In figure skating, a radical proposal to reshape the sport (NBC Sport article)

[SparkleSalad]

Change PCS factoring and they’ll just give even higher scores to those who are already getting maximum PCS for minimal effort due to their flag. 

[Neenah]

I am actually fine with changing the format of the competition and the requirements of the programs. I think they should do it every four years to keep things fresh and to stop people from finding loopholes and ways to cheat the system. What I disagree with is the claim that this is a way to fix the issue the sport suffers from currently which is totally the fault of the ISU and judges not applying their own rules.

I am a big fan of the IJS (except for the PC cap, this one is stupid and unfair) and have always defended it and do think it is a very good system for a sport like FS. However, for it to work correctly it requires integrity , competency and cooperation from all people involves whether they were judges, officials or skaters and their teams. The changes they are proposing are just dressing the problem with a different outfit but it still the same ugly inside. Nothing will make it look good unless the fundamental problems are addressed. 

 

This actually reminds me of the videos about PC that were posted by the ISU before when they discussed PC judging and common mistakes. It was clear then that they knew exactly what was wrong and they even talked about it and warned the judges (gently) about many of the things we frequently complain about. But when it comes to enforcing the rules in the real competitions they pretend that everything is fine and the judges are doing things correctly but the skaters are the ones who are doing too many quads or whatever so the scoring is wacky. I think that the ISU truly lost control of the sport and it is totally in the hands of the stronger feds and all they are doing now is pretending to do something to save face and keep their jobs.

[Henni147]

9 hours ago, shanshani said:

rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic

 

Also allow some good artists from second class with right passport to enter the deck and encourage others to jump in cold water. Literally speaking.

[Paskud]

Who needs Ambesi, when we have Paloma.

 

google translate: The lords of the ISU no longer know what to invent. They would have to look for a method for their judges to punctuate everyone with the same standards, without exceptions, which seems to always find the failures or the successes to them.

[Fay]

Someone invented a nice simile - what ISU suggests is looks like someone trying to get rid of body odor by just changing their clothing without ever trying to wash their body. 

[rubyblue]

1 hour ago, Paskud said:

Who needs Ambesi, when we have Paloma.

 

google translate: The lords of the ISU no longer know what to invent. They would have to look for a method for their judges to punctuate everyone with the same standards, without exceptions, which seems to always find the failures or the successes to them.

I love her. Wish we have more and more voices like that. 

[monchan]

I always wonder if Yuzu wont be around anymore, will there be so quickly many changes like this?

 

ISU, a notoriously conservative organization, only decided on a new scoring system (IJS) to replace 6.0 becuz of a big ass scandal in 2002, NOT becuz they actively seeked for a change. And it took 2-3 years for the new system to be implemented. From last ss, after 14 years, a major change finally took place (+-5GOE), which no one asked for, but i could get they want some changes themselves now. HOWEVER, they are going to do a major change, again, which again, no one asks for, only 2 years after the latest change. That's so unlikely them, and makes the newly +-5GOE system just a complete joke, nothing but a proof of ISU's transition failure.

 

Seems like they want to erase any records from this era, and last era, and these changes are just excuse to make the sport more manipulatable. I appreciate IJS, a good invention, but ISU mindset seems to be the same as 6.0 era, nothing has really changed.

[Henni147]

3 hours ago, monchan said:

I always wonder if Yuzu wont be around anymore, will there be so quickly many changes like this?

 

ISU, a notoriously conservative organization, only decided on a new scoring system (IJS) to replace 6.0 becuz of a big ass scandal in 2002, NOT becuz they actively seeked for a change. And it took 2-3 years for the new system to be implemented. From last ss, after 14 years, a major change finally took place (+-5GOE), which no one asked for, but i could get they want some changes themselves now. HOWEVER, they are going to do a major change, again, which again, no one asks for, only after 2 years from the latest change. That's so unlikely them, and makes the newly +-5GOE system just a complete joke, nothing but a proof of ISU's transition failure.

 

Seems like they want to erase any records from this era, and last era, and these changes are just excuse to make the sport more manipulatable. I appreciate IJS, a good invention, but ISU mindset seems to be the same as 6.0 era, nothing has really changed.

 

It's funny, right? Yuzuru Hanyu is too good. We have to stop him. Alina Zagitova is backloading too much. We have to stop her. Papadakis and Cizeron receive too many 10s. We have to stop them. ISU is acting like a desperate kindergarden teacher, who completely lost control over her group of super talents.

[rubyblue]

They completely lost control of their own system. They don't know how to deal with that. Example: the most recent attempt was to tell judges not to give too many 10s. But, imo, throwing 10s is not a big issue, throwing 9s for mediocre performances/skills is much bigger issue. Same with GOE. In consequence, Yuzuru got only four 10s for his perfect SP which actually deserved nothing less than whole bunch of 10s. This system puts the best skaters in the cage of its incapacity.

[shanshani]

I think the ISU realizes there are problems with the judging (for example they put out that video about common errors in PCS judging during the last off season, and they keep trying to change the judging system). But they aren't doing anything to actually hold judges accountable, so nothing changes. 

 

Back when the whole backloading controversy was happening, the main argument against backloading was that it produced an unbalanced program that was dull to watch. Well, if so, the judges should have deducted marks from CO, instead of having the ISU step in with another unnecessary rule adjustment. But that would require judges to actually put some thought into PCS, which they are of course loathed to do.

[rubyblue]

1 hour ago, shanshani said:

I think the ISU realizes there are problems with the judging (for example they put out that video about common errors in PCS judging during the last off season, and they keep trying to change the judging system). But they aren't doing anything to actually hold judges accountable, so nothing changes. 

 

Back when the whole backloading controversy was happening, the main argument against backloading was that it produced an unbalanced program that was dull to watch. Well, if so, the judges should have deducted marks from CO, instead of having the ISU step in with another unnecessary rule adjustment. But that would require judges to actually put some thought into PCS, which they are of course loathed to do.

Exactly. The problem isn't how the rules are set, but how they are applied and controlled. The competences and intentions of those who judge are the biggest issue. 

Also, they spend so much time for trying to figure out how to put emphasis on quality, but what they really struggle with is the definition of quality that would be acknowledged commonly within judges.

[shanshani]

1 hour ago, rubyblue said:

Exactly. The problem isn't how the rules are set, but how they are applied and controlled. The competences and intentions of those who judge are the biggest issue. 

Also, they spend so much time for trying to figure out how to put emphasis on quality, but what they really struggle with is the definition of quality that would be acknowledged commonly within judges.

yup. the actual scoring system itself emphasizes quality a lot, possibly too much--hence why Jason is competitive with people who jump way more quads than him. but the problem is that judges won't acknowledge quality in skaters without political backing/reputation, and are just completely inconsistent in their standards

[robin]

The core problem here is that their concern isn’t to make judging more fair but the sport more popular (in NA, by giving the American skaters a helping hand). 

[Sombreuil]

I keep saying it - the system isn’t the problem it’s the bias inherent in the method of appointing judges which then causes bias in the way they judge.  The tinkering they’ve done with the system just makes the ‘definitions’ of the various components fuzzier and easier for the judges to manipulate in whatever direction they want.   Then you get the politicking - Rusfed flexing its muscles over ‘marking their skaters down’ and erasure of certain athletes/playing down of others ( too old for the tech, too inexperienced to be sufficiently ‘ artistic’, too inconsistent ) by USfed to sway the casual viewer into thinking there are valid reasons for the judging.  I suppose we should be grateful that Kostornaia  isn’t american- she’d be the perfect princess they’ve been waiting for.

[shanshani]

49 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I keep saying it - the system isn’t the problem it’s the bias inherent in the method of appointing judges which then causes bias in the way they judge.  The tinkering they’ve done with the system just makes the ‘definitions’ of the various components fuzzier and easier for the judges to manipulate in whatever direction they want.   Then you get the politicking - Rusfed flexing its muscles over ‘marking their skaters down’ and erasure of certain athletes/playing down of others ( too old for the tech, too inexperienced to be sufficiently ‘ artistic’, too inconsistent ) by USfed to sway the casual viewer into thinking there are valid reasons for the judging.  I suppose we should be grateful that Kostornaia  isn’t american- she’d be the perfect princess they’ve been waiting for.

Well, Alyona benefits plenty from her present flag too. Unlike many she at least has a legitimate claim to her PCS though. But if she were from Korea or something she'd be in the same position as Rika