General Skating Chat

[Sammie]

She is amazing. I think she is in the JGPF? 

 

[Sombreuil]

The problem of what training and isolation from ones peers can do to body and mind goes across all sports and a lot of arts training.  We can all draw the parallels physically with dance/gymnastics etc but  thinking of the isolation issues, my children went to a school that supplied the choristers for the local cathedral- relatively unusually one of them became friends with a chorister and was horrified at the commitment required - practices before and after school, Sunday services, tours abroad during school holidays- not much time for ordinary family and friends interaction, and built in redundancy when that prized boy soprano voice broke.

[Xen]

6 hours ago, LadyLou said:

totally at the moment bringing this from COC ladies' because I'm going to state my opinion on backloading in general and wheter it should be punished in CO (composition).

 

I know I'm probably going to sound moralistic

tbh, even if I know it's an harmless joke, and a funny one, I'm also a bit uncomfortable about the implications of those words because it's like admitting that people watch a program only for the jumps, so if they miss the part without jumps they're not really missing anything worthy or interesting. It's true jumps usually are highlighs, expecially for more casual viewers (and because they are the elements worth more scoring-wise) but following this reasoning I could go and grab popcorn as soon as in other programs all the jumps end, or go back reading this forum during step sequences. (Guilty. But I've done the same even during jumps if I felt bored, sorry. tbh in some programs everything outside of jumps is more exciting than jumps)

And then there is ice dance, should I go and grab popcorn unless they're doing lifts and twizzles?

 

About Alina in particular, since the comment was about her program: she isn't even my favourite female skater, I'd rather watch Mai for my personal enjoyment, but it's not like Alina is just doing 10000 crossover in the first half! And the commentators recognize that themselves. I find more balanced Tracy's commentary (she says she doesn't like the backloading, but the way she says that is...way better).

It's true, Alina's FS gets more exciting in the second half. But the music itself has a crescendo, so I stand by my idea that it would be wrong to just call the program unbalanced and penalize Alina in CO, as long as Alina and her choreo make it work (now, if she actually succeeds in that might be debatable, but the program shouldn't be criticized tout court).

Sure, one could say the "purpose" of that composition is to garner as many points as possible, but they didn't pick a random music, they chose a piece that could suit that purpose and choreographed it accordingly.

 

Also, for CO there is no "even distribution of all elements" requirement. Ice coverage and use of space are mentioned, no whatsoever reference to time distribution, only matching to the musical phrasing is to be evalued.

As long as that specific rule doesn't change, stating clearly that backloaded programs are to be considered poor composition, it still one's personal opinion if backloading deserves lower scores. Unlike some other very specific criteria for, say, SS and TR, that are so often conveniently overlooked. I find that more outrageous than not giving a program lower CO for something that isn't even mentioned in the rulebook (even distribution of jumps).

Ironically, per the current rule Alina's program could instead deserve higher CO marks for originality, because there are only a few fully backloaded programs across all disciplines, senior and junior.

 

IMO the backloading "problem" will solve itself with technical progress, when ladies will start making harder jumps and combos (see Trusova's 4S. She puts as the start of her free, though I'd bet she could do a fully backloaded program with only triples and doubles).

I think that men might go for the full backloading route soon, too (easier for the SP at the moment) until the next technical outbreak. It's becaming  more and more important to have clean skates, as it's already almost mandatory for ladies, and there is a ceiling to the BV you can have with new quads. To have some kind of BV cushion skaters will backload more and more (and it's already happening, since everyone's finally realized that Yuzuru wasn't backloading all his combos and axels just 'cause he could, but to rack up points too).

 

 

Now, if we want to talk about "balance": it's a FACT that, for example, in SEIMEI the second half jumps are tightly packed, unlike in H&L. Should we also give Yuzu lower CO because of that? The program IS less "balanced" than H&L, time-wise. But that layout makes sense with SEIMEI music, so why should I consider more "unbalanced" that program, as long as everything fits the music?

For me, jump after jump there is a gripping crescendo that explodes in the choreo sequence, and the choreo sequence is awesome as it is (and as I fan I can actually enjoy it more, without still being on the edge for another jumping pass).

And all of this goes back to how Yuzuru views jumps: part of the choreo and performance. If jumps are that well blended within the choreo and with the music, on which basis one can deem the program not well balanced?

Well, Kurt does go on and say that Alina can sell the first half well, and I personally have no beef with her long.

 

I  do have to say that David raises a pertinent point in that backloaded programs, especially where all jumps are there, is a harder program to choreograph and perform. Contrary to him, I would even consider brownies in IN and PE if it is a fully backloaded program and I do not even notice it. Because that would imply the skater did a marvelous job capturing my attention, and hopefully that does correspound to higher number of transitions and good skating skills, because otherwise I would feel an empty program. This was why I was never fully on board the idea of reducing the latter half bonus that some forums are tossing around.

 

As for the discussion about quads training:

I thought the current trend is that a lot of coaches think it's necessary for a skater to nail a variety of difficult jumps before they hit their growth spurt? And supposedly that makes it easier later on since it's already in muscle memory, and it's all just fine tuning afterwards. In which case, that's why they would go for it, but I imagine no one asks for a perfectly clean version of the said difficult jump now, just that the basics and technique are clean- and really only start refining it after the growth spurt is over.

[axelsandwich]

On the subject of backloading programs, I agree that a program shouldn't be punished for having backloaded jumps if it matches the music and makes sense within the overall context of a program. If you can find a song that will build up and explode in the second half and make it seem natural, props to you for making a strategic choice and find. I would maybe reward a backloaded program with greater PE but I can't see how it means it's better IN.

 

I think a better IN will almost always be a program that has a more even balance between the elements - you don't have to put all the jumps in the back even if it might be 'musically appropriate'; in fact, I would say that's perhaps a more superficial interpretation of a piece of music to eg. have jumps on every fortissimo note/obvious accent (albeit perhaps much more strategically advantageous). 

 

The problem I have with Alina's skating is that the choreography and composition is so packed with transitions that she's simply unable to give anything time to 'breathe' or just have a 'moment'. One contributing factor is the fact she's rushing from one element to another to make her jumps, and there are several moments where she just barrels through a 'stop and pose' accent moments with really tentative extensions and lack of commitment (which I don't necessarily think is simply because she still needs to build up her stamina...eg. 1:57 where she has to scramble up to make the next transition). It strikes me as 'bad' choreography to not recognise this factor and adjust it (the music cuts and weird splicing is very Eteri/Averbukh and the slow music fade into the fast section grates on my nerves every time but that's perhaps my personal bias talking). 

 

Re: growth spurts, Yuzu's lucky he had his biggest growth spurt relatively early so I think he was able to learn his quads more or less with his current height (would have grown a little but not too drastic), as opposed to Nam who probably learned and gotten used to the rhythm of jumping and then had to not only relearn jumping but unlearn old habits. 

[yuzupon]

9 minutes ago, kaerb said:

The problem I have with Alina's skating is that the choreography and composition is so packed with transitions that she's simply unable to give anything time to 'breathe' or just have a 'moment'. One contributing factor is the fact she's rushing from one element to another to make her jumps, and there are several moments where she just barrels through a 'stop and pose' accent moments with really tentative extensions and lack of commitment (which I don't necessarily think is simply because she still needs to build up her stamina...eg. 1:57 where she has to scramble up to make the next transition). It strikes me as 'bad' choreography to not recognise this factor and adjust it (the music cuts and weird splicing is very Eteri/Averbukh and the slow music fade into the fast section grates on my nerves every time but that's perhaps my personal bias talking). 

 

1

That's it. That's exactly my problem with Zagitova's FS. Only, my less eloquent explanation was that for me "she was too abrupt - the movements do not flow nicely from one to the other". Someone once commented, while we were watching the replay of her jgp last year (played during zamboni time during this year jgp), that she was sloppier then. Seeing her now, I think she is still rather sloppy. I sincerely hope this will change as she polishes her programs more going into the later part of the season. 

[axelsandwich]

3 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

That's it. That's exactly my problem with Zagitova's FS. Only, my less eloquent explanation was that for me "she was too abrupt - the movements do not flow nicely from one to the other". Someone once commented, while we were watching the replay of her jgp last year (played during zamboni time during this year jgp), that she was sloppier then. Seeing her now, I think she is still rather sloppy. I sincerely hope this will change as she polishes her programs more going into the later part of the season. 

I even went back to mark the times in her programs that grate on my nerves (which I've seen in Lombardia and also at CoC) - mostly the moments from 3:11 - 3:20 where she has to hit several 'accent' moments. Instead of trying to have her hit every single one in a space of 10 seconds (which is stupidly difficult, I'm not surprised she barely has time to extend because she literally has 2 seconds until the next one) why not choose 2 notes to really emphasise and actually say something with them? That's what I mean about bad choreography and a narrative 'emptiness' in her program; it's just checking off boxes and music beats and smiling, which is why I'm still fuming that her IN and PE was higher than Wakaba.

 

It's not her fault, I just wish her choreographers would stop getting rewarded for this and I wish she'd have more emotional ebbs and flows in her program. 

 

(I'm aware I sound very biased lmao I guess her brand of classic 'ballerina' pales for me in comparison to Wakaba's program) 

[yuzupon]

9 minutes ago, kaerb said:

I even went back to mark the times in her programs that grate on my nerves (which I've seen in Lombardia and also at CoC) - mostly the moments from 3:11 - 3:20 where she has to hit several 'accent' moments. Instead of trying to have her hit every single one in a space of 10 seconds (which is stupidly difficult, I'm not surprised she barely has time to extend because she literally has 2 seconds until the next one) why not choose 2 notes to really emphasise and actually say something with them? That's what I mean about bad choreography and a narrative 'emptiness' in her program; it's just checking off boxes and music beats and smiling, which is why I'm still fuming that her IN and PE was higher than Wakaba.

 

It's not her fault, I just wish her choreographers would stop getting rewarded for this and I wish she'd have more emotional ebbs and flows in her program. 

 

(I'm aware I sound very biased lmao I guess her brand of classic 'ballerina' pales for me in comparison to Wakaba's program) 

 

You just have to remind me of the injustice dealt for Zagitova at Wakaba's expense

 

But yes, I said it in the CoC Ladies' thread right after the protocol was out. It was insane that Waka got lower IN and PE; even same scores for CO is  - though admittedly my assessment for this component particularly tend to be among the most biased. 

 

Which is why I hope this gets fixed. If judges are hellbent to reward this program like they did in CoC, it better start to deserve it. A totally reverse logic, but well

[Lunna]

1 час назад, kaerb сказал:

On the subject of backloading programs, I agree that a program shouldn't be punished for having backloaded jumps if it matches the music and makes sense within the overall context of a program. If you can find a song that will build up and explode in the second half and make it seem natural, props to you for making a strategic choice and find. I would maybe reward a backloaded program with greater PE but I can't see how it means it's better IN.

I also don't have a problem with backloading if choreo suits the music. At least for now, when there're not so many skaters doing it, with more juniors coming up to seniors with backloaded programmes at can become a problem, but skaters shouldn't be punished for it cuz they're just following the rules. If backloading will bother ISU they can say in the rules that at least 20-30% of jumps should be in the first half and that's it.

[Lunna]

12 часов назад, getsurenka сказал:

Slightly off topic here, but just out of curiosity, at what age or what point of their skating career do skaters normally transition into new coaching team? Like for example, Yuzuru had switched to TCC two seasons after he made his senior debut (age 16), while Cha Jun-Hwan started training at TCC before he made his junior debut (age 14). Stephen Gogolev seems to have been with TCC for quite a while now? and he is only 12 currently. So is there a trend or similarities among the timeline of skaters (esp the ones who trained foreignly) when they made the decision to switch from their original coaching team to a foreign one? I am really curious in how influence of coaching can impact the career of a skater

Everyone has their own path. Some skaters are with the same coach even if not from childhood, but from juniors. There was and maybe still are many discussions on russian forums that Kolyada must change a coach and go to smb. more "famous", but you never know how it'll go with a new one. There also was a lot of critiques the first year Yuzu came to Brian, but now they developed a great team (also I don't think earlier Yuzu could afford such a coach without JSF funding/sponsorship). So there're a lot of factors. I think a very important thing is to have a good coach in childhood who can teach you a proper technique (we can say Yuzu was in right hands) cuz that's the main thing that is very hard to improve later.

[kiches]

I find Zagitova extremely impressive, although she reminds me a lot of Medvedeva, but in a better way. For me one of the most distracting thing about Medvedeva’s skating is how she uses her arms to muscle the rotation of her jumps, I think Zagitova relies less on the momentum created by torquing her arms as she launches into her jumps and it makes it much more pleasing to watch. However, she tends to skate bent at the waist so I hope she improves upon that. The I actually enjoy the last half of her FS with the rapid succession of jumps but find the first half extremely boring. Also major props to her for doing the 3Lz3Lo. 

 

I do find both Medvedeva and Zagitova to be slow during their step sequences. I’m not sure if it’s all the transitions and content they pack into their step sequence, or if it’s just where their current ability is at. I know that many will laud the difficulty of their programs, and its true, they are difficult and packed. However I think there’s a difference between completing a packed program in an above average way and completing it with mastery. I’ve seen Medvedeva skate 3 times (Boston, Mississauga, and Helsinki) and she hasn’t really gotten any faster and the above issues still stand IMO. 

 

I would say that both Medvedeva and Zagitova fall under the “above average” category when it comes to skating skills. If their step sequences were performed by someone with proficient or exemplary skating skill their programs would give off a much more polished and seamless impression than it does now. As it stands they don’t have the skill level to make it not look fragmented and choppy, I find that their limbs tend to trail the rest of their body (Medvedeva’s illusion that she does during her step sequence comes to mind as an example of this). To give a different example I would compare Nathan’s attempts at a spread eagle-3A-spread eagle in his SP last season to Yuzuru’s spread eagle - 3A- spread eagle from his early renditions of Chopin. Nathan’s funky axel aside, they do are doing similar difficult content and transitions with drastic difference in level of skill to execute it beautifully resulting in two very different looking outcomes and impression. 

 

My point is that perhaps Zagitova’s programs would seem more balanced if she was as proficient in PCS categories like skating skills, interpretation, and performance/execution as she is in completing her jumps with difficult transitions and rippons. I think that’s where the imbalance comes for me, clearly one half of the program is done with much more proficiency than the other so it looks very awkward. I think you can select music and adapt choreography to have the jumps in the second half, I really don’t mind so long as your first half is just as spectacular. As it stands, it isn’t in my book. They can sacrifice the quality as a trade off for the quantity of transitions, but if they do, they should be marked accordingly on the execution. 

[Neenah]

My problem with the discussions about Zagitova's PC is that it is being generalized as criticism of backloading when it really isn't. Many people have made it clear that they do not care about the backloading as long as it fits the music (me included), which her program does really well. However, this particular performance of the program was not good.

 

I found the first half actually much better than the second. She was doing more relaxed choreography and her positions where better. Then she started jumping and the quality of skating, transitions, and choreography dropped significantly. That is where I find it imbalanced as you can easily split the program into two parts (artistic and athletic) 

 

She is a really strong athlete with good skating skills and I do find the second half of her program exciting and impressive. It is just that the sum of the two parts do not make one good program, and that is why I think the PC should have been affected, but I guess the judges already decided on their PC scores in the first half and only focused on the jumps in the second. 

[Katt]

I think Alina'FS could be better if they move 2 of her jumping pass to the 1st half, since 5/7 jumps in 2nd half are right on the music which I'm really enjoy. IMO she skate this program better in junior world. There's not much improvement that I saw in her COC's performance so idk why her PCS is 6 pts higher. 

I agreed with @kiches about Alina and Evgenia. Their program are pack with difficult transitions but they haven't have the ability to execute it nicely yet. When I see Alina and Evgenia , I feel their main task is to hit the jump and levels first, everything is behind. Nothing's wrong with it, that's why they are both great competitor, but somehow it make their performance lack of emotions and connecting. They won many things, especially Evgenia, but I never see her have "the moment" with her program. I only hope after Oly 2018, she could work with another choreographer and invest more in her program.

 

[CupidsBow]

I can generally agree with the points about Alina and Evgenia and the general backloading issue. I think it's fine to use the system to your advantage if you can, and they can, so why not. Same with the excessive tanos and whatnot; if it helps up the score then I can't really knock them for doing it even if I think they are more effective as a spectator on just a few jumps in a program. But both strategies are perfectly fine if it is done in a way that compliments the music. As of right now, they don't structure programs to compliment the music, I find both of their PE and IN to be lacking, and I totally agree with @Katt that their focus is entirely on getting the jumps, getting the levels and racking up the points with everything else being left in the dust. Their programs are packed with transitions but with no breathing space for either skater to really commit to the movement and execute them well, making their programs look busy/borderline messy (here I think Evgenia is better in that her programs seem less messy than Alina's). They could both afford, and would probably benefit, from taking a little out so they could commit more to what they are doing. I generally don't like the feeling with either of them that they are kind of skating-with-music-in-the-background instead of skating with the music; the music complimenting their skating as their skating in turn compliments the music. Obviously not everyone can be like Yuzuru, Jason, Misha and Patrick, who I think really work with their music in wonderful harmony, but I get the impression Alina and Evgenia don't even try. They don't need to. The judges are going to give them the PCS anyway, even in areas they are weak in (PE, IN, CO is questionable). It makes their programs really difficult to engage with and really...unmemorable. I was pretty p*ssed off when Alina got highe PCS than Wakaba, particularly with them skating back to back, and I think Wakaba should have won.
There's no wow/memorable moment with Alina or Evgenia's programs. And the only time Evgenia really shows any kind of character in her programs is when she's miming. I would really like to see Evgenia in particular work with a different choreographer. And, you know, judging to be even-handed. In PCS and Tech. Same issue as with Shoma; if there is an edge to be called, a messy take off or a sideways/forward entry/excessive rotation on the ice on take off or landing it should be called. If the tech panel is going to be lenient on some skaters they should be lenient to all skaters, and if they are going to be strict on some skaters they should be strict to all skaters. Just saying. I have previously defended Shoma but not because I think bad technique should get a pass or isn't a big deal, more the problem with Shoma tends to get overblown as if it's every jump when it's not - he does have some okay ones. Same goes for Evgenia tbh. I generally don't like how she jumps, it tends to really disrupt the flow for me the way she enters them. I don't get why at the moment jumps that look like they are a struggle are being seen favorably. There should be more of a reward for having good technique and effortless appearance. Just like in PCS there should be more reward for actually putting together a coherent, well-constructed program that compliments the music choice and in well performed.

[fireovertheice]

 

As it has been said by others, I do not think that there is a problem of backloading or of an unbalanced program as the structure and the coreography have an unity and an original idea at their basis to interpret the music cuts of the music chosen (see the ISU defintion for this part of the scores for Composition) and as long as the skater is able to perform it well all through its lenght. 

 

It is the same problem of the number and intricacy of transitions, or the number of quads. In my opinion it depends not so much by their number or distribution, but in how well they are or could be performed and in how well the fit all together and with the music. And here the ability of the coreographer and of the skaters are of much relevance.

Just these days while counting the transitions and crossovers I looked also at their distribution in the programs of men and this led me to observe better also their structure.

 

I will post here in a first table the first results of these counts and observations on the men's FS at the competions of GP of this season until now (I will do something better in a spreadsheet with the average of the two competitions before the GPF). In the % time of one foot skating on the total time of one foot skating (values in the first row) I didn't report the few seconds at the beginning of the programs, because they are a couple to four seconds max  for all skaters.

With "Trans. I" meant the transitions between jumps in the first part of the program, and so with "Trans. II" those of the second part.

 

Type of data	Y.H./CoR	J.F./IdF	M.K./CoC	N.C./CoR	B.J./CoC	S.U./SC	J.B./SC
Jumps layout	3* quads 1 4T+3T 1 + (1) trips 1 3A 1 3A+comb	2 quads 1 4S+2T 2 trips 1 3A 1 3A+comb 1 3F+L+3S	2 quads 1 4T+3T 2 trips 1 3A 1 3A+comb 1 3Lz+L+3S	3* quads 1 4Lz+3T 1 4T+2T+2Lo 1 trip 1 3A 1 3A+comb	3 quads 1 4T+comb 1 trip 1 3A 1 3A+L+3S 1 3Lz+3T	3 quads 1 4T+2T 1 trip 1 3A 1 3A+L+3F 1 3S+3T	1 quad 2 trips 1 3A, 1 2A 1 3A+comb 1 3Lz+L+3S 1 3Lz+2T
Tot. time 1f.skating	56 secs	37 secs	40 secs	37 secs	42 secs	40 secs	49.50 secs
Nr. 1f. revolutions	35	34	28	25	28	24	34
Nr. crossovers	28	29	30	44	36	54	38
% 1f.sk. Trans. I	21.42	9.45	12.50	21.60	17.85	15.00	18.18
Tot. time 1f.sk. Trans. I	13.60 secs	3.5 secs	5 secs	7.99 secs	7.49 secs	6 secs	9 secs
% 1f.sk. Trans. II	12.50	18.91	22.50	21.60	16.66	17.50	18.18*
Tot. time 1f.sk. Trans. II	7 secs	7 secs	9 secs	7.99 secs	6.99 secs	7 secs	9 secs*
% 1f.sk. StSq	41.96	27.00	50.00	54.05	33.30	50.00	40.40
Tot. time 1f.sk. StSq	23.49 secs	10 secs	20 secs	19.99 secs	13.99 secs	20 secs	20 secs
% 1f.sk. ChSq	21.42	32.43	8.75	2.70	27.30	5.00	22.20
Tot. time 1f.sk. ChSq	11.99 secs	12 secs	3.5 secs	1 sec.	11.46 secs	2 secs	11 secs
SS / TR scores	9.54 / 9.18	9.43 / 9.07	8.89 / 8.57	8.96 / 8.57	8.21 / 7.54	9.29 / 8.89	8.86 / 9.04
PCS scores	94.38	92.36	87.14	88.40	78.78	91.16	90.66

 

As you can see in some elements and in some part of the program  the difference of Yuzuru and the others is evident. He skates more (a lot more...) than the others on one foot, and also changing direction on one foot more than the others. Nevertheless, he is one of the fastest skaters and with one of the most complex and difficult programs if terms of jumps layout.

 

What is amazing is also the well balanced distribution of one foot steps and transitions throughout the program of Yuzu. The value of the first set is equal of the last one (a sort di circular structure), with a strong part in the StSq that anyway leave energy not only to jump in the second part, but also to give a strong and rich performance in the Coreographic Sequence.

 

This led me to look better the Choreo Sequences of the others: I invite you to so the same, if you do not have done it.

I have to say that the ChoreoSequences of Nathan and of Shoma are substantially a Spread Eagle (hold 2 secs) in the first case and a Cantilever (hold 2 secs) in the second plus one step or turn and crossovers. Something better Kolyada, while Jin is the only one to try to do more steps and turns in a real sequence.

In the ChSq Yuzuru not only does steps and turns on one foot and the Hydroblade on one foot (hold 2 secs), but also the Ina Bauer (hold 2 secs).

I know that part of these elements are rewarded also in TES and with GOE.  But if we speak of balance and of unity of the programs, we have to look not just to the distribution of the jumps, but also of all the others elements (see for example the spins: mostly at the end of the program for Kolyada and Chen) and transitions, or the lenght, the pattern and the complexity of the choreographic sequence.

 

You can see here how the coreographers and the skaters have build those programs to follow their idea of the program, but also to highlight the strenghts and to to "hide" the weaknesses of the skaters, as it is right to be.

 

It would be interesting if someone could try to count and to analyze the programs of the top ladies (I really can't :)).

 

Sorry for the long post .

 

Edit. 1: on the basis of some of your observations and questions, I added the total/absolute time of one foot skating for the different parts of the program (Trans. I, Trans. II, StSq and ChSq) under the percentage on the total amount. I hope it is clearer in this way. If not, let me know.

* Jason Brown have a different distribution of spins, that break transitions and jumps/elements in 3 parts: I reunited the 2nd and the 3rd part in Trans. II to make the comparison with the others.

Edit. 2: I added Javier after IdF

[CupidsBow]

9 hours ago, fireovertheice said:

 

As it has been said by others, I do not think that there is a problem of backloading or of an unbalanced program as the structure and the coreography have an unity and an original idea at their basis to interpret the music cuts of the music chosen (see the ISU defintion for this part of the scores for Composition) and as long as the skater is able to perform it well all through its lenght. 

 

It is the same problem of the number and intricacy of transitions, or the number of quads. In my opinion it depends not so much by their number or distribution, but in how well they are or could be performed and in how well the fit all together and with the music. And here the ability of the coreographer and of the skaters are of much relevance.

Just these days while counting the transitions and crossovers I looked also at their distribution in the programs of men and this led me to observe better also their structure.

 

I will post here in a first table the first results of these counts and observations on the men's FS at the competions of GP of this season until now (I will do something better in a spreadsheet with the average of the two competitions before the GPF). In the % time of one foot skating on the total time of one foot skating (values in the first row) I didn't report the few seconds at the beginning of the programs, because they are a couple to four seconds max  for all skaters.

With "Trans. I" meant the transitions between jumps in the first part of the program, and so with "Trans. II" those of the second part.

 

Type of data	Y. H./CoR	M.K./CoC	N.C./CoR	B.J./CoC	S.U./SC
Tot. time 1f.skating	56 secs	40 secs	37 secs	42 secs	40 secs
Nr. 1f. revolutions	35	28	25	28	24
Nr. crossovers	28	30	44	36	54
% 1f.sk. Trans. I	21.42	12.50	21.60	17.85	15.00
% 1f.sk. Trans. II	12.50	22.50	21.60	16.66	17.50
% 1f.sk. StSq	41.96	50.00	54.05	33.30	50.00
% 1f.sk. ChSq	21.42	8.75	2.70	27.30	5.00

 

As you can see in some elements and in some part of the program  the difference of Yuzuru and the others is evident. He skates more (a lot more...) than the others on one foot, and also changing direction on one foot more than the others. Nevertheless he is one of the fastest skaters and with one of the most complexes and difficult programs if terms of jumps layout.

 

What is amazing is also the well balanced distribution of one foot steps and transitions throughout the program of Yuzu. The value of the first set is equal of the last one (a sort di circular structure), with a strong part in the StSq that anyway leave energy not only to jump in the second part, but also to give a strong and rich performance in the Coreographic Sequence.

 

This led me to look better the Choreo Sequences of the others: I invite you to so the same, if you do not have done it.

I have to say that the ChoreoSequences of Nathan and of Shoma are substantially a Spread Eagle (hold 2 secs) in the first case and a Cantilever (hold 2 secs) in the second plus one step and crossovers. Something better Kolyada, while Jin is the only one to try to do more steps and turns in a real sequence.

In the ChSq Yuzuru not only does steps and turns on one foot and the Hydroblade on one foot (hold 2 secs), but also the Ina Bauer (hold 2 secs).

I know that part of these elements are rewarded also in TES and with GOE.  But if we speak of balance and te unity of the programs, we have to look not just to the distribution of the jumps, but also of all the others elements (see for example the spins mostly at the end of the program for Kolyada and Chen) and transitions, or the lenght, the pattern and the complexity of the choreographic sequence.

 

You can see here how the coreographer and the skaters have build those programs to follow their idea of the program, but also to highlight the strenghts and to to "hide" the weaknesses of the skaters, as it is right to be.

 

It would be interesting if someone could try to count and to analyze the programs of the top ladies (I really can't :)).

 

Sorry for the long post .

 

Will you be doing this kind of analysis through the season? Is it okay to add to my men's comparison spreadsheet?