General Skating Chat

[Xen]

Just now, Murieleirum said:

 

Maybe they should start by lowering the ticket prices for Challenger series like Lombardia Trophy who cost more than Grand Prix series events. 

 for the shade throwing. XD

But seriously, the main issue is the politiking. Misha Ge's PCS scores make me cry at times, as does Lil Bet's scores. And let's not forget about URs, Edge calls etc. Apply the rules consistently and we will see smaller fed skaters rise to the top, it's not like they don't have good skaters

[Eclair]

Also, not just small federations suffer from reputation scoring. They should do something about the intonation of the later the skate (group), the higher the PCS. 

 

Remember the worlds when Kozuka skated first, performed the best LP of his life, and then earned less PCS than Nam or Kovtun or Michal Brezina or Voronov at the same competition?

 

A lot of skater from smaller federation's PCS would be fairer, if they were not scored according to their starting number..

[sallycinnamon]

6 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Maybe they should start by lowering the ticket prices for Challenger series like Lombardia Trophy who cost more than Grand Prix series events. 

 

I don't know the real reasons behind the ticket prices at Lombardia, but I have seen barely any seats in that arena (probably 4-5 rows on one long side, which is maybe enough for family members? that's it), maybe the prices are because of that?

[Murieleirum]

2 minutes ago, Xen said:

 for the shade throwing. XD

But seriously, the main issue is the politiking. Misha Ge's PCS scores make me cry at times, as does Lil Bet's scores. And let's not forget about URs, Edge calls etc. Apply the rules consistently and we will see smaller fed skaters rise to the top, it's not like they don't have good skaters

 

My shade throwing is more, like... a clear black thick line of paint across everyone's faces LOL. 

 

Politiking... how to stop the politiking when it's the single major problem crossing ALL areas of international interest? Including United Nations and other Organisations which should represent completely the opposite of politiking?

 

 

[Winnie_20]

The man in charge of the ISU knows a lot about media, sponsorship, getting audiences to come etc. IIRC  he made a big deal of all that stuff back when he was candidate. 

I can totally see it now. Watch out, before we know it, we will, in fact, have three *separate* events: athletic, artistic, allround. You wanna experience  it live? You pay three times. And people will, because fans are willing to pay.

 

 

[xeyra]

For context: Based on Bianchetti's wife blog proposal of increasing PCS's weight to be worth 60% of the total score, which is at least better than separating Figure Skating singles into 'artistic' and 'athletic', how would this work? Is this basically raising the factoring of PCS people have been proposing? It's at least better than just lowering BV on quads.

[katonice]

7 minutes ago, Eclair said:

what? why is that??? 

 

Nebelhorn trophy all event tickets only costs 55 euros. that's it. 

Lombardia all-event apparently costs 220€...

 

[Murieleirum]

Just now, sallycinnamon said:

 

I don't know the real reasons behind the ticket prices at Lombardia, but I have seen barely any seats in that arena (probably 4-5 rows on one long side, which is maybe enough for family members? that's it), maybe the prices are because of that?

 

The prices are high because most Italians are shrewd. It sounds cruel but it's just the way it is. 

[Xen]

Just now, xeyra said:

For context: Based on Bianchetti's wife blog proposal of increasing PCS's weight to be worth 60% of the total score, which is at least better than separating Figure Skating singles into 'artistic' and 'athletic', how would this work? Is this basically raising the factoring of PCS people have been proposing? It's at least better than just lowering BV on quads.

60% seems a tad high. I think it's a bit odd to give percentiles to how scores should be weighed actually, and you can increase the PCS percentile by lowering the TES scores (which lowering BVs gets you, but then gets defeated by an increased GOE range). What I would find more interesting if they factor it.  For example, if you skate a clean program, should you get a small bump in the PCS scores on the merit of that? Should we get a small downgrade in PCS depend on the number of falls? There was also talk in another forum about fixing the backloading by using a progressive system, such as just 5% for the first 30 s of the back portion of a program, and progressively getting to 10% extra to distribute the backloading a bit more evenly. Can this be applied to PCS? For example, if you have a totally squeaky clean program, should we have a multiplier of 10%? That way in those extremely rare cases, a clean program can garner a score above 100- so the precentile of points from PCS does increase. The tricky part is how to deduct for falls and unclea programs- I would suggest maybe going down a full 10% if the skater has more than 3 falls, but only progressively moving to that. Anything in between, keep the PCS score as is without factoring. It would serve to point skaters towards consistency more than going too far one way or the other. 

 

But I don't think this above method is what the ISU is looking for....

[Eclair]

8 minutes ago, sallycinnamon said:

 

I don't know the real reasons behind the ticket prices at Lombardia, but I have seen barely any seats in that arena (probably 4-5 rows on one long side, which is maybe enough for family members? that's it), maybe the prices are because of that?

When in 2013 Yuna went to Nebelhorn trophy, there was only enough place for around 200 people (3-4 rows of banks), too. Still tickets for the long program cost 25 euros. Not saying that Lombardia and Nebelhorn are the same, just saying it's been done before that ticket prices aren't very pricey even if attendance is high and seats numbered. 

[Murieleirum]

8 minutes ago, xeyra said:

For context: Based on Bianchetti's wife blog proposal of increasing PCS's weight to be worth 60% of the total score, which is at least better than separating Figure Skating singles into 'artistic' and 'athletic', how would this work? Is this basically raising the factoring of PCS people have been proposing? It's at least better than just lowering BV on quads.

 

I am totally pro that. Or, better, I am pro PCS and technique being exactly 50/50. 

[Xen]

Just now, Murieleirum said:

 

I am totally pro that. Or, better, I am pro PCS and technique being exactly 50/50. 

Dear, that's 6.0 system...that was the closest we had....>_> and look at the controversies it caused and the blackboxes in judging...

[Sombreuil]

I don't understand the maths but I do think if the back loading becomes too much so that the programme is unbalanced it should somehow be penalised.  One of the things I enjoy most is the skaters who are musical and use the elements to accentuate the music - we all know who they are.  If backloading reaches a zayak style tipping point I would be in favour of that.

[Murieleirum]

3 minutes ago, Xen said:

The tricky part is how to deduct for falls and unclea programs- I would suggest maybe going down a full 10% if the skater has more than 3 falls

 

I think cleanliness should be rewarded, but falls are already penalized through deductions. Why putting another 10% off when the skater's already lost -3 points, deduction only, without counting the minus GOE? I think falls are already being penalized enough... 

[Eclair]

1 minute ago, Murieleirum said:

 

I am totally pro that. Or, better, I am pro PCS and technique being exactly 50/50. 

well I'm against higher PCS value as long as nothing is done about inconsistent, biased and unfair PCS judging. If judges are not: 

 

- bigger fed = more cushion points

- the later the starting number, the higher the PCS

- low score direct competitors of the judges own nation

- greater tech = greater PCS

 

if they stop doing that, then I'm all for Tech/Pcs =50/50

If they increase the PCS value before addressing the PCS judging problems, this will only lead to disadvantages such as: 

 

- uninspiring programs of bigger federation get more PCS

- higher tech = more PCS

- small fed skaters can skate lights out, but still get even more lowballed