General Yuzuru Chat

[yuzuangel]

7 hours ago, Fresca said:

 

OMG. It's so beautiful. He's going to win. I just know it. Chopin was made for him. This is the essence of Yuzu's skating. Fierceness in delicacy. Yuzu as a force of nature. The most natural expression of his skating. If he uses it, on the biggest stage, he's going to put on display what his skating truly is. Oh Yuzu...

It is isn't it? He's not gonna have any problems with SP this season I know it. He NAILED this performance with 100% confidence and on a small rink with bad ice. It fits him like a glove. This is the most beautiful SP he's ever done, maybe the most beautiful figure skating program ever. The world is in for a treat to see Yuzuru Hanyu skate.

[ShiroKJ]

2 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Overall, I'd just like to say that for me, it's perfectly fine to be disappointed, unhappy and yes, criticize him for his choices because being a fan doesn't mean being a mindless uber that condones everything their idol does. This choice is going to be controversial, and possibly more so in regards to the FS, so I think it's good to let people process things on their own time and in their own way. 

 

 This is a sport after all and I'd like to think that most of his fans can judge things with merit and not by blind love. 

[robin]

Hey guys, another heads up. We have updated the forum guidelines so make sure to have a look at them!

 

[Anony]

Hm... I just watched his SP not the clean one, the 2Lo version, because that one was deleted before I could get hold of it And it feels unfinished. Like timing on the 3A and 4T-3T is lovely, especially the 4T-3T . But the StSq while lovely isn't up to par in quality with what I personally associate with a Yuzuru step sequence and the spins aren't quite there yet as far as timing goes. But this is just May, Yuzuru has plenty of time to work on it, not to mention the rink here is tiny compared to a standard competition rink.

 

All that aside, I'm excited now. It's very different in terms of "feel" compared to his previous two Ballade no.1s. This one is much more intimidating I think, colder, but in a good way. It already left a strong impression in me, so I imagine it will be mind blowing after a couple of months' work.

[Dori6886]

8 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Massive if. 

And I feel like, while I understand enthusiasm, some here are severely underestimating not just the other skaters but the judges ability to not give him those marks, even if he's perfect with what he presents (and this is the crux of it for me, what he presents). We will see. Personally I am going to remain cautious about whether his strategy is going to pay off or not. I see plenty of possible problems and quite a few positives. 

 

Overall, I'd just like to say that for me, it's perfectly fine to be disappointed, unhappy and yes, criticize him for his choices because being a fan doesn't mean being a mindless uber that condones everything their idol does. This choice is going to be controversial, and possibly more so when the FS becomes known, so I think it's good to let people process things on their own time and in their own way. 

Very massive if unfortunately. Many commentators from different countries were sure he will get it for his free in Helsinki and we know what happend. But if he somehow manage to skate it clean a few times before Olympics then there's chance he will come close it during Olympics if he'll skate it clean again (I skipped other factors like composition of judging panel, skating order etc)

[yana]

3 minutes ago, Anony said:

Hm... I just watched his SP not the clean one, the 2Lo version, because that one was deleted before I could get hold of it And it feels unfinished. Like timing on the 3A and 4T-3T is lovely, especially the 4T-3T . But the StSq while lovely isn't up to par in quality with what I personally associate with a Yuzuru step sequence and the spins aren't quite there yet as far as timing goes. But this is just May, Yuzuru has plenty of time to work on it, not to mention the rink here is tiny compared to a standard competition rink.

 

All that aside, I'm excited now. It's very different in terms of "feel" compared to his previous two Ballade no.1s. This one is much more intimidating I think, colder, but in a good way. It already left a strong impression in me, so I imagine it will be mind blowing after a couple of months' work.

 

This for the clean one today

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2xIvX5CEMOAUzQzd2RLX0Fxcms/view

[xeyra]

He's trying to go for the Russian consistency rule of thinking and see if it rewards him the same way it has Evgenia. But the ladies aren't particularly pushing their sport at the senior level quite yet, whereas in the men it's a completely different story. So, while I have made my peace with Chopin 3.0 (I kinda am really liking it, rough edges or not) and I've found it sufficiently different from the well known record Chopin 2.0, it's actually quite a risky move. It's also a challenge, like someone pointed before. We shall see. And we shall see if he'll risk more with it or if he'll count on just going clean in the SP to have more freedom in a FS. 

[Anony]

4 minutes ago, yana said:

 

This for the clean one today

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2xIvX5CEMOAUzQzd2RLX0Fxcms/view

!!!!!!!!

 

But seriously thank you

[Yatagarasu]

1 minute ago, Dori6886 said:

Very massive if unfortunately. Many commentators from different countries were sure he will get it for his free in Helsinki and we know what happend. But if he somehow manage to skate it clean a few times before Olympics then there's chance he will come close it during Olympics if he'll skate it clean again (I skipped other factors like composition of judging panel, skating order etc)

 

Yes, absolutely and I think this is part of his strategy and one of the possible positives I've mentioned above. 

 

So, he pretty much has to use the 4Lz here, instead of the 4Lo. With the three-peat, the upgrade of tech is a must. He is actually downgrading his combination, which is another negative in terms of perception (and BV, compared to others who still have this option left open, with higher value combos) so the 4Lz is a must and I do believe this is his plan. By keeping the Chopin (which I am sure Jeff will polish to its absolute maximum and Yuzuru as a skater is better now than he was in 2015/16) he then has a high chance of emulating what the Russians, namely Eteri-Medvedeva, are using for their tactic. In this sense, using the 4T-3T becomes logical; it provides for the stability of a risky second-half combination. 

Even without the highest tech, deliver consistently clean programs and ultimately, the scores will max out, or be close to it. Now it's not quite the same in the ladies division as it is in the men's; so this is where the upgrade to the 4Lz becomes an absolute must. 
Of course, adding the 4Lz in this equation already threatens to make it unstable; he has to be clean-ish from the start to make this plan work. Personally I think the 4Lz will actually integrate better than the 4Lo but that's just my guess. Say I am right, then yes, steadily towards PC, there should be high scoring, that hopefully maxes out during the Olympics.

 

The negative of this tactic is precisely the aforementioned slightly different situation in the men's field. There are several skaters who have higher tech, who can still move that up by shifting their combinations to the second half as well, and then, to top that off, there is always the possibility someone like Shoma is going to have similar consistency too next season. There was already talk last season of his time being over, so that might increase and it might affect the judges.

 

This is why I say caution is required. Lots of things are in play. I do think Yuzuru is going for the consistency strategy (this works very, very well with the things he spoke of last season, the 'highest average'), that should ideally raise the scores from already high to highest but it is not without its own risks.

[ruruzest]

14 hours ago, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

Sorry but this is gonna get long. 

 

I'm sure that's just your disappointment speaking and not really you. Because I don't think anyone who has seen what he's done all these years, no matter how high the obstacles, and had grown to respect and admire him for what he's accomplished despite them, could ever label him as "lazy", and actually mean it, no matter what most might think of as seemingly dubious decisions he might make later on.

 

Because that kind of thing speaks of a person's core character and it's not something they can change. And Yuzuru Hanyu's proven time and time again that his core character is anything but lazy. I was born with a lazy and relaxed nature that I have to fight against all the time to get anything done at all (because I'm also cursed with a conscience) and  I can only wish I could be a fraction as hardworking and as disciplined as he is. I don't think he needs to, or can, even, prove anymore that this is the only way he can ever be.

 

So I'm sure after you've allowed yourself to get over this disappointment of potentially not being able to see a brand new program in the Olympic season (or having to see the same one a third time), you'll come around to the notion that if someone can make what most might consider as an overdone program into something else bigger and better entirely, and make everyone see things his way, that someone would be him. And you'll be glad for the fact that something within you saw him worth rooting for in the first place.

 

If this is indeed the route he chooses to take, this bigger and better thing, when it happens, I am sure we'll all end up watching over and over again no matter our doubts now, wondering why we ever thought what he delivered before, while amazing in and of itself,  was even close to being the best, when in hindsight, it's merely a work-in-progress.

 

And this won't be something we will ever be able to see, should he go down a different route.

 

If he decides to stick to this route, it means there's still bigger potential in it. And it'd be one that only Yuzuru Hanyu can bring to reality. Because bringing about end results that go beyond anybody's wildest dreams? Well, it's only something he's done a few times before. No biggie. Just another day of work for him that leaves the rest of the world struggling to pick up our jaws from the ground and him simply dusting off his hands, smile that wily smile of his (some might argue that it's sweet, and for all intents and purposes, it does appear to be as such but I know foxishness when I see it--no matter how subtle--which is also something I like about him) and move on to tackle the next big thing on his list.

 

I'd call it the curse of geniuses who can see further possibilities where others can only see limits but I genuinely think this guy basically lives to see the stupefied expressions on people's faces once he's proven them wrong, and gets his kicks and motivation from knowing that only he can put them there.

 

Because no matter how many times he's made people question his decisions in the past,  it's always been him at the end of the day who gets to say, "Toldja so."  No matter how many times these decisions inevitably lead people to question his character, he's the one whom no one can blame for saying, when all is said and done, "Good thing I had faith in myself even when no one else did" (but doesn't and would instead credit all the faith that led to his success to others--and genuinely thinks so, too).

 

It's a pattern I have no doubt he's very used to already but it's always nice to know that people have your back still. The lows can be soul-crushing, yes, but the highs at the end that make everything worth it? Those can only come after the lows. So stick around, okay? Because so long as the guy remains healthy, I'm sure he'll make it worth our while for it in the end.

 

P/s: Yes, please, a new variation of the costume would be very nice, if he's indeed doing this. Though it was also very nice seeing this one again. Wouldn't mind seeing the first iteration of it again, too.

I totally agree with you . Yuzuru is anything but"lazy" ! He's the harshest critic of himself, always want to push the sport forward , overcome his asthmatic problem to improve his stamina. We all agree that he's a very smart young man . I'm sure he has his own reason to pick Chopin. We just have to wait for more info. 

[b138oo]

11 minutes ago, xeyra said:

He's trying to go for the Russian consistency rule of thinking and see if it rewards him the same way it has Evgenia. But the ladies aren't particularly pushing their sport at the senior level quite yet, whereas in the men it's a completely different story. So, while I have made my peace with Chopin 3.0 (I kinda am really liking it, rough edges or not) and I've found it sufficiently different from the well known record Chopin 2.0, it's actually quite a risky move. It's also a challenge, like someone pointed before. We shall see. And we shall see if he'll risk more with it or if he'll count on just going clean in the SP to have more freedom in a FS. 

If Yuzu could have Evgenia's consistency, even with the 2015-2016 330 mega score layout, I bet all my money for Yuzu at Pyeongchang. Call me overconfident or delusional fanyu whatever, I doubt any of the men, even Chen with 6 quads, could beat a 4 quads program from Yuzu with Evgenia's style of consistency. He basically becomes unbeatable with consistency, especially with a 4Lo 3A 4T3T sp and 5 quads FP. 

[Dori6886]

4 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Yes, absolutely and I think this is part of his strategy and one of the possible positives I've mentioned above. 

 

So, he pretty much has to use the 4Lz here, instead of the 4Lo. With the three-peat, the upgrade of tech is a must. He is actually downgrading his combination, which is another negative in terms of perception (and BV, compared to others who still have this option left open, with higher value combos) so the 4Lz is a must and I do believe this is his plan. By keeping the Chopin (which I am sure Jeff will polish to its absolute maximum and Yuzuru as a skater is better now than he was in 2015/16) he then has a high chance of emulating what the Russians, namely Eteri-Medvedeva, are using for their tactic. In this sense, using the 4T-3T becomes logical; it provides for the stability of a risky second-half combination. 

Even without the highest tech, deliver consistently clean programs and ultimately, the scores will max out, or be close to it. Now it's not quite the same in the ladies division as it is in the men's; so this is where the upgrade to the 4Lz becomes an absolute must. 
Of course, adding the 4Lz in this equation already threatens to make it unstable; he has to be clean-ish from the start to make this plan work. Personally I think the 4Lz will actually integrate better than the 4Lo but that's just my guess. Say I am right, then yes, steadily towards PC, there should be high scoring, that hopefully maxes out during the Olympics.

 

The negative of this tactic is precisely the aforementioned slightly different situation in the men's field. There are several skaters who have higher tech, who can still move that up by shifting their combinations to the second half as well, and then, to top that off, there is always the possibility someone like Shoma is going to have similar consistency too next season. There was already talk last season of his time being over, so that might increase and it might affect the judges.

 

This is why I say caution is required. Lots of things are in play. I do think Yuzuru is going for the consistency strategy (this works very, very well with the things he spoke of last season, the 'highest average'), that should ideally raise the scores from already high to highest but it is not without its own risks.

I agree with you except I don't think he's planning to add 4Lz in short (free is likely if he will stabilize it in practise). I actually think that repeating Ballade no 1 is much more risky than most people think both PR and score wise, so I hope (probably we should start praying already) he will gain Medvedeva like consistency. 

[Katt]

Well, its too much to ask Yuzu to have Evgenia's consitency, since he's doing a very hard layout and programs. Its the same with other top men. Its impossible to go clean all the time with 4-5 quad layout, and some of them even do new jumps. Meanwhile, the ladies pretty much do the same jumps for many years since they're still juniors. You can see the top ladies often more consistent than the top men. Thats why Yuzuru performances at NHK/GPF2015 are so special because you rarely see 4 clean programs back to back in the men's field. 

 

As for the Ballade 3.0, I can see both advantages and disadvantages right now. But its too early to predict anything. I will wait till GP events. Just a food for though, since Yuzu won WC, most people agree that his 4lo and 4quad layout are right move. But if he made mistake and Javi won, people will be on Javi's side. In the end, its the results that decide the strategy is right or wrong

[GreatLakesGal]

10 hours ago, sublimeskating said:

so is it any wonder that he now chooses the safe route of repeating established (world record) programs?  if he skates them clean and he improves on the performance (because he is an even better skater now than he was before), the judges have no excuse not to give him those scores.  it's a logical decision especially since this is olympics

 

But is choosing to go "the safe route" really the wisest choice to make when you already have one Olympic Gold Medal and are the current World Champion?  When someone says "he played it safe," it is usually not seen as a compliment. Many believe Kwan "played it safe" in 1998 and that's why Lipinski ended up with the OGM.

 

And is it the smart choice to make when you're known to be fabulously wealthy and have unlimited resources at your disposal to help you create exciting new Olympic-worthy programs? I do think more is expected of Yuzu than is expected of his fellow competitors.

 

As for how the judges will score Chopin 3.0, I doubt they will be influenced by scores he received for that program in the past. Within reason, judges can score skaters however they like. I just hope they won't be negatively influenced by someone of Yuzu's stature recycling a program for the third time.

[Yatagarasu]

4 minutes ago, Dori6886 said:

I agree with you except I don't think he's planning to add 4Lz in short (free is likely if he will stabilize it in practise). I actually think that repeating Ballade no 1 is much more risky than most people think both PR and score wise, so I hope (probably we should start praying already) he will gain Medvedeva like consistency. 

 

Well, this also has it's good and bad sides!
Keeping the 4Lo will definitely be far less risky, and coupled with the 4T-3T, he will far more easily reach Medvedeva's consistency levels, at which point he should start benefiting from the same things as she is and pretty quickly. 

But there's the bad side. One, the baggage of name Yuzuru Hanyu. So now that he's using this tactic of repeating the short for the third time, and in the name of tech, then he has to actually upgrade that tech. Or the overall impression may be very negative. Someone previously said, ISU is signaling jumps are everything. If we take this to be true and currently there's definitely a connection IMO, then how is he playing by their rules, if he keeps 4Lo / 3A, 4T-3T? And again, this coupled with his name and everything that has happened. It might give the opposite effect. Then, two, you are still banking on none of the others either moving theirs to the second half or being consistent as well. What if they do, especially considering the rising reputation of Uno, and yes, even Chen in his SP (remember his PCS went to 44 in the SP this season). There is no guarantee the judges will score Chopin the same as they used to, considering the current context.

 

Complicated game is complicated. Could go either way. So my current line of thought is that considering the above, he's more likely to use the 4Lz (plus didn't he say his current challenge is to upgrade the layout), if it is at a certain level of stability, prior to the season because the overall risk with it becomes less than without it. 

 

Chopin 3.0 with the 4Lz is potentially a very sound strategy, once it's fully realized, and then the three-peat may not matter at all.