meoima said:

xeyra said:

@meoima, could you do Yuzu's Lip and true-ish!Flip comparison? You mentioned before he is now even having the leg position correctly.

I am kinda lazy now, it's time for my skincare routine lol. But this is Yuzuru when his Flip was still meh, this was at JWC 2010, he got flat ! call for it): http://imgur.com/6CdF0gd

You see his outside edge? And even if you do not look at his edge, you see his left leg was not straightened, this was when he's 15.

And look at the close-up here in 2017: http://imgur.com/7FfH7cK

Gif: https://media.giphy.com/media/LNHRbLTxb6sF2/giphy.gif

You see at the take-off, his left leg was straightened a bit right at the take-off. That's the improvement. That straight leg even just for a half second means it's a Flip. Yuzuru does not have to be scared of his Flip edge now.

 

One more thing, Yuzuru has NO pre-rotation in the Flip and Lutz, that's why it's possible for him to correct the edge in the Flip. Blade of Passion often complains that Yuzuru makes his Lutz too hard because he has ZERO pre-rotation. But actually, it's this Zero pre-rotation helps him to get ok Flip now. He pulls himself up too quick before the Flip slight inside edge can rock to the outside.

Right? His zero prerotation flip is kind of hilarious, look at how he uses his picking foot (right foot) and how the blade is actually pointing outwards. It's the opposite of prerotation (picking inwards and then spinning on the ground towards the direction of rotation, meaning less air rotation), he actually makes the Flip harder in order to get the correct edge. The quickness of his entry (right out of choreography and really quick during his 3 turns) definitely helps to keep him from rocking to the outside.

 

Here's an example of one of Yuzuru's worst "Lip"s (he got called e) at 4CC 2011, look at how obviously his left leg bends and goes onto the outside edge. Go into settings and watch at 0.25x speed:

I'm glad he got called on it for years and improved that edge.

unicorn said:

meoima said:

I am kinda lazy now, it's time for my skincare routine lol. But this is Yuzuru when his Flip was still meh, this was at JWC 2010, he got flat ! call for it): http://imgur.com/6CdF0gd

You see his outside edge? And even if you do not look at his edge, you see his left leg was not straightened, this was when he's 15.

And look at the close-up here in 2017: http://imgur.com/7FfH7cK

Gif: https://media.giphy.com/media/LNHRbLTxb6sF2/giphy.gif

You see at the take-off, his left leg was straightened a bit right at the take-off. That's the improvement. That straight leg even just for a half second means it's a Flip. Yuzuru does not have to be scared of his Flip edge now.

 

One more thing, Yuzuru has NO pre-rotation in the Flip and Lutz, that's why it's possible for him to correct the edge in the Flip. Blade of Passion often complains that Yuzuru makes his Lutz too hard because he has ZERO pre-rotation. But actually, it's this Zero pre-rotation helps him to get ok Flip now. He pulls himself up too quick before the Flip slight inside edge can rock to the outside.

Right? His zero prerotation flip is kind of hilarious, look at how he uses his picking foot (right foot) and how the blade is actually pointing outwards. It's the opposite of prerotation (picking inwards and then spinning on the ground towards the direction of rotation, meaning less air rotation), he actually makes the Flip harder in order to get the correct edge. The quickness of his entry (right out of choreography and really quick during his 3 turns) definitely helps to keep him from rocking to the outside.

 

Here's an example of one of Yuzuru's worst "Lip"s (he got called e) at 4CC 2011, look at how obviously his left leg bends and goes onto the outside edge. Go into settings and watch at 0.25x speed:

 

I'm glad he got called on it for years and improved that edge.

Yes, Yuzuru's Flip and Lutz take off has crazy toe pick. I mean how can he does ZERO pre-rotation at all.

Even someone has clean take-off in the Flip like Nathan Chen also has a very slight pre-rotation (like 60 degrees)

(sorry to bring this video up again, I am just too tired to make another gif for Nathan). 

 

And yes, I think good edge call is one of the reasons Yuzuru tried to fix the Flip (the other reason, I assume, is that he messed the Flip at Sochi LP, so he wanted to improve it). He has OCD, I bet he does not like his scoresheet has any chance of getting even just !. 

meoima said:

xeyra said:

@meoima, could you do Yuzu's Lip and true-ish!Flip comparison? You mentioned before he is now even having the leg position correctly.

I am kinda lazy now, it's time for my skincare routine lol. But this is Yuzuru when his Flip was still meh, this was at JWC 2010, he got flat ! call for it): http://imgur.com/6CdF0gd

You see his outside edge? And even if you do not look at his edge, you see his left leg was not straightened, this was when he's 15.

And look at the close-up here in 2017: http://imgur.com/7FfH7cK

Gif: https://media.giphy.com/media/LNHRbLTxb6sF2/giphy.gif

You see at the take-off, his left leg was straightened a bit right at the take-off. That's the improvement. That straight leg even just for a half second means it's a Flip. Yuzuru does not have to be scared of his Flip edge now.

 

One more thing, Yuzuru has NO pre-rotation in the Flip and Lutz, that's why it's possible for him to correct the edge in the Flip. Blade of Passion often complains that Yuzuru makes his Lutz too hard because he has ZERO pre-rotation. But actually, it's this Zero pre-rotation helps him to get ok Flip now. He pulls himself up too quick before the Flip slight inside edge can rock to the outside.

 

wow this is such an insightful observation! indeed I had noticed how he leaves the ice really quick on his flip to avoid lipping, but didn't make the connection that it's due to good basic technique that allows him to correct his edge

 

and @unicorn

haha you're right it IS the exact opposite of prerotation  only our alien from planet hanyu could attempt such a thing 

Tatjana Flade had just tweeted link to her new article at GS: Hanyu heads optimistically into Olympic season

Tatjana Flade had just tweeted link to her new article at GS: Hanyu heads optimistically into Olympic season

 

lol at the way they put a link to Yuzuru Hanyu Fan Fest at the end of the article!

Fay said:

Dara said:

Tatjana Flade had just tweeted link to her new article at GS: Hanyu heads optimistically into Olympic season

 

lol at the way they put a link to Yuzuru Hanyu Fan Fest at the end of the article!

LMAO I didn't pay any attention to "Related Info" 

Fay said:

Dara said:

Tatjana Flade had just tweeted link to her new article at GS: Hanyu heads optimistically into Olympic season

 

lol at the way they put a link to Yuzuru Hanyu Fan Fest at the end of the article!

 

Thanks everyone for great tips and explanations about FS techniques. Also thanks for good questions! Lots of useful information are here!

 

Differentiate some jumps it's really hard thing to do. Especially during program itself, I mean before slow motion. Left-right leg things, and sometimes more awkward for me - "was there a toe assist" thing.

 

But I remember those days when, thanks to Yuzuru, I had to write down and was learning "There two types jumps in FS - toe jumps and edge jumps. Axel, Salcow and Loop are edge jumps...or is Loop a toe jump?? Ok I should take a look again" etc, as if it was main goal in my life :laugh: But when you are into it, after a while just watching being not enough, and you really want to know what's going on there. Want to know more and more.

 

Btw take off of good lutz looks really weird. At the beginning my eyes was getting hurt every time when Yuna went for it. But then I realized that she has very beautiful lutz with deep outside edge.

Mitya said:

Btw take off of good lutz looks really weird. At the beginning my eyes was getting hurt every time when Yuna went for it. But then I realized that she has very beautiful lutz with deep outside edge.

This Lutz video from Polina is nice

Before she... grew up too much  

And you see, even Polina has like 60-90 degrees pre-rotation. It is accepted universally for 3Flip and 3Lutz. Yuna and Liza also did the same and NO MORE than that amount. Good Luzt and Flip jumpers do not PR their jumps up to 180-270 degrees like *someone* (some skaters I am tired of repeating their names)

 

And we have Yuzuru who points his toe pick OUTWARD... to have ZERO pre-rotation, to make it harder. This boy is RIDICULOUS!

Ok, dumb question but where is the Purple Pants Church talk? It is the same as the invisible convos back on GS, isn't it? Those were hilarious & I miss them, but I can't find anything about it on Planet, just mentions of the Church? Or have I gone blind? 

surimi said:

Ok, dumb question but where is the Purple Pants Church talk? It is the same as the invisible convos back on GS, isn't it? Those were hilarious & I miss them, but I can't find anything about it on Planet, just mentions of the Church? Or have I gone blind? 

 

I believe one needs 25 posts to access that part, it's labeled adult, just to be on the safe side.

Btw take off of good lutz looks really weird. At the beginning my eyes was getting hurt every time when Yuna went for it. But then I realized that she has very beautiful lutz with deep outside edge.

This Lutz video from Polina is nice

Before she... grew up too much :cry:

And you see, even Polina has like 60-90 degrees pre-rotation. It is accepted universally for 3Flip and 3Lutz. Yuna and Liza also did the same and NO MORE than that amount. Good Luzt and Flip jumpers do not PR their jumps up to 180-270 degrees like *someone* (some skaters I am tired of repeating their names)

 

And we have Yuzuru who points his toe pick OUTWARD... to have ZERO pre-rotation, to make it harder. :rant: This boy is RIDICULOUS!

Do you know any other videos with her about other jumps? I would love to see more.

turquoiseblue said:

Do you know any other videos with her about other jumps? I would love to see more.

No, they only have that Lutz. Polina has same issue with other strong Lutzers, is that her Flip is weaker. Still good quality but not perfect Flip. Kind of sad to see what is happening to Polina. She is such a talent. But her body... I don't know if she can ever make it to Worlds or Olympic if her body is like that.  

This is probably veering into off Hanyu topic, but are there any skaters with equally strong Lutz and Flip? As in, they have absolutely no issues with edge. Is it a very rare thing not to have issues with either jump? I think Nathan Chen is an example of someone with both a good Lutz and a good Flip, right?

This is probably veering into off Hanyu topic, but are there any skaters with equally strong Lutz and Flip? As in, they have absolutely no issues with edge? Is it a very rare thing not to have issues with either jump? I think Nathan Chen is an example of someone with both a good Lutz and a good Flip, right?

 

Rika Kihara and Alina off the top of my head. Oh and Carol Kostner . Lol I'm blanking on the men.