General Yuzuru Chat

[Anki]

I think Yuzu would be more popular in Korea if not for Yuna appearing first. Based on how those Korean flower girls hawked him only at the Olympics gala, you can tell he is sooo their type. But many Koreans don't like the fact he got two golds when Yuna didn't, and that he has garnered a fan following greater than she had (and its still growing). Even Orser in his interview say he has become a far bigger phenom and he has been through it all with both skaters.    

 

If Boyang had won more golds or (*in whisper* is more attractive), I am not sure China would necessarily be as warm to Yuzu as they are now.  He would still be very popular, but he probably would have a bigger amount of detractors too. In some way, whether he has competitors (even in other disciplines) in a country somewhat affects his position there too. 

 

But if we going to talk about difference in Western and Asian aesthetics it's got to be the costumes... how many times has 'western' viewers complained about his costumes, yet on most Asian platforms he is considered to have by far the best costumes (a lot can't understand why someone would want to go to the Olympics wearing a sweater that looked randomly bought at Uniqulo...). And even the music too,  Semei seem to be the most highly regarded programs of his amongst western viewers, but they tend to find H&L music boring, yet I find a lot of Asians fans actually prefer H&L more, particularly because of the music.  

[Indiiea]

Here is a chart of proportions from a pretty wellknown art book:

Does it apply? 

 

The golden ratio is a bit different, but you can find examples of faces adhering to it if you google...

[Salior]

1 hour ago, Anki said:

I think Yuzu would be more popular in Korea if not for Yuna appearing first. Based on how those Korean flower girls hawked him only at the Olympics gala, you can tell he is sooo their type. But many Koreans don't like the fact he got two golds when Yuna didn't, and that he has garnered a fan following greater than she had (and its still growing). Even Orser in his interview say he has become a far bigger phenom and he has been through it all with both skaters.    

 

If Boyang had won more golds or (*in whisper* is more attractive), I am not sure China would necessarily be as warm to Yuzu as they are now.  He would still be very popular, but he probably would have a bigger amount of detractors too. In some way, whether he has competitors (even in other disciplines) in a country somewhat affects his position there too. 

 

But if we going to talk about difference in Western and Asian aesthetics it's got to be the costumes... how many times has 'western' viewers complained about his costumes, yet on most Asian platforms he is considered to have by far the best costumes (a lot can't understand why someone would want to go to the Olympics wearing a sweater that looked randomly bought at Uniqulo...). And even the music too,  Semei seem to be the most highly regarded programs of his amongst western viewers, but they tend to find H&L music boring, yet I find a lot of Asians fans actually prefer H&L more, particularly because of the music.  

 

I think China in general is just more open to celebrating overseas talent than US, look at how their national TV shower Yuzu with praises over the years. There's an actual channel in bilibili dedicated to uploading every single mention of Yuzuru Hanyu on CCTV, and there's A LOT over the past 4-5 years. Actual content, not passing mentions. They are actual praises that appreciate his character, strength, and influence, while US was quick to stamp him down even before Nathan appeared. I think China is happy to have Yuzu as a face of virtue, ie. having celebrated traits that many parents will want their child to have, while US didn't care about character as much. Even during the Olympics, where Boyang is a medal contender, no one, no TV outlet blamed Yuzu for squeezing Boyang out to 4th place, and even appreciated him for being gracious to Boyang in the green room when he was squeezed out. All the official news social media picked up Yuzu despite China's strong suit being at pairs, and loved him all the same. Famous TV personalities don't hide the fact that they love Yuzu, and they're proud of it. Of course they support Boyang all the same, but China just have more gracious attitude towards rivals than US. 

 

In short, the Chinese value virtues like hardworking, being polite to others, humbleness, many of which Yuzu exemplifies. It goes back a long way to the Confucianist culture, and they are in awe with someone who can embody all of the prized traits like how Yuzu can. He is the ideal son, boyfriend, husband, grandchild and employee, so no wonder everyone loves him. 

[Yuzurella]

I think this topic of different Asian beauty standards and features that are seemingly distinct for each country or culture quite interesting. First of all, I'd like to point out that Asia is a huge and extremely diverse continent with a sheer endless variety of cultures and peoples. This is something that some people tend to forget when they speak of Asia or Asians. I think what we're talking about here is East Asia, i.e. China, Japan and Korea.

 

To be honest, I'm of Chinese origin and I've never been able to tell East Asians apart country wise based solely on their appearance or facial structure. I myself was often mistaken for Korean whenever I was in China. And when I was in Helsinki last November to watch the grand prix there, every Japanese person who approached me spoke Japanese to me, thinking that I was also from Japan.

 

There are probably some people who tend to look more like they're from a certain country or region, but for the majority that's probably not true. It's like here in Europe. I grew up in Austria and I also couldn't just look at a person and see from their appearance whether they're German or Austrian. I'd need to hear them speak to notice that. The same is true for East Asians, at least for me.

 

What I'm trying to say here is that we shouldn't categorize people based on the shape of their eyes or nose or whatever facial features. I'm aware that there are certain beauty standards in every culture, but that doesn't mean we have to follow them. I believe beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

 

[hoodie axel]

All this talk about how people look... has anyone else ever felt just how strange-looking humans are? Try to just look at someone from the waist down when they're walking. Can't unsee.

[Sombreuil]

I’m afraid that western cultures tend more to the patriotic and less to the quality of individuals when it comes to sport, at least as far as the casual ‘fan’ is concerned.  Someone who knows a lot about a particular sport, especially in individual rather than team sports, is more likely to ignore nationalism in favour of excellence- my husband would never support Murray over Federer for example.  Costumes you get that toxic masculinity thing but it’s a lot worse as far as I can see as regards both attitudes in the US.  In the sports I have followed, tennis, gymnastics, skating, there seems to be a presumption that the US will be successful and almost bewilderment when they’re not.  MAG for example I remember a heated discussion a few years ago about why the men are not as successful as the women - the answer is obviously that boys with the quick twitch reflexes in USA will end up in more lucrative sports - but some US commentators just could not understand, they were certain that Leyva or Mikulak could dethrone Uchimura, and they really didn’t understand when GB ended up above them in the team event.

 

Also sportsmanship is way down the list of what they look for - you need to do something really bad to get called out on it like that swimmer in Rio.

[Figure_Frenzy]

 

6 hours ago, kaeryth said:

The person who did the interview with Joseph Phan said that Yuzu read her blog!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad that he let us know, most of the time we can only assume that he reads (and knows) all that are posted on the internet... 

[hoodie axel]

27 minutes ago, 黃若曦 said:

However I still do not understand why he isn't accepted in Japan as much as he is in China

Wait where is this coming from?

[Anki]

34 minutes ago, 黃若曦 said:

You are absolutely right about this. As someone who was educated under Confucianism, I am able to tell you that Yuzu doesn't just show great sportsmanship, he is perfect.

However I still do not understand why he isn't accepted in Japan as much as he is in China, as the Japanese view moral quality just as much as the Chinese do.

 

JSF and fans of other skaters not accepting him doesn't equal the Japanese public - the Japanese public appreciates Yuzu very much , I mean the parades, the People's Honour awards, and the amount of people that comes to his defence when anyone try to spread negative things about him goes to show he has tremendous public support.  there will always be the gossip shows and magazines - but these shows/magazines attack any celebrity in Japan, not just Yuzu (not to say some things could be commissioned by rivals' agencies...)  

 

As for JSF - we know they have preferred and conflicting interests related to other 'Japanese factions' affiliated skaters that cause them to treat Yuzu the way they do. Again nothing to do with the general public. 

 

15 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I’m afraid that western cultures tend more to the patriotic and less to the quality of individuals when it comes to sport, at least as far as the casual ‘fan’ is concerned.  Someone who knows a lot about a particular sport, especially in individual rather than team sports, is more likely to ignore nationalism in favour of excellence- my husband would never support Murray over Federer for example.  Costumes you get that toxic masculinity thing but it’s a lot worse as far as I can see as regards both attitudes in the US.  In the sports I have followed, tennis, gymnastics, skating, there seems to be a presumption that the US will be successful and almost bewilderment when they’re not.  MAG for example I remember a heated discussion a few years ago about why the men are not as successful as the women - the answer is obviously that boys with the quick twitch reflexes in USA will end up in more lucrative sports - but some US commentators just could not understand, they were certain that Leyva or Mikulak could dethrone Uchimura, and they really didn’t understand when GB ended up above them in the team event.

 

Also sportsmanship is way down the list of what they look for - you need to do something really bad to get called out on it like that swimmer in Rio.

 

And that very swimmer then went on Dancing with the stars to get a redemptive story by the US media 

 

Then you have the "I ,Tonya" movie whitewashing Harding for almost disabling another skater.... 

[twitwi]

1 hour ago, 黃若曦 said:

You are absolutely right about this. As someone who was educated under Confucianism, I am able to tell you that Yuzu doesn't just show great sportsmanship, he is perfect.

However I still do not understand why he isn't accepted in Japan as much as he is in China, as the Japanese view moral quality just as much as the Chinese do.

...It must be a misunderstanding …

[Yuzurella]

1 hour ago, Salior said:

 

I think China in general is just more open to celebrating overseas talent than US, look at how their national TV shower Yuzu with praises over the years. There's an actual channel in bilibili dedicated to uploading every single mention of Yuzuru Hanyu on CCTV, and there's A LOT over the past 4-5 years. Actual content, not passing mentions. They are actual praises that appreciate his character, strength, and influence, while US was quick to stamp him down even before Nathan appeared. I think China is happy to have Yuzu as a face of virtue, ie. having celebrated traits that many parents will want their child to have, while US didn't care about character as much. Even during the Olympics, where Boyang is a medal contender, no one, no TV outlet blamed Yuzu for squeezing Boyang out to 4th place, and even appreciated him for being gracious to Boyang in the green room when he was squeezed out. All the official news social media picked up Yuzu despite China's strong suit being at pairs, and loved him all the same. Famous TV personalities don't hide the fact that they love Yuzu, and they're proud of it. Of course they support Boyang all the same, but China just have more gracious attitude towards rivals than US. 

 

In short, the Chinese value virtues like hardworking, being polite to others, humbleness, many of which Yuzu exemplifies. It goes back a long way to the Confucianist culture, and they are in awe with someone who can embody all of the prized traits like how Yuzu can. He is the ideal son, boyfriend, husband, grandchild and employee, so no wonder everyone loves him. 

 

You're absolutely right. In China, Yuzu's not only popular with his legions of fans. The media are also reporting about him and praising him a lot. I remember when Yuzu got his People's Honor Award, CCTV 2 covered this in their news. Can you imagine a national TV station of a country reporting in their news about a foreign athlete getting a prestigious award in that athlete's home country?

 

Regardless of the fact that Yuzu's Japanese and there's still some tension between China and Japan because of historical reasons, Yuzu seems to be a role model in China, not just for fans but also the media. I agree that Yuzu's virtues are the perfect embodiment of the ideal in Chinese traditional culture. This is probably the reason why the public and media admire and promote Yuzu so much.

[Marte]

31 minutes ago, Sombreuil said:

I’m afraid that western cultures tend more to the patriotic and less to the quality of individuals when it comes to sport, at least as far as the casual ‘fan’ is concerned.  Someone who knows a lot about a particular sport, especially in individual rather than team sports, is more likely to ignore nationalism in favour of excellence- my husband would never support Murray over Federer for example.  Costumes you get that toxic masculinity thing but it’s a lot worse as far as I can see as regards both attitudes in the US.  In the sports I have followed, tennis, gymnastics, skating, there seems to be a presumption that the US will be successful and almost bewilderment when they’re not.  MAG for example I remember a heated discussion a few years ago about why the men are not as successful as the women - the answer is obviously that boys with the quick twitch reflexes in USA will end up in more lucrative sports - but some US commentators just could not understand, they were certain that Leyva or Mikulak could dethrone Uchimura, and they really didn’t understand when GB ended up above them in the team event.

 

Also sportsmanship is way down the list of what they look for - you need to do something really bad to get called out on it like that swimmer in Rio.

 

I think having such a level of patriotism in sport is an american thing, here in Italy, for example, I've never seen anyone pull down a leading athlete in a sport (a champion like Federer/Nadal, Messi/Ronaldo, etc.) for one of our countryman, in fact they are always praised even when they do nothing special 😂 I can say that there is always a lot of respect for all athletes even if they are direct competitors of the Italians. (to be honest we lack patriotism 😂) the case of rai sport figure skating commentators is unique and the majority of people despise their commentary (urgh they are unbearable)

[makebelieveup]

16 hours ago, Yuzurella said:

 

I personally think that this "trend" of a uniform beauty standard has gone too far. I watch quite a few Chinese dramas on a regular basis and I've noticed that there's not even one single actress who doesn't have double eyelids and huge eyes. (With men this doesn't seem to be so extreme.) It's like if you don't have double eyelids, you just cannot be considered beautiful.

 

 

Yeah sadly a lot of female chinese celebrities have looked really similar to one another due to this uniform standard of beauty. They all, and I mean almost all, wear double eyelid tapes. I guess this is also commom in Vietnam and Thailand from what I have seen. The idea is your eyes need to be as sharp as they can for broadcasting purposes. So even those who already have double eyelids, they would still put on eyelid tape to make their eyes more lifted and defined. I wear double eyelid tapes myself but I do think some of them look better without it.

10 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

Spoiler

 

Yes, I'm interested by beauty standards in different countries, especially Asian countries.  In part because in my school my brothers and I were considered "ugly", often being called "flat face" or "chink" (slur for Chinese - where I grew up, "Chink" and "Gook" were used interchangeably since all Asians were the same).  

 

Sorry for the tangent above, but the primary reason I was interested in this particular instance, is because I'm utterly fascinated by Yuzu's popularity in China when China has their own skating stars.  In the US, I can't think of any foreign athlete being promoted above our own.  There are a few instances of foreign athletes gaining fame because of physical beauty and/or a sentimental story, but no matter how beautiful/intelligent/noble/etc., they would never get to the point of surpassing our own stars if we have any in that sport.  Had they skated in the same era, Yuna Kim would never become more popular than Michelle Kwan in spite of Kim's exceptional physical beauty, and the likelihood is that we'd be finding all sorts of excuses for why Kim's skating was terrible - N.A. fans even try to argue that Yuzu isn't the most famous active skater.  It seems like the Chinese are as much or even more crazed for Yuzu than Japan.  I thought there was political tension between JPN and China as well so that's why I'm curious as to why he's so popular in China but not S. Korea and I thought maybe it was, in part, because he's not considered as attractive in S. Korea but that doesn't seem to be the case.  I was curious about how his popularity compared to Kim's in China because of the whole "hope of Asia" thing, since they're both wildly successful Asians.  I think it's also interesting that they embraced Yuzu over ethnically Chinese skaters - why Yuzu but not Patrick Chan or Michelle Kwan who are both very successful and ethnically Chinese - is the lack of Olympic gold? they're regarded as N. American first and Asian second? But Michael Chang was popular in China for being ethnically Chinese, in spite being less successful than others and American.

 

These foreign beauty standards are also interesting because I don't think Yuzu is considered that attractive in America in spite of a much wider variety of beauty standards here.  White versions of his look are extremely popular (boy bands tend to be comprised of the "pretty" or "cute" type) but Asian men in general are not generally considered sex symbols around here and the few who break into mainstream stardom tend to be either comedic types or action stars and the "handsome" types have more of a Keiji look than a Yuzu look.  

 

 

I am so sorry to hear what they said about you. That was definitely bizarre. 

 

I think China just cares a lot more about visual beauty than N.A. Not that N.A. doesn't but not particularly. With Chinese people, you can see there are a lot more flower vases in the entertainment industry. So to have someone who is as talented as Yuzu but also good looking is a rare gem that only comes once in a thousand years. Also, since they already have a lot of OGM in their own country, it's like they are seeking for the other it factors. But I also think one of the reasons I could rationalize why Yuzu is even bigger than Boyang, or Patrick, Nathan, or Vincent (who are all ethnically chinese) is just due to timing. Figure Skating isnt a high profile sport and so especially at Patrick's time, people just werent as interested as they are now. While he is ethnically Chinese, he was not representing China and thus there was just not that many topics to cover about him. I wouldnt think they see him as their own hero since there was no real prize in his achievements for them. So at that time China really doesnt have anyone in the mens single who represents them to support. Yuzu came along and won Sochi. China, while has a huge political tension with Japan for years, is generally receptive of Japanese culture. In fact, I think there is a deeper curiosity for foreign athlete/star. Just like how Japan is very welcoming toward Russian skaters like Evgenia and Alina and American skater like Nathan Chen (though one can argue its just Japan's culture) . At least if it is not a mainstream topic, people are willing to acknowledge Japanese celebrities, beauty, culture...etc. So Yuzu, who looks extremely good looking by their standard, and has incredible talent at such a young age easily became a phenomenon. So when Boyang emerged on the scene, I think Yuzu already has a big fanbase. Not to mention Yuzu has had more achievements than Boyang, so there isnt really a reason why Boyang would become bigger. Also, these fans of figure skating in China are mostly grown through Yuzu's winning the Olympic at Sochi. If Boyang had won PC, maybe he might have a chance to rival Yuzu's popularity but he didnt. 

 

Figure Skating has become bigger in S.K. after Yuna won the Olympic. She is their national treasure. I think to stan Yuzu or Mao is probably like committing treason. Mao was a rival at Yuna's time but Yuzu is a bigger rival for any era because he won 2 OGMs. Like Yuna, Yuzu is Japan's national hero. It's a more apple to apple comparison but Yuzu is active and has more achievements and international followers. He is like the counterpart of Yuna that Korea would have loved to have. In my native language there is a saying that roughly translates as "If you can't eat the grapes, you say they are sour." So I think Yuzu is a bigger threat to Korea than he is to China. They can't have him so they won't acknowledge him. I know he still has a fanbase in Korea though.

 

I think Yuzu just does not fit in the general American beauty standard. The boyband thing like One Direction was popular for their good looks at first but they quickly grew out of their heartthrob image as they age. America doesnt seem to have as much of an appreciation for a clean, nice looking guy image as much as Asia does. They like to promote their stars to have individuality, uniqueness, talent. Ruggedness/ sex appeal in men while the pubescent looks only work when you are teenagers. So as a star, Yuzu might still considered a looking like a noodly teenager or at the most a boyish heartthrob for his age, which is boring and lacking the ruggedness/sex appeal they prefer to see. Since he is so popular though, they tend to talk about his phenomenon almost as if it is unthink of. Sorta like they wonder themselves why, other than his talent, would appeal THAT much to fangirls so sometimes they kinda mock it in a sarcastic way in comparison to other big N.A. skaters. When I say they I mean N.A. media. 

 

Hollywood tends to choose Asian Americans who fit their beauty standards for their own production. Tan skinned, muscular, rugged, flashing white teeth...etc. It's kinda like most Americans/europeans (those who actually have a line) casted in a Chinese drama are fair skinned and slender. 

7 hours ago, eagle said:

 

As for Michelle Kwan, Patrick Chan, now Nathan Chen & Vincent Zhou, I regard them by their nationality. Just as I would like to be known as from X country although being ethnic chinese. Country 1st.

 

 

I am actually wondering whether Nathan or Vincent, too, would become bigger in China than even Boyang. I think their potential achievements, if Chinese fans choose to ignore the inflation, would actually create buzz. I've already seen Chinese judges scored Nathan above Yuzu on several occassions..Surely his ethnicity has to do with it. I wonder if it translates for the fans. As far as looks go, I would say Vincent fits their looks a bit more but I am not sure if they appeal enough to the public to bandwagon. Can anyone tell me how popular Nathan and Vincent are in China?

5 hours ago, Old Cat Lady said:

 

 

I can't think of any Asian actor in an American show or movie that would be a Yuzu type.  The closest I can think of is Glenn from the walking Dead but he doesn't look anything like Yuzu.  It's just that I would consider him to be in the "pretty" category rather than "handsome".

 

 

Looked it up more.  

https://www.goldennumber.net/human-body/

https://www.canva.com/learn/what-is-the-golden-ratio/

I thought the 8 sections was a reference to Manga proportions but I guess Manga characters are designed with this golden ratio concept? 

your brother sounds really goodlooking! sorry, I hope I dont sound creepy

4 hours ago, twitwi said:

Japan, good and bad, but he represents all the good sides, maybe this explains the "hope of asia" concept. Not only japan, but all these qualities, very asia side.  Actually I myself don't really honor some of them, but Yuzu make think oh, it can be done in a good and nature way  i am proud of that i will also follow him to do that.

I remember that Chinese show where the host was raving about Yuzu. They mentioned that he isn't just good looking but also smart and hardworking. He even know about Yuzu's university. #whenwillUSmedia

4 hours ago, Anki said:

I think Yuzu would be more popular in Korea if not for Yuna appearing first. Based on how those Korean flower girls hawked him only at the Olympics gala, you can tell he is sooo their type.  

and the 4CC gala. That was fun and interesting to watch. Shoma was pushed over for Yuzu by a bunch of flower girls. It was pretty rude and silly, to be honest. Their reactions were like they got to meet their kpop idols at a fanmeeting and Yuzu was basically mobbed.

 

2 hours ago, 黃若曦 said:

You are absolutely right about this. As someone who was educated under Confucianism, I am able to tell you that Yuzu doesn't just show great sportsmanship, he is perfect.

However I still do not understand why he isn't accepted in Japan as much as he is in China, as the Japanese view moral quality just as much as the Chinese do.

From what I have heard, Yuzu's attitude toward winning and his competitiveness seem to be some of the reasons. Japan values modesty and wants to keep an attitude of zenlike. Even if they want you to win and support their athlete to be competitive, they don't like hearing "I want to win." "I will win." "winning is everything." but more so "I will try my best. But if I don't win it is okay. I did my best." That's why I think Shoma or Dai's attitude or statement toward competiting is what Japan would like to represent through their athletes. But Yuzu isn't like that and he does not want to be. He explicitly stated in his press conference after PC that the attitude of going into a competition with a smile isn't for him. And he KNOWS he is often criticized for it. Oh well I am just glad Yuzu isnt your typical Japanese anyway. Not sure if it was because he moved abroad at a young age or not, but I always feel like he adapted some of the N.A. traits like the transparency toward one own's feelings, the physical interaction/social skills, and the individualism. He has the best virtues of both worlds. 

[SparkleSalad]

 

 

Sorry to interrupt but I need.

[Sombreuil]

13 minutes ago, Marte said:

 

I think having such a level of patriotism in sport is an american thing, here in Italy, for example, I've never seen anyone pull down a leading athlete in a sport (a champion like Federer/Nadal, Messi/Ronaldo, etc.) for one of our countryman, in fact they are always praised even when they do nothing special 😂 I can say that there is always a lot of respect for all athletes even if they are direct competitors of the Italians. (to be honest we lack patriotism 😂) the case of rai sport figure skating commentators is unique and the majority of people despise their commentary (urgh they are unbearable)

I don’t think they pull the likes of Federer/Biles/Uchimura down in the UK either- but if there is a contender from the uk they do talk them up -  Murray/Downie/Whitlock - not as much as the US but there is a flag waving component.  Just not the sense of being entitled to do well and justification (injury, local bias) or blame (the athlete/the coaching programme) when they don’t that you get with US media.