General Skating Chat

[Anony]

5 hours ago, Aotoshiro said:

re: Shoma, at least now his costume gives off more winter-y feeling  *desperately looks for good sides*

I guess if they want to prove themselves right, they first need to make things as they are now look much worse than they already were to then point to that and scream: "see? THAT'S why we changed the rules, praise us for being good!" like a spoiled child who tries to make others look bad so it looks good  even if that others is also them... *where's that Yuzu facepalm!spiral gif when you need it*

I actually don't like his costume. Like I know it's basically Loco but grey, but honestly the grey doesn't look nearly as eye catching as the red. Also grey + ice is a huge no for me.

[SparkleSalad]

30 minutes ago, Anony said:

I actually don't like his costume. Like I know it's basically Loco but grey, but honestly the grey doesn't look nearly as eye catching as the red. Also grey + ice is a huge no for me.

 

I liked the front but not the weird sparkly spine on the back. It was a bit creepy. And I wouldn't mind the grey so much if it wasn't velvety but it is so I don't like it. It doesn't feel crisp enough for winter.

[Amura365]

I took one look at Shoma's Lombardia Trophy SP score and I sighed. The judges are really going to town this season it looks like. The judges were really really generous with Shoma's scores makes you wonder what they'll score everyone else once the GP season starts.  It almost feels like Shoma's the judges new anointed one.

[meoima]

19 minutes ago, Amura365 said:

I took one look at Shoma's Lombardia Trophy SP score and I sighed. The judges are really going to town this season it looks like. The judges were really really generous with Shoma's scores makes you wonder what they'll score everyone else once the GP season starts.  It almost feels like Shoma's the judges new anointed one.

Only the American judge gave quite fair score, he is the only one who gave rightfully -2 for the solo quad without step before it. If they truly follow the rule it should be automatic -3 but I guess with this kind of judging -2 is already a lot.

[CupidsBow]

Yeah, Shoma's score as a bit.... The GOE on the 4F should've been lower and I think his PCS should've been a bit lower too. I'm hoping that through the season he'll perform a bit more with the music rather than to it and he'll add a bit more one-foot skating (and ofc the steps before the 4F. He's not the only one who gets away with no steps leading in to the solo quad and no one should be getting away with it). seems a bit much to be giving out such big scores right a the start of the season. I wish judging would be more even handed.

 

I'm also not sure about Nathan's SP. I like the choreography and that he's gonna be able to show a bit more personality than last season but I wish he'd skate a bit faster. It should come together nicely later in the season but it kinda depends on what will end up getting lost when he's got all his quads in place.

[katonice]

1 minute ago, CupidsBow said:

Yeah, Shoma's score as a bit.... The GOE on the 4F should've been lower and I think his PCS should've been a bit lower too. I'm hoping that through the season he'll perform a bit more with the music rather than to it and he'll add a bit more one-foot skating (and ofc the steps before the 4F. He's not the only one who gets away with no steps leading in to the solo quad and no one should be getting away with it). seems a bit much to be giving out such big scores right a the start of the season. I wish judging would be more even handed.

 

I'm also not sure about Nathan's SP. I like the choreography and that he's gonna be able to show a bit more personality than last season but I wish he'd skate a bit faster. It should come together nicely later in the season but it kinda depends on what will end up getting lost when he's got all his quads in place.

Yes, now that I think about it, Nathan seemed to be focusing more on his presentation today.

Tbh, I liked his performance more than Shoma's, though yes I noticed too he was slow.

 

I guess he's still trying to adjust to working with the more complicated choreography and more jumps in the 2nd half.

So far, I like his program though.

[katonice]

7 minutes ago, meoima said:

Only the American judge gave quite fair score, he is the only one who gave rightfully -2 for the solo quad without step before it. If they truly follow the rule it should be automatic -3 but I guess with this kind of judging -2 is already a lot.

Too bad the American judge's score for the PCS (he seemed to be the sanest one there too) probably all got thrown out and didn't count lol.

 

[meoima]

1 minute ago, katonice said:

Too bad the American judge's score for the PCS (he seemed to be the sanest one there too) probably all got thrown out and didn't count lol.

 

lowest score got thrown out so the second lowest got counted. So yes Japanese federation should be aware. The American know of Shoma's cheated jumps and no steps before quads and the huge amount of 2 foot skating that Shoma is displaying. The American know and all the American and the Canadian and their fellow will do is easy, just score it correctly to the rules and it will all matter. 

[Xen]

Well if I view the PCS scores as just skater A relative to skater B, then okay, I can kind of get Shoma's scores. But someone needs to explain to me Deniss's scores then.

Right now I'm still not really into Shoma's SP. The movement is too much like Loco, then it's all intense looks...switch the music and it would work.  And even while watching Alina's SP,  her movements still make me wonder if her team just slapped on a different dress, music and stuck to last season FS's movements and steps, and almost in the same spots and order too. Well she does backload, so I'm not that surprised-you can only do certain things in a specific order if you backload (which is depressing).

 

And now thinking about how the PCS scores are being played, I'm a bit depressed. It seems that once someone gets into a comfort zone, they just stick to a single style ad nauseum. Granted, it is the olympics season, and Alina's first senior season (and she might not even be the center of attention on her team).  But I hope that at some point, both Shoma and Alina can just try something different. Heck, even closing their eyes at the opening bit a la Ballade would be different....well actually, for ladies its more depressing, since the BV reduction would hit ladies' TES, the differentiation is going to be in the PCS and GOE scores, so I imagine ladies would go even more conservative than the men's when it comes to artistry.

 

19 minutes ago, meoima said:

lowest score got thrown out so the second lowest got counted. So yes Japanese federation should be aware. The American know of Shoma's cheated jumps and no steps before quads and the huge amount of 2 foot skating that Shoma is displaying. The American know and all the American and the Canadian and their fellow will do is easy, just score it correctly to the rules and it will all matter. 

....you know, before this season began, I did say that should we really go to politiks, Shoma is a much easier target than Yuzuru, and he'd get pulled down much faster and harder than Yuzu. Politiks don't necessarily need to be for this season, they can start it for the next Oly cycle, and with the BV of jumps possibly decreasing, they'll just zero in on non-TES stuff. And well, tech panel if it ever gets teeth....

[CupidsBow]

1 hour ago, katonice said:

Yes, now that I think about it, Nathan seemed to be focusing more on his presentation today.

Tbh, I liked his performance more than Shoma's, though yes I noticed too he was slow.

 

I guess he's still trying to adjust to working with the more complicated choreography and more jumps in the 2nd half.

So far, I like his program though.

 

Im a bit.... =_= at him possibly doing two quads in the second half because I'm not sure how well that will work out for him ?? I hope his choreo/ tr doesn't suffer for quads because I like the program overall (tho you know his pcs will rise if he lands the quads anyway since that's apparently how pcs works now) but .... it's hard to do two quads in the second half. He front loaded all his quads last season for reason...

 

@Xen god Deniss' PCS was a joke. 

[xeyra]

Look, whether it should happen or not, Shoma is a World silver medalist and he's now going to start with a base PCS for when clean. And since Lombardia already started out wild in the ladies, you were never going to be seeing less than the base he established for himself for a clean(ish) performance last season. That's the nature of the game nowadays. Yuzu also has a base 45 PCS for the SP, even when he fucks up on it. 

 

I'm not going to go onto whether it's deserved or not, that one does more one-foot skating than the other, has more or less transitions, etc. I do think the fact ISU muddled up the definition of the steps to solo jump in the SP with this wonderful description - 'clear, recognizable (creative, interesting, original for jump preceded by steps/movements of the Short Program) steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element' - is probably not going to help make judging more objective on this particular aspect of the SP. I mean, what is creative, original steps/movements anyway? I'd consider a SE one, but not sure I'd call what Shoma did immediately before the 4F particularly creative or interesting, but who the fucks knows, at least difficult steps were better defined and easier to mark (not that judges applied it consistently across the board) than what we have now, so judges do what they want as always. 

 

The USA judge, by the way, was rather conservative across the board, including with Jason. It just really contrasted with all the other judges in Shoma's protocol because everyone else scored him very high. I probably wouldn't have been as conservative as the USA judge but would probably not be doling out 9.50 in transitions either. In fact, the contrast between judges on his transitions score is rather .

 

I found the scoring in the ladies and the underscoring of Deniss comparatively more problematic and even Jason was generously scored (and Nathan too, in the US Classic, even though I quite like his new SP!). It's troubling, from a progressive PCS point of view, though, to start at such a high base for everyone at the beginning of the season so we'll see exactly how many ceilings we'll be hitting later on... 

 

Edit: Winter did have a lot of mileage in front of crowds during the summer at shows. It's not like Shoma is bringing a completely rough program he's doing outside of training for the first time. It has matured through the summer shows, although I've seen him do better versions of it outside of the jumps in some of the broadcast show versions.

[AsteroidB-612]

Honestly, shoma's PCS irked me. I like his performances fine, but If the judges keep on handing out candies in PCS and GOE like this to him, he will never have to improve from his intense stare and upper body movement propelled cheography or his imperfect jump qualities ( not to mention that what he is good at, the performance and music interpretation aspect are not even up to par this time yet. He was stiff and not completely in tune with the music until that last spin!..And they are already giving him 9+? Wth)

...it's no wonder Javi finally had it at the end of last season and spoke up, discouraged about how the judging is making him think that all these years of training for better skating skill and stroking and transitions were a waste of time because accrording to the judges they see no difference between the top six's PCS as long as they land their quads.

[xeyra]

20 minutes ago, CupidsBow said:

 

Im a bit.... =_= at him possibly doing two quads in the second half because I'm not sure how well that will work out for him ?? I hope his choreo/ tr doesn't suffer for quads because I like the program overall (tho you know his pcs will rise if he lands the quads anyway since that's apparently how pcs works now) but .... it's hard to do two quads in the second half. He front loaded all his quads last season for reason...

 

@Xen god Deniss' PCS was a joke. 

 

I always wonder, though. Is doing two quads in the second half of the SP really comparatively harder than doing them in the first half of a FS? A SP is basically half the length of a FS. Sure, you usually get your two quads out in a FS in the first minute or so and don't tire yourself out with spins or step sequences, but it's not like Nathan hasn't landed 4 quads in 2 minutes before so 2 should be relatively easy for him. Whether they'll have steps going into them we'll have to see but I always wondered why skaters didn't backload 2 instead of just one jump, considering. The ladies did start a trend first. 

[Floria]

hace 39 minutos , xeyra said:

 

I always wonder, though. Is doing two quads in the second half of the SP really comparatively harder than doing them in the first half of a FS? A SP is basically half the length of a FS. Sure, you usually get your two quads out in a FS in the first minute or so and don't tire yourself out with spins or step sequences, but it's not like Nathan hasn't landed 4 quads in 2 minutes before so 2 should be relatively easy for him. Whether they'll have steps going into them we'll have to see but I always wondered why skaters didn't backload 2 instead of just one jump, considering. The ladies did start a trend first. 

Nathan planned layout is to do 4Lz and 4F3T in the 2nd half. In an interview a few days ago he said he would jump less quads in the beginning of the season. So it explains yesterday's 3Lz.

ETA this layout's BV should be impressive 

[xeyra]

1 minute ago, Floria said:

Nathan planned layout is to do 4Lz and 4F3T in the 2nd half. In an interview a few days ago he said he would jump less quads in the beginning of the season. So it explains yesterday's 3Lz.

 

Yeah, apparently his planned content layout actually has the 4Lz as the last jump pass. He's out-crazying the anime...