General Skating Chat

[SSS]

1 hour ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

Based on my own observations, here's how I'd sum up the top 6 in terms of performance and jumps (in comparison to the current high standard):

 

Uno, S.: Has good performance and skating skills, has decent 3A, has a good variety of quads but all of which are lacking in true quality still

(Consistency level of clean or cleanish skates: High)

 

Jin, B.: Has decent variety of good-looking quads and a decent 3A, has decent skating skills but somewhat lacking in performance ones

(Consistency level: Medium to low)

 

Chen, N.: Has all quads in decent quality but a bit of a wonky 3A, has good performance skills and decent skating skills; lacking the ability to marry the two in a single performance

(Consistency level: High)

 

Chan, P.: Has lower level quads in great quality (but is better at one than the other), a wonky 3A, and performance and skating skill for the ages; is able to combine them all nicely in a single performance

(Consistency level: Low)

 

Fernandez, J.: Has lower level quads in great quality, a nice 3A, and great performance and skating skills; is able to combine them all nicely in a single performance

(Consistency level: Low)

 

Hanyu, Y.: Has a great variety of fantastic-looking quads, a 3A that's even more fantastic than his quads, superb performance and skating skills; is able to combine them all seamlessly into a single cohesive performance with very little room separating the performance and technical aspects

(Consistency level: Low)

the last sentence hurt so badly compared to the two Highs.

 

Hope Yuzu will successfully convert his superb SS to level 4 this season soon.

[WinForPooh]

9 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

@golden: Your reasoning made sense though, which made me realize I shouldn't have lumped SS and performance together. See when your performance game is strong, you can mask weaknesses but when it's not, it gives an impression of having weaknesses that aren't really there. I've amended my post to properly separate the two in Jin's case.

 

@WinForPooh: Hmmm. I'm also considering it from the angle of how well they're blended in with the program, though. So while great on their own, and better than the younger two in general, which is why I called them nice-looking, they still stick out like sore thumbs in his programs. Like I'd put Chan's 4T, Fernandez's 4S and Hanyu's 4 everything (except for the 4Lz--for now) well and beyond his.

No arguments there.

 

But I really think another year before the pressurecooker of an Olympic season would've given the younger ones time to find a better balance. (If their skating federations and coaches and so on would cooperate, of course.) But then we'd have another younger generation (Vincent lol) with the same story.

 

We forget poor Mika Kolyada completely in all of this. His 4lz in practice looked great and he can really sell the right kind of programme.

[golden]

17 minutes ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

@golden: Your reasoning made sense though, which made me realize I shouldn't have lumped SS and performance together. See when your performance game is strong, you can mask weaknesses but when it's not, it gives an impression of having weaknesses that aren't really there. I've amended my post to properly separate the two in Jin's case.

 

 its funny as boyang has said in previous interviews that he wasn’t a strong jumper to begin with, (from here), but now has one of the best and certaintly one of the most consistent quad lutzes, and his quad toe/sal are pretty good too. so i dont doubt that he could improve his performance qualities to the point where his mistakes arent as evident, in the future. 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

Just now, goldenさんが言いました:

 

 its funny as boyang has said in previous interviews that he wasn’t a strong jumper to begin with, (from here), but now has one of the best and certaintly one of the most consistent quad lutzes. so i dont doubt that he could improve his performance qualities to the point where his mistakes arent as evident, in the future. 

 

Lol. If you can remember, Hanyu was hopeless with jumps way back in his junior days, as well. He was more the bendy lil' spinner, like Brown. It's a wonder how things have developed, and how you should never write off those with glaring weaknesses when young as unable to do a complete 180. Like they could always be that kid who's always been the shortest class but comes back this tall stranger after summer vacation. xD

[golden]

7 minutes ago, WinForPooh said:

We forget poor Mika Kolyada completely in all of this. His 4lz in practice looked great and he can really sell the right kind of programme.

 

i think mikhail has the best chance to break into the top six, with strong foundations and great jump technique (other than his lack of flip, im really not a fan of when skaters choose to completely omit a jump instead of working to fix it ) and a strong federation certaintly isnt hurting him, but he absolutely needs to land the quad lutz and the salchow, and not pop his axels. 

[Xen]

1 hour ago, xeyra said:

Here's the 4Lz analysis I mentioned earlier:

 

 

Source

Check the source for comments from Arnaud Muccini, from Perform Live, who analyzed this.

 

Edit: 

For comparison, here's their analysis of Boyang's 4Lz from Worlds 2017 FS.

On Facebook? Mahhhhhh, firewall of China.....

what did they do on his practice ones? Same distance, less height but better lean of the body at takeoff, aka straighter?

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

1 時間前, WinForPoohさんが言いました:

We forget poor Mika Kolyada completely in all of this. His 4lz in practice looked great and he can really sell the right kind of programme.

 

1 時間前, goldenさんが言いました:

 

i think mikhail has the best chance to break into the top six, with strong foundations and great jump technique (other than his lack of flip, im really not a fan of when skaters choose to completely omit a jump instead of working to fix it ) and a strong federation certaintly isnt hurting him, but he absolutely needs to land the quad lutz and the salchow, and not pop his axels. 

 

Guy's orbiting around the top 6 for sure. He's the only one in the rest of the men's field currently close enough to do that. Though I'm not sure how things will change with Zhou on the horizon. Anywho, Kolyada's definitely not too far off compared to the rest of the field but he crashes and burns a wee bit too often to really be able to assert himself and land among them so far. >_< But with the way he suddenly rose to where he now is, certainly not writing him off at all.

 

 

Edit: If we go by official world standing though, he's actually in the top 6 and Chen isn't. xD Unless that's changed with this victory, of course. I dunno how to calculate these things.

[WinForPooh]

7 minutes ago, golden said:

 

i think mikhail has the best chance to break into the top six, with strong foundations and great jump technique (other than his lack of flip, im really not a fan of when skaters choose to completely omit a jump instead of working to fix it ) and a strong federation certaintly isnt hurting him, but he absolutely needs to land the quad lutz and the salchow, and not pop his axels. 

I prefer him omitting it to doing it and depending on his fed to get the edge calls sorted out. The ladies flutz and lip so much! But his lutz looked really really good in practice.

[xeyra]

5 minutes ago, Xen said:

On Facebook? Mahhhhhh, firewall of China.....

what did they do on his practice ones? Same distance, less height but better lean of the body at takeoff, aka straighter?

 

 

They didn't analyze his practice ones for comparison due to lack of quality clips and different angles.

[GreatLakesGal]

2 hours ago, golden said:

 

if we’re categorising skating skills as one has good and the other not so good, i certaintly wouldnt put nathan and boyang this way around. he’ll never be patrick chan, but boyangs edges are decent, his speed tends to be better than or equal to nathan’s and he utilises multidirectional and one foot skating much more in his programs. nathan is often noted for his lack of knee bend too, and while boyang doesnt use his knees as much as he probably should, he does use them a little more. thats just my take on things though. 

 

I agree. Chen is overrated and Jin is underrated. And I can tell you why:  Chen's an American with a strong skating federation and they are calling in all their chips to try and get him an OGM. Figure skating is pretty much dead in my country and the USFSA is desperate to try and revive it. They (stupidly) think that someone winning an OGM will do the trick and, for a time, they pinned their hopes on Gracie Gold and Jason Brown. But that didn't work out  as planned and so now they're hoping Nathan can do it for them. 

[Murieleirum]

1 hour ago, GreatLakesGal said:

 

I agree. Chen is overrated and Jin is underrated. And I can tell you why:  Chen's an American with a strong skating federation and they are calling in all their chips to try and get him an OGM. Figure skating is pretty much dead in my country and the USFSA is desperate to try and revive it. They (stupidly) think that someone winning an OGM will do the trick and, for a time, they pinned their hopes on Gracie Gold and Jason Brown. But that didn't work out  as planned and so now they're hoping Nathan can do it for them. 

 

At the Kiss and Cry, Rafael seemed happier than Nathan to discover that he won a Grand Prix series. I wonder if Nathan actually suffers a little from the environment that surrounds him. I don't see him as blind as he might seem. 

[golden]

1 hour ago, GreatLakesGal said:

 

I agree. Chen is overrated and Jin is underrated. And I can tell you why:  Chen's an American with a strong skating federation and they are calling in all their chips to try and get him an OGM. Figure skating is pretty much dead in my country and the USFSA is desperate to try and revive it. They (stupidly) think that someone winning an OGM will do the trick and, for a time, they pinned their hopes on Gracie Gold and Jason Brown. But that didn't work out  as planned and so now they're hoping Nathan can do it for them. 

 

i honestly find it incredibly disheartening that a messy nathan with pops/stepouts can outscore boyang's highest pcs on a completely clean performance, but such is the system and federations play a huge role in their scores, especially in the olympic season. 

 

i dont think nathan winning an olympic gold will create a true lasting influence on the state of figure skating’s popularity in the us. i think they’ll need a ladies champion, because that’s mostly where the inspiration for new skaters seems to come from, taking source from things i see across the internet. and frankly, i dont see any of the us ladies currently beating any of the russian ladies, or the japanese ladies unless there is a complete disaster, and i cant count out the two top canadian ladies either. its so improbable that seven girls would all have horrendous skates that meant the us ladies could take gold in singles.

 

davis and white won gold in sochi, it didnt boost anything, the shibutani's push the social media side and still aren't bringing in fans, although their vlogs are very appreciated by current fans. lysacek's win didn't help anything in 2010. nathan seems to be more popular in the japanese side of fs fandom, where it looks like the men take dominance because of yuzu and his popularity, which is great for him as a skater to have good support behind him, but means virtually nothing to the us. however, mention the ladies champions of the 90s-00s and people will know who they are. 

 

of course, i do not want nathan to fail. if he skates the best on the night and wins, ill be elated for him. same for any of the men. but to be pushed and pushed through politicking, it isnt fair on the other skaters, and it isnt fair on him either, he has the talent and potential to win through the power of his own skating.

[xeyra]

 

4Lz analysis, now in video format. 

[Xen]

9 hours ago, xeyra said:

Here's the 4Lz analysis I mentioned earlier:

 

 

Source

Check the source for comments from Arnaud Muccini, from Perform Live, who analyzed this.

 

Edit: 

For comparison, here's their analysis of Boyang's 4Lz from Worlds 2017 FS.

I went to the facebook page and there were only 8 comments. Not sure if I'm missing something, but there was never a hint about why Yuzu's 4Lz landing was unstable?

Compared to Boyang's the things that stand out to me are a) not as much distance; b) more pronounced tilt in the air (25 vs 16 degree body angle in air). So is the prognosis for Yuzu to increase distance or what to fix that tilt? 

 

[beki]

Isn't Yuzu's 3Lz tilted too? Maybe just because he puts it at the end of his programs when he's tired. Forget quads, I remember the days that triple wasn't reliable! He's come far.