General Yuzuru Chat

[TallyT]

4 hours ago, kelly said:

Fear not, ACI is the time for first pancakes 

 

And the first competition he gets announced - in front of his competition and the fans - as two time Olympics champion.  That will be a moment and a half....

[KatjaThera]

I'm not sure how the topic ended up as a discussion of which titles matter more and comparing skaters based on that... I'm pretty sure very few people would argue that Yuzu is the most successful skater of this generation. And even Javi has said that a perfectly clean Yuzu cannot be defeated at this point in time, and he himself surely can't. However, he also knew that if Yuzu wasn't perfect, which was entirely likely, given his difficult content, if he himself did his best, there was a chance to win ahead of him. Which he did, most times the opportunity came. I'm also sure Yuzu would be the last to belittle those victories, because, at the end of the day, the gold medal goes to whoever achieved the highest scores over the SP and FP. Not the one who is known to be the better skater or whatever.

 

Aside from that, though, as we discussed earlier, Javi and Yuzu were likely essential to each other's success. Yuzu went to Toronto because he needed a good image of successful quads to land his and I don't know if there was anyone with a better 4S at that time. Would he have stabilized it even without Javi? Possibly, but much, much slower. I believe one of the options he was given was actually the place Patrick trained in? Does anyone think Patrick would have let Yuzu 'steal' any technique from him? He'd probably make sure they'd never share the ice and Yuzu would still have to manage on his own. And of course, then there's Brian insistence on skating skills, without which who knows if Yuzu would have ever reached the PCS scores he gets now.

 

So, personally, rather than going 'that skater is better, no that skater is better, but that skater has consecutive worlds, but that skater has oly golds etc.etc.', I prefer saying that Yuzu and Javi, together with their TCC team of coaches and choreographers, have dominated a full Olympic cycle - and then some - with 4 GPF Golds, 2 GPF Silvers, 4 Worlds Golds, 2 Worlds Silvers, 1 Worlds Bronze, 6 European Golds, 2 4CC Silvers, 2 Olympic Golds, 1 Olympic Bronze and a total of 12 National Titles. (Though to be fair, a few of Javi 's were before he went to Brian) And I might have forgotten some. But those, IMO, are all titles they each played a role in, some bigger, some smaller, but IMO, all were essential to obtaining them.

 

As for Beijing, Yuzu knows better than to hunger for Gold there. Age has little to do with it, the problem is his injuries and whether they affect him long term or not. (Actually there is an interview from 2012 where Yuzu said he has had an avulsion fracture on his ankle since he was young, but he's been taking care of it. However, since then he's sprained and tortured that ankle lots of times, not to mention the knees... He may be young, but multiple injuries in the same places are unlikely not to have long term effects.) He gunned for Pyeongchang because he had unfinished business since Sochi, and took tremendous risks for it. There's little point in doing the same for Beijing. He's paid his dues - or what he felt were his dues - and now is just going to take it one step at a time, which makes the most sense. Achieving the 4A is possibly the last great risk he'll take in his FS career. Everything else will come on a day by day, season by season basis. If he still feels good and competitive, he'll continue. If not, not. And IMO, that's the best attitude to have, much better than 'he should go to Beijing and truly make history'.

[vanadiezz]

He is "only" being introduced as "Two time Olympic champion" during ice shows now, so it is not like he needs another title. 

But he can always try to get gold at Skate Canada and 4CC to round up those silvers nicely. 

 

[monchan]

1 hour ago, quadaxelwin said:

He won Nationals 4 times so far, and with only Shoma as his rival, I think a few more national Golds will be fairly easy for him to get than Worlds and GPF medals. (Not underestimating Shoma, just stating the facts). 

 

How I see Yuzu, he doesn't seem to hunger for the 2022 Beijing Olympic Gold as much as he hungered for PC OGM. He never speaks about it openly, and I don't think he has secretly set his mind on it just yet.

 

Yuzu probably really wants Worlds or GPF or even 4CC Gold though, because they have less pressure to get and also, he can only dedicate a few years instead of another whole olympic cycle. 

Nats title is always piece of cake for yuzu even when he didnt do well so its not necessarily important for his competitive spirit. Its important for him as a Japanese thou, considering his love for his country and after all, normal Jpn might not know wth is grand prix or 4cc. 

 

Ofc as pro athletes, worlds, 4cc, gpf are where to get true recognition in the field and he has to pay good effort to get result. Worlds and oly are important to him both as an athlete and a Jpn. 

 

I dont care 4cc anymore at this point, oly is far off, and nats is given (i dont want to imagine how kuyashii he is if lost in Nats, like super pissed? There goes his domestic reputation, which is kinda a shame for a jpn. Losing is unlikely thou). I just keep my sole focus on worlds and gpf. 

[Anki]

1 hour ago, monchan said:

Its not only a history thing. Worlds is supposed to be (2nd) most imporant comp becuz most skaters around the world are given a chance to attend and supposed to do their best in a common ground. And they dont skate for themselves but represent their countries. Just imagine the scale, the pressure and responsibility! Like u cant say Oly is not as important as Gpf cuz its a one time event?

Honestly cuz its one time event, the pressure even builds up bigger, u have no chance to recover or to say smt like 'i do better next comp' like gp. 

 

I'm sure Yuzu consider Worlds over Gpf too, just like any athlete. I rmb he said smt along the line, Nats, Worlds, and Oly are most important events to him. 

 

Like I can understand Olympic being more important because it only occurs every 4 years (anything that is rarer is more valuable) and is watched by the whole world and not just skating fans. The stake of the nation's pride is much more higher than any other events. There are country's officials whose job depends on medal count !

 

Whereas the regularity of Worlds and GPF is the same (if you miss one year, can always try next year), the audience is the same, skaters are representing their country in both, so the only reason I can see one being regarded as much more important than the other is just because of historical prestige reasons.  Just saying because when people compare skaters achievement, GPF is never really considered despite the grueling process required to actually win this, so its kinda disheartening for the skater..

 

 

 

 

[quadaxelwin]

8 minutes ago, KatjaThera said:

I'm not sure how the topic ended up as a discussion of which titles matter more and comparing skaters based on that... I'm pretty sure very few people would argue that Yuzu is the most successful skater of this generation. And even Javi has said that a perfectly clean Yuzu cannot be defeated at this point in time, and he himself surely can't. However, he also knew that if Yuzu wasn't perfect, which was entirely likely, given his difficult content, if he himself did his best, there was a chance to win ahead of him. Which he did, most times the opportunity came. I'm also sure Yuzu would be the last to belittle those victories, because, at the end of the day, the gold medal goes to whoever achieved the highest scores over the SP and FP. Not the one who is known to be the better skater or whatever.

 

Aside from that, though, as we discussed earlier, Javi and Yuzu were likely essential to each other's success. Yuzu went to Toronto because he needed a good image of successful quads to land his and I don't know if there was anyone with a better 4S at that time. Would he have stabilized it even without Javi? Possibly, but much, much slower. I believe one of the options he was given was actually the place Patrick trained in? Does anyone think Patrick would have let Yuzu 'steal' any technique from him? He'd probably make sure they'd never share the ice and Yuzu would still have to manage on his own. And of course, then there's Brian insistence on skating skills, without which who knows if Yuzu would have ever reached the PCS scores he gets now.

 

So, personally, rather than going 'that skater is better, no that skater is better, but that skater has consecutive worlds, but that skater has oly golds etc.etc.', I prefer saying that Yuzu and Javi, together with their TCC team of coaches and choreographers, have dominated a full Olympic cycle - and then some - with 4 GPF Golds, 2 GPF Silvers, 4 Worlds Golds, 2 Worlds Silvers, 1 Worlds Bronze, 6 European Golds, 2 4CC Silvers, 2 Olympic Golds, 1 Olympic Bronze and a total of 12 National Titles. (Though to be fair, a few of Javi 's were before he went to Brian) And I might have forgotten some. But those, IMO, are all titles they each played a role in, some bigger, some smaller, but IMO, all were essential to obtaining them.

 

As for Beijing, Yuzu knows better than to hunger for Gold there. Age has little to do with it, the problem is his injuries and whether they affect him long term or not. (Actually there is an interview from 2012 where Yuzu said he has had an avulsion fracture on his ankle since he was young, but he's been taking care of it. However, since then he's sprained and tortured that ankle lots of times, not to mention the knees... He may be young, but multiple injuries in the same places are unlikely not to have long term effects.) He gunned for Pyeongchang because he had unfinished business since Sochi, and took tremendous risks for it. There's little point in doing the same for Beijing. He's paid his dues - or what he felt were his dues - and now is just going to take it one step at a time, which makes the most sense. Achieving the 4A is possibly the last great risk he'll take in his FS career. Everything else will come on a day by day, season by season basis. If he still feels good and competitive, he'll continue. If not, not. And IMO, that's the best attitude to have, much better than 'he should go to Beijing and truly make history'.

 

 

I felt sad reading the last part. The thought of Yuzu having to live with a sore ankle worries me. I'm sure he wants to do alot of ice shows after he retires, so maybe he might retire around 25~26, so he can skill skate afterwards.

 

I also think Yuzu will find it hard to resist the pressure from Japan to go to Beijing and win that 3rd title. He deserves to be completely free from it after all he's givin back to his country, but people get greedy for more. 

 

Yuzu can always go the artistic route where he skates just the team event in Beijing, and not go for gold in the singles like Plushenko. He has 2 OGMs. He doesn't really need a 3rd one to prove himself *although if he did win 3 OGMs, he would be invincible career wise. 

[vanadiezz]

Aren't there several potential senior male skater for Japan? Even if they are still in junior right now, the notion that Japan will still need to depend on Yuzu and Shoma for 2022 is rather bizarre. 

[KatjaThera]

1 minute ago, quadaxelwin said:

 

 

I felt sad reading the last part. The thought of Yuzu having to live with a sore ankle worries me. I'm sure he wants to do alot of ice shows after he retires, so maybe he might retire around 25~26, so he can skill skate afterwards.

 

I also think Yuzu will find it hard to resist the pressure from Japan to go to Beijing and win that 3rd title. He deserves to be completely free from it after all he's givin back to his country, but people get greedy for more. 

 

Yuzu can always go the artistic route where he skates just the team event in Beijing, and not go for gold in the singles like Plushenko. He has 2 OGMs. He doesn't really need a 3rd one to prove himself *although if he did win 3 OGMs, he would be invincible career wise. 

Maybe I'm overestimating him, but personally, I don't think Japan pressure can touch him anymore, unless he wants it to. It was never pressure from Japan that pushed him forward, it was the pressure he himself put on himself. If he decides not to go to Beijing, he won't, and I don't think there's anything anyone in Japan can do about it. Since he feels he's fully redeemed himself in Pyeongchang - or it seems he does - I don't think he'll let any pressure like that get to him anymore. He'll just do his own stuff and ignore anything else. Or at least, that's what I hope for him. He'll always be grateful to his country and do his best to help them, but I think he's done skating for others.

 

But I also believe he can do a lot still for FS, in Japan and Worldwide, after retiring, beyond ice shows... but that's a different topic.

[quadaxelwin]

2 minutes ago, vanadiezz said:

Aren't there several potential senior male skater for Japan? Even if they are still in junior right now, the notion that Japan will still need to depend on Yuzu and Shoma for 2022 is rather bizarre. 

It's not just the possibility to get OGM at 2022 Olympics for Japan Fed. 

 

Yuzu is an ICON, the sort of figure skating icon that comes once every fifty years or so. I think Japanese Media and Fed may be obsessed with "The living legend in the making" breaking historical records. And I don't blame them. The hype around Hanyu sells tickets, products, boosts their national image etc. 

 

They'd want Yuzu to go for that 3rd OGM simply because it would make international headlines, produce massive hysteria and hype in the media, produce free publicity for skating.

 

The last time we saw someone going for 3rd OGM was like nearly a century ago. It would be witnessing history, and we would be the lucky generation that could witness it ourselves. 

 

 

[axelnojutsu]

2 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

It's not just the possibility to get OGM at 2022 Olympics for Japan Fed. 

 

Yuzu is an ICON, the sort of figure skating icon that comes once every fifty years or so. I think Japanese Media and Fed may be obsessed with "The living legend in the making" breaking historical records. And I don't blame them. The hype around Hanyu sells tickets, products, boosts their national image etc. 

 

They'd want Yuzu to go for that 3rd OGM simply because it would make international headlines, produce massive hysteria and hype in the media, produce free publicity for skating.

 

The last time we saw someone going for 3rd OGM was like nearly a century ago. It would be witnessing history, and we would be the lucky generation that could witness it ourselves. 

 

 

 

We already witnessed Yuzu making history multiple times and we are already the lucky generation that got to witness him do it

 

As much as I would obviously be happy if he got a 3rd OGM this rubs me the wrong way because it's always more more more and it discredits what he has achieved as not enough

[vanadiezz]

4 minutes ago, quadaxelwin said:

It's not just the possibility to get OGM at 2022 Olympics for Japan Fed. 

 

Yuzu is an ICON, the sort of figure skating icon that comes once every fifty years or so. I think Japanese Media and Fed may be obsessed with "The living legend in the making" breaking historical records. And I don't blame them. The hype around Hanyu sells tickets, products, boosts their national image etc. 

 

They'd want Yuzu to go for that 3rd OGM simply because it would make international headlines, produce massive hysteria and hype in the media, produce free publicity for skating.

 

The last time we saw someone going for 3rd OGM was like nearly a century ago. It would be witnessing history, and we would be the lucky generation that could witness it ourselves. 

 

I think I'll just take it one year at a time from this time onward. If he is healthy and want to compete at the Olympics by 2021 then I will find a way to go to Beijing. 

[monchan]

3 hours ago, Anki said:

 

Like I can understand Olympic being more important because it only occurs every 4 years (anything that is rarer is more valuable) and is watched by the whole world and not just skating fans. The stake of the nation's pride is much more higher than any other events. There are country's officials whose job depends on medal count !

 

Whereas the regularity of Worlds and GPF is the same (if you miss one year, can always try next year), the audience is the same, skaters are representing their country in both, so the only reason I can see one being regarded as much more important than the other is just because of historical prestige reasons.  Just saying because when people compare skaters achievement, GPF is never really considered despite the grueling process required to actually win this.

 

 

 

 

Skaters dont 'represent' their country in gpf, just themselves. In worlds, you and your teammates compete to get slots for your country in next Worlds, next olys, and prob gps next year. It helps your country's skating field in the most direct way. Being chosen to represent your country in Worlds is smt to be proud of.

 

Gpf is a harsh competition, but its more like battle of the experts, cuz only the high lvl ones get gp, dont even mention gpf. Audience is not the same, countries w underdeveloped skating field might not care gpf cuz their skaters dont even get a gp, but if their skater suddenly got good result in Worlds it might be a new page for the sport in the country. Common ppl dont know what is a gp, but everyone knows worlds champ and oly are big deal even if they dont watch it or know its historic records

 

Over the years gpf is becoming no less competitive than Worlds. But well worlds and oly are stil most important comps, u cant argue their reputation. 

[quadaxelwin]

2 minutes ago, axelnojutsu said:

We already witnessed Yuzu making history multiple times and we are already the lucky generation that got to witness him do it

 

As much as I would obviously be happy if he got a 3rd OGM this rubs me the wrong way because it's always more more more and it discredits what he has achieved as not enough

I agree with you. But what I'm trying to say is that people will always want more records, titles, legends, bigger and grander. Especially the media.

 

The Japanese media asked Hanyu so many times straight after he won PC olys about Beijing. They are still desperate for another olympic cycle even after a 2nd OGM 

[kaeryth]

I want Yuzu to win 4CC gold because I don't want Evan Lysacek to be the only male skater under the IJS to win gold on all major competitions.

[Sammie]

9 minutes ago, kaeryth said:

I want Yuzu to win 4CC gold because I don't want Evan Lysacek to be the only male skater under the IJS to win gold on all major competitions.

Same.