General Skating Chat

[DaPurpleDino]

I just want to know how they plan on progressing the sport forward by limiting growth both technically and artistically 

seriously if they enforced their own rules then ISU wouldnt have to try and combat bad judging by adding in more rules or proposing unnecessary changes

[xeyra]

Fun fact: the proposed new Base Values for jumps will be lower than what they were before 2010. A 4T was worth 9.8 in 2008, and went to 10.3 in 2010, and now they'll lower it to 9.5. Same with all the other quads and triples (except the triple flip, that one escaped unharmed); all base values will be lower than they were in Vancouver, back when the results there and related controversy made them raise the BV, especially on quads. Now their proposed BVs will be lower than they were even before then. 

[Sombreuil]

18 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

The  quads aren't killing this sport's popularity in the USA by the way.. what's killing it is "exclusivity." Ice network would be the best example (so coincidental then that the news of a radical change by ISU is first brought up in an article by Ice Network instead of ISU itself). You need to subscribe and pay to get content otherwise you'd have to wait for NBC to broadcast anything (usually a week later and not even the whole competition). Whereas you go to Japan and it's being promoted by companies/advertisers, if there's any FS news then they talk about it during the sports segments of news broadcasts, etc... I'd take a wild stab that FS in the USA was much more widespread publicly before the existence of Icenetwork. So until FS is more accessible to everyone then you're never going to get FS back to it's height of popularity in the US (unless they've got another 'scandal' or 'golden girl' that they can promote).

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but in the UK apart from Worlds and Olympics you need to pay for Eurosport to see the GP series euros and 4CC, and wait for uploads to YouTube for anything else. 

[Eclair]

7 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but in the UK apart from Worlds and Olympics you need to pay for Eurosport to see the GP series euros and 4CC, and wait for uploads to YouTube for anything else. 

but Eurosport is a general sports channel. You can watch soccer and tennis and snooker (me not), too. While ice network ONLY streams figure skating. A casual sports fan might pay for Eurosport, but never ever would a casual fan get the idea to pay for a channel that only features figure skating. 

Also, eurosport streams are a lot more stable than ice networks. 

 

People in Europe paying for Eurosport is like people in the US paying for NBC cable. 

[Sombreuil]

When the big audience for the sport ( and a high proportion of its stars) is in Eastern Europe and the Far East it seems crazy that NA and Western Europe should have such a disproportionate influence on it. I find the bleating of certain nationalities about the decline of their skaters very irritating, especially when coupled with criticism of the methods of others.  It reminds me a bit of gymnastics- the US owns WAG, and can't understand why it doesn't own MAG as well, when any male kid with the fast twitch reflexes needed to be successful is going to head for other more lucrative sports, which also happen to have a more macho profile.  Here in the UK sports like gymnastics,swimming and cycling that have had money thrown at them through things like the lottery have become successful and therefore popular.  I wonder sometimes what uk skating would look like if the lottery had existed in the 70s.

[Murieleirum]

2 hours ago, kiches said:

I'll probably write a longer post about it on my blog but ultimately I think I'm going to send my feedback through the form on the ISU website.

 

Shouldn't we all? I can't believe there won't be ISU officials who will complain about this...

 

52 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

The  quads aren't killing this sport's popularity in the USA by the way.. what's killing it is "exclusivity." Ice network would be the best example (so coincidental then that the news of a radical change by ISU is first brought up in an article by Ice Network instead of ISU itself). You need to subscribe and pay to get content otherwise you'd have to wait for NBC to broadcast anything (usually a week later and not even the whole competition). Whereas you go to Japan and it's being promoted by companies/advertisers, if there's any FS news then they talk about it during the sports segments of news broadcasts, etc... I'd take a wild stab that FS in the USA was much more widespread publicly before the existence of Icenetwork. So until FS is more accessible to everyone then you're never going to get FS back to it's height of popularity in the US (unless they've got another 'scandal' or 'golden girl' that they can promote).

 

With the risk of sounding like an old man shaking his fist in the air, "This is what extreme capitalism does to things". Privates have all the liberty to make everything theirs and put it for sale instead of sharing it out of love for said thing. 'Murica. 

[kaeryth]

30 minutes ago, xeyra said:

Fun fact: the proposed new Base Values for jumps will be lower than what they were before 2010. A 4T was worth 9.8 in 2008, and went to 10.3 in 2010, and now they'll lower it to 9.5. Same with all the other quads and triples (except the flip, that one escaped unharmed); all base values will be lower than they were in Vancouver, back when the results there and related controversy made them raise the BV, especially on quads. Now their proposed BVs will be lower than they were even before then. 

 

Might as well go back to the 6.0 since they seem to be so fond of it. When they increased the BV of quads after Vancouver, they actually consulted the athletes... I've got a funny feeling they didn't for this new proposed BV. If that's the case, then I can sort of understand why the flip is the one most untouched - there are currently only 2 athletes that compete with a 4F in their programs. But I cannot for the life of me fathom what they did with the 4A. This shows that whoever is proposing the BV changes doesn't know the difficulties of jumps. There's a reason why no one has been able to jump a ratified 4A. To give it just a 3 point difference from the 4T... might as well do a very good 4T than can get +3 GOE.

[Xen]

12 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

When the big audience for the sport ( and a high proportion of its stars) is in Eastern Europe and the Far East it seems crazy that NA and Western Europe should have such a disproportionate influence on it. I find the bleating of certain nationalities about the decline of their skaters very irritating, especially when coupled with criticism of the methods of others.  It reminds me a bit of gymnastics- the US owns WAG, and can't understand why it doesn't own MAG as well, when any male kid with the fast twitch reflexes needed to be successful is going to head for other more lucrative sports, which also happen to have a more macho profile.  Here in the UK sports like gymnastics,swimming and cycling that have had money thrown at them through things like the lottery have become successful and therefore popular.  I wonder sometimes what uk skating would look like if the lottery had existed in the 70s.

I am surprised that Japan has not said anything....which country has kept skating afloat these past couple of years?  The changes aren't going to really benefit the US- the resources issue will still persist, if not get exacerbated further, by the change to a 2 programs system with multiple medals. 

[xeyra]

9 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

Might as well go back to the 6.0 since they seem to be so fond of it. When they increased the BV of quads after Vancouver, they actually consulted the athletes... I've got a funny feeling they didn't for this new proposed BV. If that's the case, then I can sort of understand why the flip is the one most untouched - there are currently only 2 athletes that compete with a 4F in their programs. But I cannot for the life of me fathom what they did with the 4A. This shows that whoever is proposing the BV changes doesn't know the difficulties of jumps. There's a reason why no one has been able to jump a ratified 4A. To give it just a 3 point difference from the 4T... might as well do a very good 4T than can get +3 GOE.

 

I meant the 3F, sorry. The 4F did get a decrease below Vancouver values too. 

 

And I agree, especially the devaluation of the 4A. I guess they don't really want people to jump it after all. 

[kaeryth]

2 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

I meant the 3F, sorry. The 4F did get a decrease below Vancouver values too. 

 

Aaaah... still the decrease in value for jumps are disproportionate and lower... nothing makes sense. Thanks ISU.

[xeyra]

Here are the differences in BV between 2008 and 2010:

http://deep-edge.net/sov_2010.html

 

And here is ISU's proposed BV for next season:

 

[SparkleSalad]

Why are they lowering the BV of a jump that no one has even landed yet? 

[SSS]

22 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

Might as well go back to the 6.0 since they seem to be so fond of it. When they increased the BV of quads after Vancouver, they actually consulted the athletes... I've got a funny feeling they didn't for this new proposed BV. If that's the case, then I can sort of understand why the flip is the one most untouched - there are currently only 2 athletes that compete with a 4F in their programs. But I cannot for the life of me fathom what they did with the 4A. This shows that whoever is proposing the BV changes doesn't know the difficulties of jumps. There's a reason why no one has been able to jump a ratified 4A. To give it just a 3 point difference from the 4T... might as well do a very good 4T than can get +3 GOE.

Remind you it will be +5

[SSS]

14 minutes ago, xeyra said:

 

I meant the 3F, sorry. The 4F did get a decrease below Vancouver values too. 

 

And I agree, especially the devaluation of the 4A. I guess they don't really want people to jump it after all. 

I don't get why 4lo’s BV is reduced more than 4f

[Eclair]

1 minute ago, SSS said:

I don't get why 4lo’s BV is reduced more than 4f

The way they are devaluating the lutz while keeping (3Flip) or only slightly decrease the value of the Flip (4Flip) is something! 

Why don't they just blatantly say it out loud: ISU doesn't want Boyang to medal.