General Skating Chat

[xeyra]

In the end, I am somewhat expecting everyone to not up their BV too much after all and go safe and troll all my tables and math. 

[Forcefield]

I can only partially internalize everything but thankyoul @xeyra and everyone else who pitched in. Supposedly Hanyu does his own math so I would think he actually does something similar by predicting BVs and making his own calculations. We won't ever get the entirety of his work behind the scenes alongside just his skating and training to be on top but when his fs is announced and he explains his reasons behind it in context of his competitors and the Olympic season I'm sure I'll be awed again by his shrewdness.

[Lunna]

2 часа назад, fluffypooh сказал:

I wonder how long would it take Yuzu to stabilize his 4Lz, hope it won't be like his 4Lo, please no popping ...

Yeah, popping is the most costly thing. Even when Yuzu fell from that 4S first two years in a row he still rotated it and got not so bad points for it. Lately he mostly pops his jumps - maybe it's to prevent from injuries or maybe after the fall it's harder to concentrate on the next jump Idk. So a fall from fully rotated 4Lz will still have very good BV but the pop will cost a lot. But it's seems that with edge jumps 4S and 4Lo it's harder to get the feeling of the right take off when with 4Lz it's way harder to stabilize the landing.

[kitsune]

@xeyra  Could you please calculate what would be the BV of this layout? 

4Lz 4Lo//3F 4T3T 4S 3A2T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz

 

[Altie]

54 minutes ago, Lunna said:

Yeah, popping is the most costly thing. Even when Yuzu fell from that 4S first two years in a row he still rotated it and got not so bad points for it. Lately he mostly pops his jumps - maybe it's to prevent from injuries or maybe after the fall it's harder to concentrate on the next jump Idk. So a fall from fully rotated 4Lz will still have very good BV but the pop will cost a lot. But it's seems that with edge jumps 4S and 4Lo it's harder to get the feeling of the right take off when with 4Lz it's way harder to stabilize the landing.

Actually the 4Lz addition would be great in that regard, since it would allow him more improvisation possibilities in case of a popped jump 

[xeyra]

1 hour ago, kitsune said:

@xeyra  Could you please calculate what would be the BV of this layout? 

4Lz 4Lo//3F 4T3T 4S 3A2T 3A1Lo3S 3Lz

 

 

You mean moving the 3F to the second half entirely (he kind of had his 3F barely in the first half in H&L, true). This would make the BV 0.53 higher, so, 110.36. By the way, Yuzu can do 3A3T in that layout, instead of 3A2T, since he's not repeating any quads.

[Smultron]

It has been very interesting to read everyone's thoughts about possible layouts for the next season. My knowledge about the technical stuff is very poor, so it is fascinating for me how you can speculate about it coming up with all these different ideas. 

 

Meanwhile, I've been struggling with understanding jump combinations. How exactly do they work? Do skaters get any extra points for jumps in combinations? Or do they get points for each of the jumps in a combination just like they would get points for two separate jumps? I don't know if this makes any sense but I hope it does  I would appreciate any help with this  

 

[cucciolo888]

17 minutes ago, Smultron said:

It has been very interesting to read everyone's thoughts about possible layouts for the next season. My knowledge about the technical stuff is very poor, so it is fascinating for me how you can speculate about it coming up with all these different ideas. 

 

Meanwhile, I've been struggling with understanding jump combinations. How exactly do they work? Do skaters get any extra points for jumps in combinations? Or do they get points for each of the jumps in a combination just like they would get points for two separate jumps? I don't know if this makes any sense but I hope it does  I would appreciate any help with this  

 

for example 4T=10.3 3T=4.3 so combination 4T+3T=14.6 and skaters get extra 10%if jump is in second half

[Smultron]

14 minutes ago, cucciolo888 said:

for example 4T=10.3 3T=4.3 so combination 4T+3T=14.6 and skaters get extra 10%if jump is in second half

 

Oh, okay, now I understand!   

[xeyra]

Just now, Smultron said:

 

Oh, okay, now I understand!   

 

Also, combinations don't get any higher BV if they're a harder combination. So, for example, a 4T3T is worth the same as a 3T4T, because they just sum up the Base Value of the individual jumps.

[Forcefield]

4 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Also, combinations don't get any higher BV if they're a harder combination. So, for example, a 4T3T is worth the same as a 3T4T, because they just sum up the Base Value of the individual jumps.

And so BV being the same anyway in or out of combo, the only reason to put jumps in combo at all is to avoid zayaking? Like there's no extra point for it being a combo?

[xeyra]

22 minutes ago, Forcefield said:

And so BV being the same anyway in or out of combo, the only reason to put jumps in combo at all is to avoid zayaking? Like there's no extra point for it being a combo?

 

You can only do 8 jumping passes in a FS, don't forget. You can't do a layout like 4Lz 4Lo 3F // 4S 3T 3A 3T 4T 3A 3S 3Lz because you would then have 11 separate jumping passes. So you need the combos. And you're allowed 3 combos, 1 of which a 3-jump combo. So, combos are good. Missing a combo eats away at your BV. And, as per rules, you can't repeat a jump without one of them being in a combo. 

[Smultron]

43 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Also, combinations don't get any higher BV if they're a harder combination. So, for example, a 4T3T is worth the same as a 3T4T, because they just sum up the Base Value of the individual jumps.

 

Thank you for clarifying this! 

[kitsune]

6 hours ago, xeyra said:

 

You mean moving the 3F to the second half entirely (he kind of had his 3F barely in the first half in H&L, true). This would make the BV 0.53 higher, so, 110.36. By the way, Yuzu can do 3A3T in that layout, instead of 3A2T, since he's not repeating any quads.

How would BV look with 3A3T instead of 3A2T?

[moni]

 

@xeyra, I only reacted to the fact that you said the difference in BV can't be more than 10-15 points. I just wanted to show that it actually can. But yes, only against Nathan, not Shoma/Javi. I know GOE/PCS will change and the skaters won't stay static but really the worst possible scenario (and still not very likely) is Nathan having 3 more quads than Yuzu. 

And I wrote it also because some people (not you and not necessary on the Planet) are panicking "what if Nathan lands all his 7 quads". Well, if he lands it all he will make the history and it will be great but at the same time if Yuzu skates perfectly clean he won't have to worry about Nathan's score. IMHO, I just don't see Nathan to be Yuzu's greatest threat. That's all.

 

It won't be an easy competition/season, there are 6 great skaters, each of them capable of winning (each of them with various qualities including the ability to blind judges) but right now Yuzu has very good chances and I'm not pessimistic. I'm looking forward to new season and all their programs. Just 2-3 weeks and we'll see Yuzu's.