General Yuzuru Chat

[Katt]

8 hours ago, xeyra said:

I know the conversation moved on from Otoñal to the 4A but I wanted to bring attention to something regarding the long spread eagle in front of the judges and the hope of more arm movement there. I'm not sure if people have noticed, but the SE is during a silent moment in the music and he only moves his arm right as there's a note after the silence. It's so well timed it gives me chills (also more noticeable on fancams from certain angles). So while I think he needs to tighten his body and shoulders more not to seem so nonchalant during that SE, I'm now not sure if I want the effectiveness of that movement right on the note to be diminished if he's moving his arms more often during the SE.

 

I wouldn't mind if he went with the suggestion I've seen to change his first spin and his combo order. It might fit the music just as well as the layout he currently has. 

The SE in Otonal is one of my favourite detail. The music went silent so I think it make sense that he didn't have any arm movement ?? Maybe a deeper hip turnout could highlight his SE better. 

I think there's couple of timing in 2nd half that he could put his combo and its till match the music. The layout like 4S 3A sit spin 4T3T spin stsq spin could work well, or even move the combo after 2 spins. 

 

[kaeryth]

 

[Murieleirum]

3 hours ago, xeyra said:

So while I think he needs to tighten his body and shoulders more not to seem so nonchalant during that SE, I'm now not sure if I want the effectiveness of that movement right on the note to be diminished if he's moving his arms more often during the SE.

 

Yes, I think he only needs to define/refine the beginning, the entry of that movement into SE, not the SE moment per se. 

[axelsandwich]

13 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

Yes, I think he only needs to define/refine the beginning, the entry of that movement into SE, not the SE moment per se. 

Agreed, the minimalist SE and the stare he gave the judges was great, it was the way he kind of relaxed a bit too much after the jump and before the SE that didn't quite look 'finished'. But I don't worry it will be left incomplete -- I'm really just excited to see how the program has transformed between ACI and Helsinki. 

 

40 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

 

I get so emotional whenever I hear someone like Shuzo-san talk about Yuzu. Truly, I'm glad there's someone in the media who really just gets it (as a former sportsman). You can feel his sincere and genuine respect for Yuzu so clearly in the way he talks, you can tell Shuzo himself is someone who thinks and sees very deeply into Yuzu, who really takes the time to consider things from Yuzu's perspective. I'm really touched he was so candid about his impressions, as much as it breaks my heart to hear him echo the thought that Yuzu must have been hurt deeply at various points ;;; The purest hypeman, deserving of an OGM being placed around his neck in thanks   

[Murieleirum]

11 minutes ago, kaerb said:

But I don't worry it will be left incomplete -- I'm really just excited to see how the program has transformed between ACI and Helsinki. 

 

This is the best thing about being Yuzuru fans. You can always expect the programs to change drastically from one competition to the other. He always improves because he is hypercritical of himself and knows that the artistic impression lies on the refinement of each and every single movement (which is a very Japanese mindset, I should say). I'd say that other skaters rely on the 'casual perfection' and don't chase perfection through movement refinement. This will never not surprise me. Because in an environment like music, perfection through movement refinement to the quarter of the second is everyone's rule. In the skating world, Yuzuru has a different mindset from all the others, but in the music world, for example, I'd say his mindset is pretty much the standard! 

[axelsandwich]

10 minutes ago, Murieleirum said:

 

This is the best thing about being Yuzuru fans. You can always expect the programs to change drastically from one competition to the other. He always improves because he is hypercritical of himself and knows that the artistic impression lies on the refinement of each and every single movement (which is a very Japanese mindset, I should say). I'd say that other skaters rely on the 'casual perfection' and don't chase perfection through movement refinement. This will never not surprise me. Because in an environment like music, perfection through movement refinement to the quarter of the second is everyone's rule. In the skating world, Yuzuru has a different mindset from all the others, but in the music world, for example, I'd say his mindset is pretty much the standard! 

To be fair, I think all skaters seek to improve their programs between each competition and are all chasing their own 'perfection'. But due to gaps in ability or taste or sensibility, perhaps they aren't able to or don't address all areas and their definition of 'perfection' differs. Perhaps all their energy is concentrated into getting the jumps correctly, or maybe they simply lack a more refined appreciation for musical nuances so they will 'stop' at a certain point and be satisfied, where other skaters may keep at it, chasing an endpoint only they can envision. I think the fact that FS blends a whole bunch of 'frames of mind' sometimes gets overlooked -- with art, I can chip away at a painting obsessively using my 'artistic' knowledge but at least all I need to worry about is my eyes and hands from a physical level, whereas figure skaters are chipping away on several fronts. 

 

It takes both technical prowess and a hypercritical, perfectionist and degree of obsessive dedication (in a good way) to the program concept and music to try and refine it on all fronts and to do so noticeably and with such speed. It's not entirely a surprise to me why Yuzu is a slow starter in that regard, but the potential is simmering and so noticeable. Helsinki can't come quickly enough ;;  

[Murieleirum]

16 minutes ago, kaerb said:

To be fair, I think all skaters seek to improve their programs between each competition and are all chasing their own 'perfection'. But due to gaps in ability or taste or sensibility, perhaps they aren't able to or don't address all areas and their definition of 'perfection' differs. Perhaps all their energy is concentrated into getting the jumps correctly, or maybe they simply lack a more refined appreciation for musical nuances so they will 'stop' at a certain point and be satisfied, where other skaters may keep at it, chasing an endpoint only they can envision. I think the fact that FS blends a whole bunch of 'frames of mind' sometimes gets overlooked -- with art, I can chip away at a painting obsessively using my 'artistic' knowledge but at least all I need to worry about is my eyes and hands from a physical level, whereas figure skaters are chipping away on several fronts. 

 

It takes both technical prowess and a hypercritical, perfectionist and degree of obsessive dedication (in a good way) to the program concept and music to try and refine it on all fronts and to do so noticeably and with such speed. It's not entirely a surprise to me why Yuzu is a slow starter in that regard, but the potential is simmering and so noticeable. Helsinki can't come quickly enough ;;  

 

Ah, I agree on so many fronts... and yes, definitely the gaps of sensibility are very tangible to me. And Yuzuru's slow start of the season is completely normal exactly for the things you said. And it makes it that much more exciting!! Helsinki is just around the corner... 

[Xen]

I do wonder what Yuzu's real ceiling is in terms of abilities. 

Think about all the limitations already placed on him physically/mentally/emotionally and just life experiences in general. Asthma, more injuries perhaps than normal, Tohoku earthquake delaying his training....and yet even despite these issues, look at what he has achieved artistically and athletically. 

[ruruzest]

3 hours ago, kaeryth said:

 

At first glance I misunderstood about the training that Yuzu had to give up ( I thought he just simply gave up training because of the injury) but reading it again it was the planned lay out that he had to give up! Oh Yuzu ! The beautiful 4L and the fated 4 Lz!! On his dream stage of Olympic!! ( I myself was bitter about “what could have been “ for a while but I snapped out of it and ashamed of my greediness)  You have got the gold medal with a Herculean effort which is more meaningful than anything else! You will have more chances to present your showcase to the world!

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

On 2018/10/1 at 午後9時44分, rockstaryuzuさんが言いました:

On the contrary, Yuzu is exactly the dictionary definition of phenomenon:

 

phenomenon noun [ C ] (EXISTING THING)

C1 something that exists and can beseen, felt, tasted, etc., especiallysomething unusual or interesting:

 

Unless you wish to argue that he doesn't exist and can't be seen and isn't unusual or interesting.

 

 

You...seem to always miss the point I try to make. Or simply misunderstand what I say. Is it my writing style? Cos I know exactly what a phenomenon means, albeit I appreciate your effort in outlining the definition to me in case I didn't.

 

Basically, I wasn't saying that he wasn't one. I was saying that he's more than one. Unless you wish to argue that a phenomenon is all he is, and nothing more.

 

On 2018/10/1 at 午後9時44分, rockstaryuzuさんが言いました:

From what I witnessed myself at ACI, there is a marked difference in behaviour between those who sportsfan Yuzu and those who idol fan Yuzu. And those who idol fan him are definitely stepping over those lines that you mention. The idol fans are willing to lose control of themselves in their pursuit of Yuzu as an object; despite some screaming, cheering, and clapping at appropriate times and some stuffed-animal tossing, the sportsfans are not willing to abandon their rationality in the same way. 

 

 

Like I said, I'm well aware of the difference, and I'm only defending the ones who haven't crossed the line but are being judged as though they have. I see nothing wrong with taking vacation days to see him in comps (because how else are you supposed to spend your hard-earned vacation days if not to make yourself happy?) and thinking up of banners to make for him and regarding his comps as a rock concert of sorts because for all intents and purposes, he turns all comps that feature him into one.

 

In case you're not sure about what I'm referring to, which you probably aren't given what you said and the way you said it, it's this:

 

On 2018/9/30 at 午前12時54分, flusteredflurryさんが言いました:

He kept emphasizing how much like a 'kpop idol' Yuzu is regarded there and his Japanese colleagues were talking about taking off-days to see Yuzu in Helsinki and the kind of banners they were making over lunch. He told me they were talking like going to Helsinki was a kind of 'concert' for them and I found that a little worrying tbh? It's nice to know that he's getting the love he deserves back home but he's an athlete -- not part of a boy band... 

 

This is exactly what many of us do here anyway and they spoke about it as though it's worrying behavior which I took mild offense in. I mean their dad probably doesn't know the difference between crazy fans and fans who are simply dedicated, given he is probably a middle-aged dude (heck I didn't until I became a fan of Hanyu myself) but they basically just called out most everyone here as excessive fans, from the very meager example they gave. If the examples they gave are what the kpop fans do, and what they're doing is distasteful, then I guess we're all as guilty as they are, aren't we? Although I'm guessing kpop fans normally go way beyond just these given that idol worship is exactly what these kpop artistes thrive on. And no doubt there are this sort nestled among the Hanyu fandom (him looking like one of them kpop idols prolly doesn't help matters much) and well, I'm going to refrain from commenting on them since theirs is a culture I can hardly understand.

 

And you know what's funny? I may say "we" but I'm really not even offended on my own behalf seeing as I have never attended a single comp and don't harbor any serious intentions to and even if I do end up going to one at some point (as much as I dislike the nerves, I really wouldn't mind going as he seems to always bring the house down wherever he goes to compete, and if that isn't rock concert phenomenon, I dunno what is--and you know what, I like rock concerts, more than I ever will figure skating comps, and if that makes me an excessive fan, well then, I'm happy to be one), fat chance I'll be able to get off my lazy ass to make a banner or spend my hard-earned money on buying expensive gifts to throw (which given my woeful throwing arm, is probably gonna land halfway down somebody's shirt three rows in front, plus I also would have spent most of my money on tickets and travel).

 

But I do admire people who are able and willing to make the effort to make the guy happy with their thoughtful gestures. It's fannish behavior, sure, but what do you expect from fans of someone as charismatic and inspirational and beyond phenomenal as Hanyu is? Casual fan behavior? That would mean Hanyu isn't a phenomenon at all but he is, more than that even, so I don't consider it excessive and find it insulting when people insinuate that it is, especially when excessive is exactly what you and @Yatagarasu  described. I wasn't defending his crazier fans, I was defending the people here. I'm surprised no one else but me found that comment a bit off-putting, and a bunch of people here even liked it. I mean, I'm aware that the person probably didn't mean anything hurtful by it, judging from the tone of everything else they said, but still.

 

Anyway, this is all I'm going to say on this matter. I hope I managed to get my point clearly across this time but if not, I give up. 

 

3 時間前, Xenさんが言いました:

I do wonder what Yuzu's real ceiling is in terms of abilities. 

 

I don't think we'll ever know because one of the biggest limitations of the human body is time. 

 

3 時間前, Xenさんが言いました:

Think about all the limitations already placed on him physically/mentally/emotionally and just life experiences in general. Asthma, more injuries perhaps than normal, Tohoku earthquake delaying his training....and yet even despite these issues, look at what he has achieved artistically and athletically. 

 

I'm of the mind that it is these roadblocks and him overcoming them that make up the exact reason why he is who he is today. Without them, he'll probably be much weaker because it's in overcoming these tests that he becomes stronger. Not just him, but humans in general. He just has a stronger mind than most, which makes him exceptional because the average human mind is actually plenty strong. Sure, his mental fortitude may not be the greatest but what he lacks in that department, he more than makes up for in offensive mental strength. >_<

[micaelis]

2 hours ago, Xen said:

I do wonder what Yuzu's real ceiling is in terms of abilities. 

Think about all the limitations already placed on him physically/mentally/emotionally and just life experiences in general. Asthma, more injuries perhaps than normal, Tohoku earthquake delaying his training....and yet even despite these issues, look at what he has achieved artistically and athletically. 

Yuzuru hasn't achieved what he has despite those issues.  He's achieved what he has because of those.  They're the challenges life set before him and he worked hard at overcoming those issues and in working harder overcoming those he also was enabled to work harder overcoming the challenges he faced in becoming the skater he wanted to be.  Those challenges were the dress rehearsals for the challenges he's faced in skating.  If Yuzu hadn't had those challenges life put before him I don't think he would have achieved what he has as a skater.  

[rockstaryuzu]

1 hour ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

You...seem to always miss the point I try to make. Or simply misunderstand what I say. Is it my writing style? Cos I know exactly what a phenomenon means, albeit I appreciate your effort in outlining the definition to me in case I didn't.

 

Basically, I wasn't saying that he wasn't one. I was saying that he's more than one. Unless you wish to argue that a phenomenon is all he is, and nothing more.

 

 

Like I said, I'm well aware of the difference, and I'm only defending the ones who haven't crossed the line but are being judged as though they have. I see nothing wrong with taking off days to see him in comps and thinking up of banners to make for him and regarding his comps as a rock concert of sorts because for all intents and purposes, he turns all comps that feature him into one.

 

In case you're not sure about what I'm referring to, which you probably aren't given what you said and the way you said it, it's this:

 

 

This is exactly what many of us do here anyway and they spoke about it as though it's worrying behavior which I took mild offense in. I mean their dad probably doesn't know the difference between crazy fans and fans who are simply dedicated, given he is probably a middle-aged dude (heck I didn't until I became a fan of Hanyu myself) but they basically just called out most everyone here as excessive fans, from the very meager example they gave. If the examples they gave are what the kpop fans do, and what they're doing is distasteful, then I guess we're all as guilty as they are, aren't we? Although I'm guessing kpop fans normally go way beyond just these given that idol worship is exactly what these kpop artistes thrive on. And no doubt there are this sort nestled among the Hanyu fandom (him looking like one of them kpop idols prolly doesn't help matters much) and well, I'm going to refrain from commenting on them since theirs is a culture I can hardly understand.

 

And you know what's funny? I may say "we" but I'm really not even offended on my own behalf seeing as I have never attended a single comp and don't harbor any serious intentions to and even if I do end up going to one at some point (as much as I dislike the nerves, I really wouldn't mind going as he seems to always bring the house down wherever he goes to compete, and if that isn't rock concert phenomenon, I dunno what is--and you know what, I like rock concerts, more than I ever will figure skating comps, and if that makes me an excessive fan, well then, I'm happy to be one), fat chance I'll be able to get off my lazy ass to make a banner or spend my hard earned money on buying expensive gifts to throw (which given my woeful throwing arm, is probably gonna land halfway down somebody's shirt three rows in front, plus I also would have spent most of my money on tickets and travel).

 

But I do admire people who are able and willing to make the effort to make the guy happy. It's fannish behavior, sure, but what do you expect from fans of someone as charismatic and inspirational and okay, phenomenal as Hanyu is? Casual fan behavior? That would mean Hanyu isn't a phenomenon at all but he is, more than that even, so I don't consider it excessive and find it insulting when people insinuate that it is, especially when excessive is exactly what you and @Yatagarasu  described. I wasn't defending his crazier fans, I was defending the people here. I'm surprised no one else but me found that comment a bit off-putting, and a bunch of people here even liked it. I mean, I'm aware that the person probably didn't mean anything hurtful by it, judging from the tone of everything else they said, but still.

 

Anyway, this is all I'm going to say on this matter. I hope I managed to get my point clearly across this time but if not, I give up. 

 

 

I don't think we'll ever know because one of the biggest limitations of the human body is time. 

 

 

I'm of the mind that it is these roadblocks and him overcoming them that make up the exact reason why he is who he is today. Without them, he'll probably be much weaker because it's in overcoming these tests that he becomes stronger. Not just him, but humans in general. He just has a stronger mind than most, which makes him exceptional because the average human mind is actually plenty strong. Sure, his mental fortitude may not be the greatest but what he lacks in that department, he more than makes up for in offensive mental strength. >_<

Considering that the posts of mine you're responding to are between three weeks and a month old, and buried deeply in the thread and that the rest of the discussion has moved on from there, I'm quite surprised you've taken so much time out of your day to write this response now.

 

I don't want to drag the rest of the forum discussion back there, so rather than address your points, I'll say this: when I read a post and respond to it, I'm responding to the actual words that appear on the page, because I can't guess at what a writer may have actually meant by their words. If you think I'm misunderstanding you all the time, then maybe your words aren't accurately reflecting what you mean to say. 

 

One of the mods here told me that the Planet forums are set up so that everyone sees them in their own language. That's wonderful, but it could cause a poster's meanings to be lost in translation. Since I'm a native English speaker, and a writer at that, I see many layers of nuance and meaning in the things people say here, and I often forget that the original post might not even have been written in English. Therefore I sometimes find that other posters have said things they may not have meant to say. I don't know if this is the case for you, but if so, then I will try to keep it in mind in the future when I read your posts.

 

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

2 時間前, rockstaryuzuさんが言いました:

Considering that the posts of mine you're responding to are between three weeks and a month old, and buried deeply in the thread and that the rest of the discussion has moved on from there, I'm quite surprised you've taken so much time out of your day to write this response now.

 

I don't want to drag the rest of the forum discussion back there, so rather than address your points, I'll say this: when I read a post and respond to it, I'm responding to the actual words that appear on the page, because I can't guess at what a writer may have actually meant by their words. If you think I'm misunderstanding you all the time, then maybe your words aren't accurately reflecting what you mean to say. 

 

One of the mods here told me that the Planet forums are set up so that everyone sees them in their own language. That's wonderful, but it could cause a poster's meanings to be lost in translation. Since I'm a native English speaker, and a writer at that, I see many layers of nuance and meaning in the things people say here, and I often forget that the original post might not even have been written in English. Therefore I sometimes find that other posters have said things they may not have meant to say. I don't know if this is the case for you, but if so, then I will try to keep it in mind in the future when I read your posts.

 

 

 

Hmm seems like I may have misinterpreted your words earlier (looks like you're not the only one guilty of it, sorry bout that) so I'm editing this:

 

I didn't look at this board for a while. When I did and saw your comment, even though it was weeks ago and should hardly matter, I couldn't just leave it, because it was misleading.

 

All in all, it doesn't matter much to me what happens from here on out although i have to thank you for being willing to try on your part. I intend to participate less in discussions anyhow. Since I tend to be long-winded and opinionated, it's prolly time I spared everyone that >_<. The less words spoken, the less chances of being misunderstood, right?

 

To steer this back to Hanyu before I take my leave, hmm...wow...I  have absolutely nothing to say about him. That's gotta be a first. Funny it's also one of the last. Lol!

 

Well, see y'all around!

 

 

[BWOZWaltz]

6 hours ago, kaeryth said:

 

 

6 hours ago, kaerb said:

I get so emotional whenever I hear someone like Shuzo-san talk about Yuzu. Truly, I'm glad there's someone in the media who really just gets it (as a former sportsman). You can feel his sincere and genuine respect for Yuzu so clearly in the way he talks, you can tell Shuzo himself is someone who thinks and sees very deeply into Yuzu, who really takes the time to consider things from Yuzu's perspective. I'm really touched he was so candid about his impressions, as much as it breaks my heart to hear him echo the thought that Yuzu must have been hurt deeply at various points ;;; The purest hypeman, deserving of an OGM being placed around his neck in thanks   

 

Shuzo has been always respectful towards Yuzu right from the start since he first interviewed 16yr old Yuzu. In an interview somewhere, Yuzu said that Shuzo never treated him like a "kid" and spoke to him in respectful manner like talking to an adult. Shuzo clearly saw Yuzu as an athlete with immense talent even at the tender age and that is also a sign of Shuzo's sportsmanship - respect toward fellow athletes. To be at the top of any sport, it requires certain sacrifices, hardworking, and most of all, strong sense of self belief has to be there.  Yuzu has many qualities that can take various effect on people. I love watching Shuzo's genuine appreciation for Yuzu  as an athlete and really appreciate his genuine words about Yuzu being hurt with the various issues in the past. 

 

4 hours ago, Xen said:

I do wonder what Yuzu's real ceiling is in terms of abilities. 

Think about all the limitations already placed on him physically/mentally/emotionally and just life experiences in general. Asthma, more injuries perhaps than normal, Tohoku earthquake delaying his training....and yet even despite these issues, look at what he has achieved artistically and athletically. 

 

2 hours ago, micaelis said:

Yuzuru hasn't achieved what he has despite those issues.  He's achieved what he has because of those.  They're the challenges life set before him and he worked hard at overcoming those issues and in working harder overcoming those he also was enabled to work harder overcoming the challenges he faced in becoming the skater he wanted to be.  Those challenges were the dress rehearsals for the challenges he's faced in skating.  If Yuzu hadn't had those challenges life put before him I don't think he would have achieved what he has as a skater.  

 

I also believe those challenges defined Yuzu what he is today.  His mental strength was backed up by his belief in himself and his kuyashii spirit gave him the push every time a "wall" appeared in front of him. He is a self confessed "負けず嫌い" (someone who hates losing). He doesn't like losing to anybody especially to himself. The day he stop improving is when his kuyashii spirit had left him. I've got a feeling that the day may never come... 

[rockstaryuzu]

3 hours ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

The less words spoken, the less chances of being misunderstood, right?

This is very true.