mcq said:

You meant to say true lutzer would likely bent their takeoff leg during takeoff (and it stays like that) while flutzer tend to straighten it up by takeoff thus the switch to the inside?

Yes. True Lutzers bends their knee to keeps the outside edge and it creates that kind of bending shape. While Fluzters always straighten their legs at take off.

Miki (true Lutz) Vs Daisuke (Flutz): 

 

meoima said:

mcq said:

You meant to say true lutzer would likely bent their takeoff leg during takeoff (and it stays like that) while flutzer tend to straighten it up by takeoff thus the switch to the inside?

Yes. True Lutzers bends their knee to keeps the outside edge and it creates this shape bending shape. While Fluzters always straighten their legs at take off.

Miki (true Lutz) Vs Daisuke (Flutz): http://imgur.com/IAWph7Q

 

It prob work the other way around for lipper too then  

mcq said:

meoima said:

mcq said:

You meant to say true lutzer would likely bent their takeoff leg during takeoff (and it stays like that) while flutzer tend to straighten it up by takeoff thus the switch to the inside?

Yes. True Lutzers bends their knee to keeps the outside edge and it creates this shape bending shape. While Fluzters always straighten their legs at take off.

Miki (true Lutz) Vs Daisuke (Flutz): http://imgur.com/IAWph7Q

 

It prob work the other way around for lipper too then  

@meoima, could you do Yuzu's Lip and true-ish!Flip comparison? You mentioned before he is now even having the leg position correctly.

This looks adorable and made me laugh

love her Yuzuru cartoons, does anyone have a translation - I think Yuzuru "older" and "younger" are discussing the 4A? 

You meant to say true lutzer would likely bent their takeoff leg during takeoff (and it stays like that) while flutzer tend to straighten it up by takeoff thus the switch to the inside?

Yes. True Lutzers bends their knee to keeps the outside edge and it creates this shape bending shape. While Fluzters always straighten their legs at take off.

Miki (true Lutz) Vs Daisuke (Flutz): http://imgur.com/IAWph7Q

It prob work the other way around for lipper too then :grin:

Yes, this is why Gracie is a Lipper: http://imgur.com/pJvVv6s

@meoima, could you do Yuzu's Lip and true-ish!Flip comparison? You mentioned before he is now even having the leg position correctly.

I am kinda lazy now, it's time for my skincare routine lol. But this is Yuzuru when his Flip was still meh, this was at JWC 2010, he got flat ! call for it): http://imgur.com/6CdF0gd

You see his outside edge? And even if you do not look at his edge, you see his left leg was not straightened, this was when he's 15.

And look at the close-up here in 2017: http://imgur.com/7FfH7cK

Gif: https://media.giphy.com/media/LNHRbLTxb6sF2/giphy.gif

You see at the take-off, his left leg was straightened a bit right at the take-off. That's the improvement. That straight leg even just for a half second means it's a Flip. You can feel the motion pulling to the right (and inside). Or you can say his left leg is slightly straightened. So it is counted as an acceptable Flip.

 

One more thing, Yuzuru has NO pre-rotation in the Flip and Lutz, that's why it's possible for him to correct the edge in the Flip. Blade of Passion often complains that Yuzuru makes his Lutz too hard because he has ZERO pre-rotation. But actually, it's this Zero pre-rotation helps him to get ok Flip now. He pulls himself up too quick before the Flip slight inside edge can rock to the outside.

@meoima your explanation makes understanding this so much easier, thank you!  

 

Dara said:

xeyra said:

I don't remember this very well: is there any of his performances with the walley I can check?

It was in

but

by CoC.

 

i hope he brings back that transition somehow because  

I've been just wwatching this convo and learning a lot - thanks y'all  

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation meoima!

meoima said:

xeyra said:

@meoima, could you do Yuzu's Lip and true-ish!Flip comparison? You mentioned before he is now even having the leg position correctly.

I am kinda lazy now, it's time for my skincare routine lol. But this is Yuzuru when his Flip was still meh, this was at JWC 2010, he got flat ! call for it): http://imgur.com/6CdF0gd

You see his outside edge? And even if you do not look at his edge, you see his left leg was not straightened, this was when he's 15.

And look at the close-up here in 2017: http://imgur.com/7FfH7cK

Gif: https://media.giphy.com/media/LNHRbLTxb6sF2/giphy.gif

You see at the take-off, his left leg was straightened a bit right at the take-off. That's the improvement. That straight leg even just for a half second means it's a Flip. Yuzuru does not have to be scared of his Flip edge now.

 

One more thing, Yuzuru has NO pre-rotation in the Flip and Lutz, that's why it's possible for him to correct the edge in the Flip. Blade of Passion often complains that Yuzuru makes his Lutz too hard because he has ZERO pre-rotation. But actually, it's this Zero pre-rotation helps him to get ok Flip now. He pulls himself up too quick before the Flip slight inside edge can rock to the outside.

Wowww. Thanks for explaining.

 

meoima said:

this is Yuzuru when his Flip was still meh, this was at JWC 2010, he got flat ! call for it): http://imgur.com/6CdF0gd

You see his outside edge? And even if you do not look at his edge, you see his left leg was not straightened, this was when he's 15.

And look at the close-up here in 2017: http://imgur.com/7FfH7cK

Gif: https://media.giphy.com/media/LNHRbLTxb6sF2/giphy.gif

You see at the take-off, his left leg was straightened a bit right at the take-off. That's the improvement. That straight leg even just for a half second means it's a Flip. Yuzuru does not have to be scared of his Flip edge now.

 

One more thing, Yuzuru has NO pre-rotation in the Flip and Lutz, that's why it's possible for him to correct the edge in the Flip. Blade of Passion often complains that Yuzuru makes his Lutz too hard because he has ZERO pre-rotation. But actually, it's this Zero pre-rotation helps him to get ok Flip now. He pulls himself up too quick before the Flip slight inside edge can rock to the outside..

 

 

Here's to becoming more knowledgeable about FS!  

Thanks, meoima!

@meoima, could you do Yuzu's Lip and true-ish!Flip comparison? You mentioned before he is now even having the leg position correctly.

I am kinda lazy now, it's time for my skincare routine lol. But this is Yuzuru when his Flip was still meh, this was at JWC 2010, he got flat ! call for it): http://imgur.com/6CdF0gd

You see his outside edge? And even if you do not look at his edge, you see his left leg was not straightened, this was when he's 15.

And look at the close-up here in 2017: http://imgur.com/7FfH7cK

Gif: https://media.giphy.com/media/LNHRbLTxb6sF2/giphy.gif

You see at the take-off, his left leg was straightened a bit right at the take-off. That's the improvement. That straight leg even just for a half second means it's a Flip. Yuzuru does not have to be scared of his Flip edge now.

 

One more thing, Yuzuru has NO pre-rotation in the Flip and Lutz, that's why it's possible for him to correct the edge in the Flip. Blade of Passion often complains that Yuzuru makes his Lutz too hard because he has ZERO pre-rotation. But actually, it's this Zero pre-rotation helps him to get ok Flip now. He pulls himself up too quick before the Flip slight inside edge can rock to the outside.

 

WOW. That is zero prerotation indeed. I know people say "everyone prerotates" but that is literally zero.

ah, the walley... didn't realize Yuzu had tried that. When I see him doing certain moves, like the single axel, the last spin in H/L, the walley into a jump... you can tell he is working with Brian, who used all of those exact same moves, kind of signature moves, lol, when he was skating.

Even his 4Lz didn't have a prerotation and that deep outside edge was to die for  

meoima said:

xeyra said:

 

This a great explanation. Thank you.

One more, Shoma's fluzt that rarely gets called e: http://imgur.com/7PgRlz5

 

You and mcq so much on this subject you know. Tell me why the judges of the bad edges don't see (sometimes can they joke that they don't see?), and is officially about it quietly? It's so very frustrating