a major competition once and he's moving directly to 6? At least Nathan landed 4 at US nationals first before working on 5 and his layout during the season wavered between 4-5 until his Worlds attempt of 6. It was more gradual. I sincerely cannot see how Vincent can go from 3 to 6 quads and still maintain stamina. And not break himself. Please take care of yourself, you're only 16.

[MrPudding]

15 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

I feel like there is still a little bit of hope for ISU to listen to us maaaaaybe... if we make enough noise, right? 

There are tons of videos out there now, and comments on forums, that complain about these things - complained about Yuzu's wr in Helsinki being underscored, complained about the quads being overly prized, and so on and so on, right? I'm not sure if EVERY Isu official watches and listens to those things, but... maybe one or two people?

I guess being optimistic is useless. But, for example, thanks to all of Yuzu's fans asking and begging to get a Niigata broadcast, we actually got something today. They managed to listen to us. Of course, we're talking about different situations, but... FS fans who are aware of these injustices are many and pretty loud, right? We are not completely powerless...

 

I agree, there are also figure skating fans and other skater's fans that see the injustice happening to their favourites and are not happy about that. But somehow i feel that even if the ISU is trying to improve.. it is the judges that makes the call.. i really hope that even with powerful skating federations back up, the judges still give the skaters the marks that they deserve. 

[kaeryth]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

 

The thing with Vincent, though, is that he's only landed 3 quads at a major competition once and he's moving directly to 6? At least Nathan landed 4 at US nationals first before working on 5 and his layout during the season wavered between 4-5 until his Worlds attempt at 6. It was more gradual. I sincerely cannot see how Vincent can go from 3 to 6 quads and still maintain stamina. And not break himself. Please take care of yourself, you're only 16.

 

Yeah... even with the thought of quads = PCS boost shortcut why risk it at 16? Unless he's not planning on competing until Beijing like Nathan? He doesn't even fully rotate his triples sometimes and he's planning quads

 

ETA: This is why I'm so mad at judges and tech panel. They're encouraging something very dangerous.

[xeyra]

48 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

Yeah... even with the thought of quads = PCS boost shortcut why risk it at 16? Unless he's not planning on competing until Beijing like Nathan? He doesn't even fully rotate his triples sometimes and he planning quads

 

It's possible he'll start with a lower number at the beginning of the season and move up to 6? It'll still be a big jump from the 3 he did last season... We'll see what he does today. 

[robin]

6 quads 

Didn't Vincent have prerotation issues, too? Well.... I hope he stays safe and doesn't injure himself. I have an ominous feeling that the tide might turn against the quads soon. This is really pushing it...

[kaeryth]

24 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

It's possible he'll start with a lower number at the beginning of the season and move up to 6? It'll still be a a big jump from the 3 he did last season... We'll see what he does today. 

 

Here's to hoping that if they do plan on 6 then they do that (start with a low number). They might be thinking they need to go Nathan's route in order to be in medal contention - meaning not just having multiple quads but having a 4Lz and 4F. I mean, Nathan's first senior season was just amazing. He was a podium threat in every comp just on his BV alone.

[Valkyria]

I was nodding my head furiously at all the talk about ISU being stuck in the past and shooting themselves in the foot by taking down the Sailor Moon video but then I got whiplash at Vincent going for 6 quads?? What the heck, since when?? *dies*

 

I get it, going for the jumps gets you the most reward, but seriously. These kids are going to break themselves fast 

[axelsandwich]

It's scary how 4+ is becoming the norm..... but I guess if you want to expedite your threat to medals, it's the 'shortcut' at the moment if you can gamble on and land your quads. I feel like it'll take more injuries for the brakes to be put on this train, sadly

[Valkyria]

2 minutes ago, kaerb said:

It's scary how 4+ is becoming the norm..... but I guess if you want to expedite your threat to medals, it's the 'shortcut' at the moment if you can gamble on and land your quads. I feel like it'll take more injuries for the brakes to be put on this train, sadly

 

I agree completely. Upping the tech score has always been the way for newcomers to get into the fight for medals, since developing skating skills and improving performance takes more time than going for the jumps, but still. There are ways and then there are ways, and right now it feels like some are disregarding their health too much in order to charge forward like bulls in a china shop 

[singcarcom]

1 hour ago, Valkyria said:

 

There are ways and then there are ways, and right now it feels like some are disregarding their health too much in order to charge forward like bulls in a china shop 

 

This! These youngsters are too hasty in trying to catch up with the top skaters and the judges are encouraging them. If this quad craze continues, I'm worried that male skaters will peak at a much younger age (< 20?) because who knows what kind of damage they're doing to their bodies. Female skaters peak at a younger age because of puberty, something that can't be controlled. But there's no reason for men to peak that early because of quads, something that certainly can be controlled.

 

FS is such a beautiful sport, so I don't want it to turn into a jumping competition. I really hope they stop equating quads with high PCS because I think that's really unfair to the truly polished skaters. Because of this, I also hope Yuzu would stick to a 4 quad LP layout because a 5th quad wouldn't add more perfection to his performance.

[EisElle]

Huge rant post collecting various grumblings thoughts. Feel free to skip all the gloom

 

Re: people going crazy with the quads

What is really sad is that training for such hard layouts at such young age are very likely bound to lead to shorter careers, which means skating skills will drop across the field, because the skaters simply won't have enough time (as in years of competitive career) to refine them. Yuzu had already good skating skills in Sochi, but if he had r****d at 19, after winning everything he could back in that season, we would have missed so much. The skating world in general would have lost so much.

e.g. Nathan may show good skating skill already in his ex, but he can't bring them in competition still, and he could really grow much more. This is a loss for skating fans.

Of course it's his choice not to devote his life to skating, but I wonder, why skate only for the sake of one win?

Six quads may be mind-blowing today, but tomorrow will come someone with more quads or who knows hell no way quints and then what?

Is it really so important to read your name in some sort of golden medalists handbook?

The performances are what stays, and the ability to make people remember you. So I wish for long carreers and the chance to see a good potential fulfilled.

 

 

Re: rule change

Given how much more vague is "creative" instead of difficult, I expect more leniency in general, which may be fair for those unlucky skaters who were affected by the previous rule and saw others getting away with it, but certainly is really unfair to those who instead were actually managing to follow them  which ticks me off a lot because I'm kinda surrounded by such twisted reasoning on daily basis, like... why encourage people to get better raising the bar, when you can simply put the bar so low anyone can just step on.

How can you expect a shred of consensus about creativity when you don't even have any decent guidelines? More subjective judging on the way, yay, as if it wasn't already bad enough.

 

Also I read somewhere else Vincent has some underrotation and prerotation issues, I really wish tech panels could be allowed to use slow motion for takes off too, not that it would necessarily translate into some proper judging, but oh well, at least it wouldn' be so easy make up excuses.

tbh I think the only thing that should matter isn't how much you are allowed to rotate on the ice before the take off and after the landing (which if I'm not mistaken amounts to the whopping total of 0.75 rotation on the ice before a theoric downgrade), but just how damn long you manage to stay up in the air, but maybe I'm just naive like what the hell, a triple jump should'n be a mere 2.25 rotation in total, what the heck, why do you even call it a triple!

 

And as @Fresca and others have many times pointed out in other threads, bad technique isn't just not much pleasing to the eye, it's also bad for the body of the skater.

I really hope this teens are taken good care by some responsible adults. It's not bad that they want to win, it's bad if they are encouraged to do so in total disregard of their health. Of course I may be wrong and all this people are already taking all of this into account. I guess only time will tell, this new generations are pretty much the guinea-pigs of figure skating (no offense).

as for me, right now I'm just consoling myself that all the craziness is keeping Yuzuru fired up

edit: yay I'm baby swan!

With such a meaningful post

*grinning proud of herself*

[yuzuangel]

I don't think Vincent wants to stay a while in the sport, though.

I have a feeling if he makes the Olympics this year he might retire. At most he will stay until 2022. 

 

Looking at his Wikipedia page, I see him wanting to go to Harvard and pursuing a non-skating path, not having a long skating career or becoming a professional skater/coach/choreographer of some sort.