General Yuzuru Chat

[airi]

31 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

I was here in Nov 2017, and I would like to have his glorious 4Lz back. It's now hard due to the damage the injury did to his ankle (which then makes the take off to Flip and Lutz more difficult), but a fair number of us here in this forum atributed that injury mostly to him insisted on practicing with a fever. He was injured as he landed the jump, which is always the exact same foot and the same edge, no matter the type of jump.

He wasn't doing a 4Lz when he reinjured himself this time around, was he? Are we gonna write off that jump for him as well?

I'd say, go for it, Zu. As long as your health allows. Get those 4A and 4Lz, but reasonably.

 

ETA: aaand that's my 4000th post, which coincidentally made me '4A'. Signs, signs everywhere!!!

Yes, that! I understand if there's some mental block about that jump, that's pretty normal. And I certainly don't need him to do it. But It'd be nice if he can get it back eventually, if he wants to. And I believe he wants to, not like it's necessary, and other things are more important, but still.

And yes, that day in November that could happen on any jump.

[PoohCannelle]

1 hour ago, airi said:

I think we will never know beforehand when he actually decides that, but I guess the discussion about 2020 is because before people where discussing about 2019 and he actually said about plans for the next season, so. I guess some people still can't understand how he can still want to skate after everything he accomplished.

 

 

I don't understand why some people can't understand how he can still want to skate ?

When Michelangelo sculpted ''David'', people weren't ''Oh that's awesome ... now can you just stop".

Or very good musicians and composers ''Ok you've already played and record a lot of pieces. Your quota is full. Stop playing music"

Same for Usain Bolt in Rio. Can we just enjoy people that like what there are doing 

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, utsukushii3A said:

I'm too much of a superstitious Russian to actually type out my whole theory without feeling like I'm going to jinx Yuzu, but God willing that he's able to physically/health-wise, I really don't think he'll be able to resist the prospect of a third Olympic gold in a row. (crossing self and knocking wood and making spitting noises over shoulder frantically)

 

 Has anyone done that in figure skating? We all know how much he loves doing things that have never been done. Yes, he's skating for himself now, but what's more himself than a third Olympic gold?  

Well, for starters, there are plenty of three-time Olympians in figure skating. Javi was one. Patrick Chan. Tessa&Scott. Plushenko (I think). Aljona who finally got a gold at her fifth Olympics and still hasn't ruled out going again! 

 

So, in that sense, Yuzu wouldn't exactly be blazing a trail if he hung on until 2022. 

 

Whether he can remain on top is a different matter. There is an AWFUL lot of very competitive youngsters coming along. 

 

But. I do think that if Yuzu thinks it's possible, he'll do everything in his power to achieve it. 

 

Of course, by then he'll be beyond stardom; he'll have become a supernova. 

[ICeleste]

hace 52 minutos , yuzupon said:

He was injured as he landed the jump, which is always the exact same foot and the same edge, no matter the type of jump.

 He wasn't doing a 4Lz when he reinjured himself this time around, was he? Are we gonna write off that jump for him as well?

as @airi said I was referring mostly to the potential mental block linked to 4lz. Rationally speaking you're right but I still couldn't help feeling more uneasy if I saw him going for it than if he did any other "easier" quad. (I think Brian has mentioned that Yuzu was against training 4lz again but I'm not sure?)

About this year's injury, yes I'm aware that it happened on a 4Lo but I don't think the fall was as severe and I'm not sure the impact would've been as bad if his ankle hadn't suffered a previous injury already. I mean, we can't really compare the severity of two incidents because this year he fell on the foot that had already been hurt before.

[yuzupon]

13 minutes ago, ICeleste said:

as @airi said I was referring mostly to the potential mental block linked to 4lz. Rationally speaking you're right but I still couldn't help feeling more uneasy if I saw him going for it than if he did any other "easier" quad. (I think Brian has mentioned that Yuzu was against training 4lz again but I'm not sure?)

About this year's injury, yes I'm aware that it happened on a 4Lo but I don't think the fall was as severe and I'm not sure the impact would've been as bad if his ankle hadn't suffered a previous injury already. I mean, we can't really compare the severity of two incidents because this year he fell on the foot that had already been hurt before.

Oh, I know, and understand. 

But you see, your line of thinking about the 4Lo fall, that's similar to how I saw what happened in Nov 2017. If he hadn't insisted practicing while sustaining a fever, that injury perhaps wouldn't have happened. It just so happens that the fall happened when he jumped 4Lz, but it could literally be any jumps. It was the fever, not the 4Lz specifically. I also don't like the "writing off of the 4Lz because it 'injured' him", because the US media used that line, adding "the jump that our skaters landed regularly" when reporting about it. I was and still am very pissed about that. And so, would really like to see Zu proves them wrong.

As to Zu being against training 4Lz, I don't think it's mental and iirc it wasn't reported that way. It's, again, the fact that the picking foot for both Lz and F is the injured foot. That's why even the 3F and 3Lz were the slowest to come back. Adding to that Zu peculiar picking technique, it's more the actual physicality of the jumps than a mental block. I, for one, welcome the day he could pick well again with the injured foot, because that would mean his ankle is definitely healed. 

[Aotoshiro]

Since main chat is back on the what ifs ankle topic let me just mention that last year, this year and all the following ankle injuries, god forbid their existence *make every superstitious sign against evil in existence here* spur mostly from continuous strain on the joint for decades of training now+ the aggravated injury skated through at 16 (yes, I AM dragging Nice for that). I know it sounds funny, but Yuzuru was a gd teen noodle with growing body by then, and while healing was quicker then, it collided with growth and adjustments coming from it that would definitely weaken the ligaments.

Right now, Yuzuru has like, two (?) uninjured ligaments in his right ankle, and that's only if my math and bio recap are somewhat correct (and data available to us are FULL medical records which I doubt, unfortunately-also, I don't think left ankle is without injuries either, thanks CoC #sarcasm, but since it's not the landing foot let's not go there). However, It says nothing about anything but his ligaments...not his health, nor his career longevity (I thing Empress Sui has had operation on the ligaments of both of her feet? Then again she needs to land throws)

 

Re: Lutz being mental issue, Brian did say Yuzu looks a bit scared of the jump, but he said that it looks like that TO HIM. It might as well be just mix of Yuzu deciding, screw Lutz, I want 4A at the beginning of this season (the interview Brian has said that in was released somewhere around ACL) and his natural lean towards beautiful edge jumps...which means we might see 4Lo sometime....

 

I think I just want to say, speculation and what ifs are fine 'nd all, but in all honesty we know nothing until Yuzuru comes out and does something. Which means we're screwed because TCC trains only kings of YOLO.

[utsukushii3A]

I might have missed something, but I think the mental block thing might have come from a translation of an interview where he said he had some 不安 over the Lutz. It was translated as something like "I have some anxiety over the Lutz", but in that context, it would have been much more accurate in English as "I have some concerns about the Lutz". Unlike in English, where the word "anxiety" is very often assumed to refer to some psychological problem, I'm pretty sure it's still very common in Japanese to use the dictionary definition, which is, "a feeling of worry, nervousness, or unease about something with an uncertain outcome".

 

Unlike any other jump, Lutzes take off from the opposite edge as the landing, meaning that you have to jump in the opposite direction that you're traveling. From a physics standpoint, a 4Lz could be much more taxing on a previously injured ankle than any other jump, including the 4A.

 

I think his "anxiety" about it was more along the lines of whether or not he can do it without destroying his ankle, not that he had deemed it perfectly safe but was too scared to try.

[AKC]

Um, yeah. Nathan Chen - 130.30 TES today at US Nats. I can hear Yuzu on the ice rink right now from two thousand miles away.  I just want him to live up to the ideal he has for himself especially at home (Worlds).  Yuzu is so special, so if wants - and I know this might sound crazy to some people - to do the 4A in Japan at Worlds, it does sound like something he would do.   His motivation had to have gone up after today and if anyone can achieve it, he can.

[airi]

2 minutes ago, AKC said:

Um, yeah. Nathan Chen - 130.30 TES today at US Nats. I can hear Yuzu on the ice rink right now from two thousand miles away.  I just want him to live up to the ideal he has for himself especially at home (Worlds).  Yuzu is so special, so if wants - and I know this might sound crazy to some people - to do the 4A in Japan at Worlds, it does sound like something he would do.   His motivation had to have gone up after today and if anyone can achieve it, he can.

And I believe he actually takes Nathan's scores a lot more calmly that most of us here. No 4A. He's more rational than that.

[EisElle]

posting this very important reminder

more info in the thread. Let's join and celbrate the anniversary!

the deadline for submission is CLOSE and I still haven't submitted ahhhh I have the message saved I just need to write it on papaer without overthinking too much about handwriting on common print paper being drab ahhhhhh

 

Anyway

 

3 hours ago, Henni147 said:

 

Gillis won three Olympic titles, but the first one was at the Olympics in Antwerpen 1920. At that point in history there have been no seperate Winter Games yet and figure skating was exceptionally part of the Summer Games.

 

So... Yuzu would be the first skater to win three back-to-back titles at Olympic Winter Games

Interesting

1 hour ago, yuzupon said:

I was here in Nov 2017, and I would like to have his glorious 4Lz back. It's now hard due to the damage the injury did to his ankle (which then makes the take off to Flip and Lutz more difficult), but a fair number of us here in this forum atributed that injury mostly to him insisted on practicing with a fever. He was injured as he landed the jump, which is always the exact same foot and the same edge, no matter the type of jump.

He wasn't doing a 4Lz when he reinjured himself this time around, was he? Are we gonna write off that jump for him as well?

I'd say, go for it, Zu. As long as your health allows. Get those 4A and 4Lz, but reasonably.

 

ETA: aaand that's my 4000th post, which coincidentally made me '4A'. Signs, signs everywhere!!!

I'd cry tears of joy if I could see that sneaky beauty again!

heck, I've cried tears of joy for the come back of the 3Lz in practice (so short-lived sob) and I'm pretty sure I'll cry tears of joy when I'll see any of Yuzu's triples and quads back again.

Iirc what Yuzuru said about the lutz (back in ACI?) is that he felt some kind of discomfort(?), but it could mean everything. I though it was more physical than mental tho. He didn't look like he had any particular hesitation when he went the 3Lz in practice, right? Of course the quad would place a whole different burden on his foot, plus it was his most recent quad, so not much muscle memory. With Yuzuru still wanting the 4A, THE king of jumps, it would be unnecessary risky to go again for a 4Lz that he theoretically doesn't even need (and he wouldn't need it in reality too, if e.g. all the 4Lzs and 4Fs received a fraction of the degree of scrutiny his 4S received. Heck, that jump hit all 6 bullets more than once and I haven't seen the shower of +5 that 4lutzes that remains stuck in place on the landing or UR 4flips receive)

Also, the new system punishes mistakes a lot. All skaters baance risks and benefits. For Yuzuru (and even more so now when he's again coming back for injury) would make 0 sense to go for a 4Lz all of a sudden.

(and if Yuzuru will, one day in the future, jump 4Lz in competition again, 99,99999999% of chances it will be in the FS. Not in the SP. He was't even SP 4Lo this season and with good reason. He wasn't planning SP 4Lz last season either. Risks-rewards. Actually, all the men on podium in PyeongChang had somehow "conservative" layouts. Even Shoma, who had gone back to 4 quads after starting the season with 5)

 

As a fan, I selfishly want to watch more beautiful 4Lz. With Misha's 4Lz being MIA too, I'm pinning my hopes on Boyang's

(not saying that there aren't other 4Lz around, but... they are not the same)

 

1 hour ago, PoohCannelle said:

 

I don't understand why some people can't understand how he can still want to skate ?

When Michelangelo sculpted ''David'', people weren't ''Oh that's awesome ... now can you just stop".

Or very good musicians and composers ''Ok you've already played and record a lot of pieces. Your quota is full. Stop playing music"

Same for Usain Bolt in Rio. Can we just enjoy people that like what there are doing 

I guess it's another side of the coin for "he's taking away spots from others! He's preventing other skaters from winning medals! Leave room for them!". Well, the other skaters are free to try and win with their own strenght (and sometimes judges are more than willing to help them too)

 

12 minutes ago, Aotoshiro said:

Since main chat is back on the what ifs ankle topic let me just mention that last year, this year and all the following ankle injuries, god forbid their existence *make every superstitious sign against evil in existence here* spur mostly from continuous strain on the joint for decades of training now+ the aggravated injury skated through at 16 (yes, I AM dragging Nice for that).

I think he talked about some sprain in junior years too? But yeah, the ankle got weak because that's what practicing a competitive sport does, any competitive sport: it wears the body out.

Figure skating is particularly bad for ankles and back (as we know of many, too many skaters, even young skaters, suffering of back pain). that's the sad reality.

Another sad reality is that once you injury a joint it's easier to have another injury.

Yuzuru has been landing quads on that right ankle for around 10 years now and he has sprained it who knows how many times (how many times we don't know anything about). That he still has able to jump beautifully is a testament to his good technique. And his good technique is now vital for him, because he can't take many falls, he can't twist that ankle too much.

Sadly a fall that could have left a normal ankle kinda ok is awful for his ankle with barely any ligament left.

Those words frighten me whenever I think about them, but if that's what Yuzuru wants, if he thinks the pain and the risk is worth it, who am I to ask him to stop? So I'm just doing my best not to think about that poor ankle, and focus instead on supporting Yuzuru and enjoying what he gives us.

 

Maybe in an alternative reality we could go back in time and tell young Zuzu "wait, don't train on sprained ankle, boy, you now go and rest, so when you'll take a fall 10 years from now your ankle won't suffer too much".

Or maybe better: "wait, do not train quads like crazy while you are tired or you'll end spraining your ankle before the competition and then you'll choose to skate thorugh the injury and get your first senior world medal with an unforgettable performance" I have the feeling this wouldn't work well

Well. We can't go back in time.

Maybe current Yuzuru would tell his younger self to be a little bit less reckless in some circumstances, but being "reckless" was also being "himself". Let's just hope Yuzuru may pass on all his acquired wisdom as coachYuzu

 

 

 

[micaelis]

Earlier comments along the line that Yuzu is skating on a wholly different level I think are right on.  I've commented before that I think Yuzu's skating has taken on an almost mystical aura.  He's not skating.  He's meditating.  He's contemplating.  He's praying.  Whatever we call it what we can say for certain is that it's not skating for points.  It's skating for perfection. 

 

As to the ever-elusive 4A, with all the time Yuzu has had to work on it I think if we want maximum theatricality, given that there are no Olympics this year, the World Championship is the ideal time and place to let the world know Yuzu's made the grade.  For maximum impact I'd do it the first time in the Short Program, so that it will have maximum power to discourage the other skaters.  Seeing that they'll find themselves saying - How can we ever beat that - knowing that if he's done it once he can do it again, in the Free Skate, and if Yuzu feels totally confident he'll do it twice in the free skate, the second time in combination.  After such a tour de force I think  psychologically the rest of the field will figure the contest is for the silver.  

[Sombreuil]

I think we’re all projecting our own anxieties onto YH and we have no idea of his thought processes.   Some of us may be right/wrong / any interval in between, but none of us know.   I realise that it’s really difficult not to speculate, but can we not?  Just accept what we get, knowing it will be his best effort, whatever transpires and try not to add to the boiling pot?

[airi]

13 minutes ago, micaelis said:

Earlier comments along the line that Yuzu is skating on a wholly different level I think are right on.  I've commented before that I think Yuzu's skating has taken on an almost mystical aura.  He's not skating.  He's meditating.  He's contemplating.  He's praying.  Whatever we call it what we can say for certain is that it's not skating for points.  It's skating for perfection. 

 

As to the ever-elusive 4A, with all the time Yuzu has had to work on it I think if we want maximum theatricality, given that there are no Olympics this year, the World Championship is the ideal time and place to let the world know Yuzu's made the grade.  For maximum impact I'd do it the first time in the Short Program, so that it will have maximum power to discourage the other skaters.  Seeing that they'll find themselves saying - How can we ever beat that - knowing that if he's done it once he can do it again, in the Free Skate, and if Yuzu feels totally confident he'll do it twice in the free skate, the second time in combination.  After such a tour de force I think  psychologically the rest of the field will figure the contest is for the silver.  

Sorry, I thought I have a big imagination, but you clearly win  

We have to remember boy possibly didn't even start to jump yet, guys

[ICeleste]

Hace 1 hora, yuzupon said:

I also don't like the "writing off of the 4Lz because it 'injured' him", because the US media used that line, adding "the jump that our skaters landed regularly" when reporting about it. I was and still am very pissed about that. And so, would really like to see Zu proves them wrong.

Ohh I understand. I was here in 2017 when the injury happened but the next 2 months I was completely disconnected from figure skating since I wasn't in the mood after my favorite artist passed away in December. That's also why I'm so outraged at the scoring today: it's my first time watching US Nats and seeing such inflated scores. So I'm sorry, if I had read those articles I'd been more cautious with my wording. I didn't mean he should drop "the jump that injured him", I just think that when he's healthy enough he should channel all of his energy into 4A if that's his priority. I'd also understand if he dropped 4lo/3f/3lz for that same goal. I think that achieving his childhood dream of 4A is more imporant to him right now than breaking WRs or proving he can do 4lz. But of course this is only speculation and I'm not in his head. Hopefully he'll be healthy enough to bring back as many jumps as he wishes.

 

[Sabrina]

Who knows whats really going on right now ? Only he and the TCC team and a few others ! I guess it is best if we believe in him and when he is ready we will see what he is capable of ! I know it is easier said then done but I guess he will surprise when we are able to see him again !