General Skating Chat

[Katt]

3 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

It would seem really weird to count Europeans immediately but not 4CC. Sure, Europeans is considered more prestigious but even so... 

 

I found its weird when I read that too. It didn't mention in any ISU communication too. Anyway, not a big deal ~

[Katt]

14 hours ago, kaerb said:

 

Just said this on Twitter but this was a good move and honestly is the state in which he's the most dangerous. Unlike Yuzu, I totally expect Shoma to be clean if he goes back to his old layout, he seems the type to be very reliable and secure when he's in comfortable territory. Also, given the way they're awarding PCS now and given the impression Shoma gives off when he skates cleanly, I think a clean Shoma even with his old layout will pose a huge danger to Yuzu if he's anything less than perfect. Basically it's just imperative that Yuzu skate a clean program =__=;;;;;;;

 

Now if only Yuzu will reveal his Olys layout but I don't....expect him to. sigh. 

I feel its too soon to be sure that he will go clean with old layout. The only thing I can see is moving his 4F to 1st half will help alot, since he often miss it in 2nd half. But the 4T2T still there, and his 3A combo is not really that consistent. Even with 4 quads, that layout is still very hard and risky.( and does this mean 3lz will be back ???) We'll see how he does in 4CC. Last season, both Shoma and Nathan change layout in almost every comp and they tended to do better in LP but this time, its quite opposite, their SP are stronger. Things worked in the past doesn't mean it will continue this season. Javi keeps his layout for 3rd season, and while his SP finally become quite consistent, he's making more and more mistake in LP. I feel like stamina is a huge problem for most contenders, they look very tired in 2nd half of LP. Its kind of funny that Yuzuru looked very strong in his LP at COR, and that's was him early in the season. If only ...

[xeyra]

19 minutes ago, Katt said:

I feel its too soon to be sure that he will go clean with old layout. The only thing I can see is moving his 4F to 1st half will help alot, since he often miss it in 2nd half. But the 4T2T still there, and his 3A combo is not really that consistent. Even with 4 quads, that layout is still very hard and risky.( and does this mean 3lz will be back ???) We'll see how he does in 4CC. Last season, both Shoma and Nathan change layout in almost every comp and they tended to do better in LP but this time, its quite opposite, their SP are stronger. Things worked in the past doesn't mean it will continue this season. Javi keeps his layout for 3rd season, and while his SP finally become quite consistent, he's making more and more mistake in LP. I feel like stamina is a huge problem for most contenders, they look very tired in 2nd half of LP. Its kind of funny that Yuzuru looked very strong in his LP at COR, and that's was him early in the season. If only ...

 

Shoma also looked very strong in his FS at the beginning of the season. Lombardia, obviously, but even Skate Canada wasn't too bad. It's been downhill from there for everyone... 

[Katt]

32 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

Shoma also looked very strong in his FS at the beginning of the season. Lombardia, obviously, but even Skate Canada wasn't too bad. It's been downhill from there for everyone... 

Yeah, the same with Nathan. His LP were so promising early in the season, but the struggle with jumps make it look worse. I want to believe everyone try to delay their peak for Olys 

[Neenah]

I think Soma and Nathan's issue in the LP is related to the changing layout, not that it is different layout, but because it is harder to prepare a contingency plan in case of mistakes. If it is a layout you are used to, the body can be on autopilot while the mind is working on a recovery plan. However, if the layout is new both mind and body will be confused and that is how you lose focus. Even Yuzuru had that same problem before when he tried to change the layout for ACI and lost focus because his body was trying to do something while the mind was telling it to do another. On the other hand, He did not have problem coming up with a recovery plan at 4CC because he was working with a layout he knew very well and was able to make the changes without losing focus.

 

I don't know what is going on with Javi anymore, he has been having problem with his LP for more than a year now so I hesitate to use him as an example of someone who is skating the same old layout   

[EisElle]

When I read about Shoma going to 4CC I thought about him getting that #1 ranking over Yuzuru  

Ngl, it will be weird and a bit sad too. Oh well, more kuyashii to add to the pile

Shoma is going for the ruote that proved successful last year (killing himself his nerves with lots of competitions) plus his old layout to regain consistency (hopefully we might see some enriched choreo too). He might even need the boost of that win, imo he's lost some momentum during the season after starting it with a bang (not much for the results, maybe, but for the performances). I'm curious to see how Boyang will perform too.

 

Now a warning: grumbling text-wall not suitable for merry holidays 

RE: what @Xen said about pcs of top ladies vs top men, I have the same feeling of ladies being scored more strictly in comparison , tho I think this season the pcs marks have been raised a bit for some ladies (possibly to balance a bit the lead Evgenia usually had on her competitors?). 

imo, people in general might expect more "artistry" from ladies, while it is a bit more of an afterthought for men. In general I would expect higher PCS for ladies because they actually need to work on components to succeed and distinguish themselves, but in the last years some scores tell us some guys have got more "artistic" (or at least better performers) the more quads they jump. I think the difference becomes more apparent when you link the scores to the performances. Usually, messed skates from men are rewarded more than skates with, say, only a pop or a single fall from ladies. In the last GPF, some judges were in panels for both Senior Men and Ladies and for the Free they gave similar PE marks (imo that's the component that could be affected the most by falls and such) to top 3 men and most of the ladies (Carolina maybe being the only one consistently scored higher), but even Kaetlyn (the only lady who fell in her free skate) didn't messed nearly half as much as the top 3 men  (and Wakaba only had a couple pops...I'm not gonna talk about her pcs tho).

One general explanation could be judges use different standards for pcs for men and ladies because they think ladies are "naturally" better in everything related to choreo and expression (even if pcs are more than that), so what's "good" for men is only "meh" when it comes to the ladies. Judges might expect more from ladies because they know they can do better. The average is higher than it is for men, so,to get a 9, you need higher quality than those men whose "quite good" shines in the sea of "unartistic" guys and therefore gets an upgrade to 9 while it would deserve a 7 by its own.  not saying this view is true, it's only my speculation about what the people judging might think

OR it might be because the quads changed the expectations about what skaters can do when their focus and energy go to the difficult jumps. They certainly change the expectations about clean skates, so much that the completely perfect skates are beyond rare and splatfests are the norm. If you (kind of) land your fancy quads, you are not expected to do much more, people will count themselves lucky if you keep some speed till the end of the program and they will shout "masterpiece" if you go as far as doing some convincing choreo for your step sequence. Even if half the time you just pause your actual performing to prepare your jumps (and still end messing half of them), your performance is still gonna be fab and your PCS even more fab because you make people hold their breath and then go "oh" "ah" "ouch" and "whoa" with your jumps (unless your name is Yuzuru Hanyu. Then you might need to actually do what the rulebook asks and more if you want those darn scores) 

So, it looks like there is a quad standard for PCS for (some of) the quad jumpers and more strictness for everyone else, ladies included.

 

I blame this trend we've seen in the last few years, to give generous goe and pcs for quads. I mean, otherwise you can't really explain why judges would score some Jr men close or even better than Jr ladies in pcs in Nagoya,  which, if we look at the actual performances, is weird and in some instances even borderline ridiculous (without any offence to the boys. But it is what it is. Ok, only a few judges on both panels there, but still!).

 

Maybe jumping quads has become prove enough of good ss and I've missed the update in the rules  (there are people who think a fall on a jump should impact the skating skills mark, so, why not, maybe some people also think landing a jump equals good ss). 

Right now, it looks like judges seems to think some men have more "artistry" than ladies because they do harder jumps while keeping some (kind of) quality for the rest, not because their "artistry" is outstanding per se. 9s and 10s should be given for outstanding skating skills, outstanding transitions, outstanding interpretation and so on, but I feel sometimes it goes more like this: "look! One spread eagle in a 5 quad program! Outstanding!" "Look, so much speed on two foot! Outstanding!" "Whoa, how well he moves his arms as he does crossovers up and down the rink for his quads, outstanding!" "Look that expression, that cool opening choreo, outstanding!" "What? Why should he skate on one foot? Why should he do anything with his feet outside of the step sequence? Why should he connect with the music for more than half his program? He already does the quads, that's outstanding enough!" 

Ok, jumping difficult jumps is impressive and everything, but judges are people who are trained to go beyond that, so imo it's their failure as judges when they get drunk of quads and throw undeserved marks.

(Also, some judges were on Sr men and Jr ladies panels. Their scores tell me senior men had better skates, with better choreo, more transitions, higher overall quality and better interpretation. Ok, the girls are so young and they look so tiny, but...)

 

[MrPudding]

11 hours ago, xeyra said:

@MrPudding, I think you might have meant to post these in the General Yuzu Chat instead? This thread is the General Skating Chat.... 

Shoot sorry bout that.. just yuzu news coming through 

[xeyra]

Does anyone know how the practices were scheduled for the Sochi Olympics? How many practice sessions did skaters have before the Team Event and before their respective individual competitions? I wonder how much practice skaters will be allowed to have prior to the events. 

 

Edit:

 

I found this tweet with a drafted schedule for PyeongChang. Official practices begin on February 1 but it's barely legible. 

 

 

[Danibellerika]

I know that Team Event Free Skate Practice that will be open to the public will be on the 10th.   And then Men's Practice open to the public will be on the 15th. I think these will be at the Ice Arena.  They are not on sale yet though despite them saying they would be by now.  I have a tour of seoul scheduled for the 10th, but if our guy is gonna be doing he free skate I'll be scrapping it.  

[CupidsBow]

4 hours ago, Danibellerika said:

I know that Team Event Free Skate Practice that will be open to the public will be on the 10th.   And then Men's Practice open to the public will be on the 15th. I think these will be at the Ice Arena.  They are not on sale yet though despite them saying they would be by now.  I have a tour of seoul scheduled for the 10th, but if our guy is gonna be doing he free skate I'll be scrapping it.  

 

I'm still in work until the 13th or smth which is sooo saaadddd cuz my birthday is on the 10th so it would be really nice to see him practice if he is doing the fs for the team event...

[ainjxx]

do you guys think it'll be good for yuzu to skate for both team sp&fs? i'm worried that he might get burn out since the date for the men's team event and men's singles event are pretty close. he already struggled the last time with the sp & lp being held one after another so.. 😅😥 i'm really worried for him

[Forcefield]

3 hours ago, ainjxx said:

do you guys think it'll be good for yuzu to skate for both team sp&fs? i'm worried that he might get burn out since the date for the men's team event and men's singles event are pretty close. he already struggled the last time with the sp & lp being held one after another so.. 😅😥 i'm really worried for him

 

The pro is that if Nathan, Boyang, Patrick, and Kolyada (assuming they're all going to Olys) also skates for team, it'll be an indirect competition and Yuzu will know what the judges will score him and them for imperfect (or perfect) programs, and it might be good to know his status going into the individual event, on top of shaking out 2-3 months worth of no competitions. Shoma will also be coming back from 4CC so if Yuzu does both team SP and FS it will not only give Shoma rest, but will actually block one of his big competitors from wringing out any nervousness, yet at the cost of himself potentially burning out. So no matter how you look at it from either side, there's bad points and good points to make. I'm sure I didn't even cover half of it. At the end of the day, I just wish there will be no regrets.

[asiacheetah]

On ‎12‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 4:16 PM, MrPudding said:

 

I thought that was my picture for a minute there. I posted the same thing on Tumblr. the one I took was at Haneda Airport on the way to the train station exiting the Domestic terminal so very prominent location.

[Danibellerika]

6 hours ago, CupidsBow said:

 

I'm still in work until the 13th or smth which is sooo saaadddd cuz my birthday is on the 10th so it would be really nice to see him practice if he is doing the fs for the team event...

Ugh, that suuuucks! Can you pretend to be sick? YOLO and all that? 

 

5 hours ago, ainjxx said:

do you guys think it'll be good for yuzu to skate for both team sp&fs? i'm worried that he might get burn out since the date for the men's team event and men's singles event are pretty close. he already struggled the last time with the sp & lp being held one after another so.. 😅😥 i'm really worried for him

I have 2nd and 4th row seats for the team event, so while that would be a treat for me on one hand, on the other I don't love the idea because I fear burnout and I would 100% hate it if he left his best skating on team event ice.  I also was looking at the team event as a low anxiety situation and I just don't feel that way when he's skating because I want him to win all the time .  But he knows his body better than the rest of us and if he thinks it's not too much all we can do is cheer him on. Besides, it's not like he wouldn't do SP and FS run throughs on those days anyway.  I don't think the SP for Sochi bothered him at all. He did a better short in the singles. It was just Olympic nerves that got to him in the free skate I think.  

 

2 hours ago, asiacheetah said:

I thought that was my picture for a minute there. I posted the same thing on Tumblr. the one I took was at Haneda Airport on the way to the train station exiting the Domestic terminal so very prominent location.

Hope it's there when I sneak away for a couple days to Japan while I'm at the games. *fingers crossed*

[ainjxx]

6 hours ago, Danibellerika said:

Ugh, that suuuucks! Can you pretend to be sick? YOLO and all that? 

 

I have 2nd and 4th row seats for the team event, so while that would be a treat for me on one hand, on the other I don't love the idea because I fear burnout and I would 100% hate it if he left his best skating on team event ice.  I also was looking at the team event as a low anxiety situation and I just don't feel that way when he's skating because I want him to win all the time .  But he knows his body better than the rest of us and if he thinks it's not too much all we can do is cheer him on. Besides, it's not like he wouldn't do SP and FS run throughs on those days anyway.  I don't think the SP for Sochi bothered him at all. He did a better short in the singles. It was just Olympic nerves that got to him in the free skate I think.  

 

Hope it's there when I sneak away for a couple days to Japan while I'm at the games. *fingers crossed*

i can't rmb where but i think he did mention before that having the free skate the next day right after the sp also affected him because they have to wake up early for tests and practice. that's why i'm worried 😟. i also rmb how yulia did so well at the team event but faltered during the singles event. while it may be also because of nerves, i think the team event having pretty close to the singles event was also a factor. i hope yuzuru and his team will do the best and wisest decision because i want him to skate 2 clean programs and win his 2nd gold medal because he deserves it and he wants it that much 😣 imma cry if he won't be happy on that day