General Yuzuru Chat

[Murieleirum]

I'm starting to feel like a lurker, following the discussions here but arriving too late so losing motivation to write my two cents about it  

 

I did send those banana sculptures to my whatsapp contacts tho.  

[ruruzest]

7 hours ago, robin said:

 

Projecting your own experience with Japanese people on Yuzu, no matter how representative your experience is, might not be accurate. Yes, Yuzu does not express his opinions too directly and has a very intelligent and diplomatic way with words, but when it comes to expressing his emotions he is very unrestrained. 

I believe in one of the interview Yuzu said that what he loves about skating is that on ice he can use his movements to truthfully express his emotions and ideas which he has to restrain or can’t freely express in his daily life. He’s a very passionate young man and very confident, not afraid to project his ideas. His showmanship is very appreciated and appealing.  He is THE rockstar who can move audience like no one, making them cry, laugh, quiet, applause, travel thousands of miles to see him, abandon traditional holidays to watch him ,  wait, that’s me , ....( a very aging lady told me proudly that Yuzu bankrupts her for following him around the world...) ... Now, to me , he’s is THE ROCKSTAR 

[BWOZWaltz]

 

4 hours ago, Pamigena said:

 

http://doramaticbites.tumblr.com/post/171551859613/to-the-japanese-hanyu-may-not-be-gnc

 

4 hours ago, WinForPooh said:

 

Yes, it didn't take into account contemporary views, I remember that. For better or for worse, modern art forms (or forms of entertainment) are very different from historical ones.

 

But it was still interesting, a different perspective of what androgyny in performance might mean in different contexts. It did make me think of how in Europe, too, women weren't encouraged to act and historically all the glorious female roles were played by men - and that hasn't drastically impacted how femininity in performance is viewed now. So it would be interesting to read more.

 

(Was the op not Japanese? I don't think I checked!)

 

 

That's the one.  

 

Not sure if you guys have already settled with this topic and moved on to something else as I haven't finished reading the rest of the pages (I'm still at 3244...5 more pages to go at this point). But I may be of some assistance for providing a Japanese person's view on this as I am Japanese born & raised there until I finally left home to live overseas.

 

The tumbler author made one major mistake at the very beginning of the article. It is to do with the understanding of the word "wa" (和). In Chinese character (probably both for Japanese & Chinese), the use of this word ”wa” means "peace or harmony". That is correct. However, for Japanese, "wa" also means Japanese way, flavour, style or whatever the subject you're going to associate the "wa" word with (like food, house, clothes etc) NB means something Japanesy. For example, Japanese kimono, we call it "wa fuku" (Japanese clothing). So when Yuzu said he is pursing "wa" programs, he didn't mean "harmonious" or "peaceful" program but he meant "Japanese" style/feel/taste program. When he listened to Seimei OST, he liked the sound of "fue"  and "wa-daiko" (Japanese flute & Japanese drum) and that got him thinking about a concept of Japanese program. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMININITY. 

 

I think many of fanyus in Japan (I'm not necessary included in them as I am out of the country for too long), they don't think Yuzu as a girl or too feminine. They (and I) think he is a boy when he's off ice but when he's on ice and I mean when he's really "on", he can be definitely "阿修羅" or "鬼" (demon or Asura) for his fierce competitiveness. That is definitely not associated with femininity.

It is interesting that Japanese fanyu sometime calls him "フリルを着た阿修羅”. English equivalent would be like not "Devil wears Prada" but "Devil wears frills". Do you get a picture?

 

I could be wrong but I know from internet that lot of Japanese girls prefer slim or skinny built men with not too much muscles. I for being shojo and shonen manga reader for many years, prefer men to be not so macho when it comes to admire their figure.

 

For many years, when I occasionally watched men's FS (I mostly watched women's), I always felt somewhat uncomfortable with their costumes. I couldn't figure out what it was but when I discovered Yuzu, I think I've found the answer. Yuzu wears costumes with frills and bijou. He looks good in them too. He also skates beautifully as well as wildly (LGC, Hello I Love you, Vertigo, etc).

 

Notte Stellata is a knock out program for me. It is beautiful, elegant, moving and a touch of femininity. I think that perfectly suits him and his slim built with boyish look does help to include that femininity. A beautiful being can be a boy or a girl or both, if you'd prefer:D

So yes femininity in performing art is definitely accepted among Japanese culture especially. As a matter of fact, there is an all-girl theatre company/school called "Takarazuka" where women play role as men. In more traditional performing art like "Noh" or "Kabuki", all-men theatre have to have men play women role. Both are perfectly accepted though latter (traditional ones) are considered more sophisticated or high class (like musical to opera).

 

I can carry on but I'll stop it for now. If anyone is interested a bit more, please let me know.

[Hanmgse]

3 hours ago, VyVy99 said:

Throw back the 1st OGM parade. He really looks like a prince here  I wonder what he'll wear this coming parade. I was fine with this outfit even if it was a bit loose on him (he was smoller back then )

 

This slow motion is killing me !! 

[Hydroblade]

6 minutes ago, BWOZWaltz said:

In more traditional performing art like "Noh" or "Kabuki", all-men theatre have to have men play women role. Both are perfectly accepted though latter (traditional ones) are considered more sophisticated or high class (like musical to opera).

This reminds me that one time he said that he knows he'd be more suited for onnagata roles and he laughed so much at that. 

[kiches]

5 hours ago, eagle said:

Wait, I digress from my original mission.

@kiches, was it you who originally asked about Shae LB's interview on Hope & Legacy?

I still havent found it after searching the whole afternoon, sorry. Maybe I remember wrong and your info more detailed.

 

 

 

Yes, it was me who was wondering about Shae’s interview about H&L. I think I have a copy of the CBC interview with her after Worlds which you mentioned earlier. I’ll have to dig it up and check it out again when I have the time. 

[Lilona]

I'm dying here T___T So cute!

 

14 минут назад, BWOZWaltz сказал:

 

 

 

Not sure if you guys have already settled with this topic and moved on to something else as I haven't finished reading the rest of the pages (I'm still at 3244...5 more pages to go at this point). But I may be of some assistance for providing a Japanese person's view on this as I am Japanese born & raised there until I finally left home to live overseas.

 

The tumbler author made one major mistake at the very beginning of the article. It is to do with the understanding of the word "wa" (和). In Chinese character (probably both for Japanese & Chinese), the use of this word ”wa” means "peace or harmony". That is correct. However, for Japanese, "wa" also means Japanese way, flavour, style or whatever the subject you're going to associate the "wa" word with (like food, house, clothes etc) NB means something Japanesy. For example, Japanese kimono, we call it "wa fuku" (Japanese clothing). So when Yuzu said he is pursing "wa" programs, he didn't mean "harmonious" or "peaceful" program but he meant "Japanese" style/feel/taste program. When he listened to Seimei OST, he liked the sound of "fue"  and "wa-daiko" (Japanese flute & Japanese drum) and that got him thinking about a concept of Japanese program. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMININITY. 

 

I think many of fanyus in Japan (I'm not necessary included in them as I am out of the country for too long), they don't think Yuzu as a girl or too feminine. They (and I) think he is a boy when he's off ice but when he's on ice and I mean when he's really "on", he can be definitely "阿修羅" or "鬼" (demon or Asura) for his fierce competitiveness. That is definitely not associated with femininity.

It is interesting that Japanese fanyu sometime calls him "フリルを着た阿修羅”. English equivalent would be like not "Devil wears Prada" but "Devil wears frills". Do you get a picture?

 

I could be wrong but I know from internet that lot of Japanese girls prefer slim or skinny built men with not too much muscles. I for being shojo and shonen manga reader for many years, prefer men to be not so macho when it comes to admire their figure.

 

For many years, when I occasionally watched men's FS (I mostly watched women's), I always felt somewhat uncomfortable with their costumes. I couldn't figure out what it was but when I discovered Yuzu, I think I've found the answer. Yuzu wears costumes with frills and bijou. He looks good in them too. He also skates beautifully as well as wildly (LGC, Hello I Love you, Vertigo, etc).

 

Notte Stellata is a knock out program for me. It is beautiful, elegant, moving and a touch of femininity. I think that perfectly suits him and his slim built with boyish look does help to include that femininity. A beautiful being can be a boy or a girl or both, if you'd prefer:D

So yes femininity in performing art is definitely accepted among Japanese culture especially. As a matter of fact, there is an all-girl theatre company/school called "Takarazuka" where women play role as men. In more traditional performing art like "Noh" or "Kabuki", all-men theatre have to have men play women role. Both are perfectly accepted though latter (traditional ones) are considered more sophisticated or high class (like musical to opera).

 

I can carry on but I'll stop it for now. If anyone is interested a bit more, please let me know.

Thank you a lot for insight! And yes, I want more please!

[BWOZWaltz]

2 minutes ago, Hydroblade said:

This reminds me that one time he said that he knows he'd be more suited for onnagata roles and he laughed so much at that. 

 

Yes. He could be a perfect 女形 (onnagata but pronounce "oyama"). Yuzu is a perfect "bishonenn" 美少年 (beautiful boy) in Heian era when Abe no Seimei was alive. He's fair skinned and slim with slit-eyes. Beautiful!!

[Xen]

19 minutes ago, BWOZWaltz said:

<whole post>

 

From a chinese perspective, I've barely met any male rinkmates who consider Yuzu "feminine." Usually in Chinese, when we say "xxx is very feminine" (especially in a negative way) it is in reference to attitude, behavior and mannerisms. Very few guys I know of who watch figure skating, would consider Yuzu "feminine" in that way. His competitive attitude, and his mentality are both considered very "masculine."

 

Also, traditionally in Chinese opera, the older ones such as Beijing Opera, only men could act female roles. And being able to take on female roles is considered "professional" and "artistically well-rounded"-non of what happens on stage is carried on to the off-stage persona. In China, there are older forms of opera where all the roles are played by women, and the same would apply to female actors who play male roles on-stage. There is a slight irony in some ways though. Traditionally in China, a gentleman is someone who looks beautiful ( and here beautiful can be a more manly type, but also possibly even delicate and feminine!), but has a very masculine "aura," "attitude" and way of dealing with life. This is especially so from some of the more great dynasties such as the Tang dynasty (which is considered the most culturally important dynasty in China). And Yuzu does tend to embody that. 

 

Yuzu's fondness for plushies is actually not that odd for his generation- working with a bunch of guys born after 1990, did I ever mention how many Totoro plush pillows are in my office? I've had my hello kitty and chopper plushies show up on male co-worker desks before. >_<

 

Speaking of which....how did we get to banana art in less than 8 hours? o_O

 

 

[axelsandwich]

48 minutes ago, BWOZWaltz said:

Spoiler

Not sure if you guys have already settled with this topic and moved on to something else as I haven't finished reading the rest of the pages (I'm still at 3244...5 more pages to go at this point). But I may be of some assistance for providing a Japanese person's view on this as I am Japanese born & raised there until I finally left home to live overseas.

 

The tumbler author made one major mistake at the very beginning of the article. It is to do with the understanding of the word "wa" (和). In Chinese character (probably both for Japanese & Chinese), the use of this word ”wa” means "peace or harmony". That is correct. However, for Japanese, "wa" also means Japanese way, flavour, style or whatever the subject you're going to associate the "wa" word with (like food, house, clothes etc) NB means something Japanesy. For example, Japanese kimono, we call it "wa fuku" (Japanese clothing). So when Yuzu said he is pursing "wa" programs, he didn't mean "harmonious" or "peaceful" program but he meant "Japanese" style/feel/taste program. When he listened to Seimei OST, he liked the sound of "fue"  and "wa-daiko" (Japanese flute & Japanese drum) and that got him thinking about a concept of Japanese program. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMININITY. 

 

I think many of fanyus in Japan (I'm not necessary included in them as I am out of the country for too long), they don't think Yuzu as a girl or too feminine. They (and I) think he is a boy when he's off ice but when he's on ice and I mean when he's really "on", he can be definitely "阿修羅" or "鬼" (demon or Asura) for his fierce competitiveness. That is definitely not associated with femininity.

It is interesting that Japanese fanyu sometime calls him "フリルを着た阿修羅”. English equivalent would be like not "Devil wears Prada" but "Devil wears frills". Do you get a picture?

 

I could be wrong but I know from internet that lot of Japanese girls prefer slim or skinny built men with not too much muscles. I for being shojo and shonen manga reader for many years, prefer men to be not so macho when it comes to admire their figure.

 

For many years, when I occasionally watched men's FS (I mostly watched women's), I always felt somewhat uncomfortable with their costumes. I couldn't figure out what it was but when I discovered Yuzu, I think I've found the answer. Yuzu wears costumes with frills and bijou. He looks good in them too. He also skates beautifully as well as wildly (LGC, Hello I Love you, Vertigo, etc).

 

Notte Stellata is a knock out program for me. It is beautiful, elegant, moving and a touch of femininity. I think that perfectly suits him and his slim built with boyish look does help to include that femininity. A beautiful being can be a boy or a girl or both, if you'd prefer:D

So yes femininity in performing art is definitely accepted among Japanese culture especially. As a matter of fact, there is an all-girl theatre company/school called "Takarazuka" where women play role as men. In more traditional performing art like "Noh" or "Kabuki", all-men theatre have to have men play women role. Both are perfectly accepted though latter (traditional ones) are considered more sophisticated or high class (like musical to opera).

 

I can carry on but I'll stop it for now. If anyone is interested a bit more, please let me know.

 

Thank you for such a fascinating perspective esp from the perspective of a Japanese person and I’d love to know more! 

 

I definitely get the sense that in the eyes of his East Asian audiences yuzu’s fierceness in competition offsets the ‘femininity’ of his looks (and when he’s off ice, I agree that its less femininity as boyish playfulness). His mannerisms and way of talking in Japanese are quite manly when he’s not being impeccably polite? 

 

I’m intrigued about how frills/lace are Western femininity signifiers - any idea how they’re viewed in Japan? Because I think frills on a man in Japan is associated (perhaps due to shoujo manga’s French influences) with ikemen/nobility/refinement/prince-like ideas that Western culture largely grew out of. 

[BWOZWaltz]

5 minutes ago, Xen said:

From a chinese perspective, I've barely met any male rinkmates who consider Yuzu "feminine." Usually in Chinese, when we say "xxx is very feminine" (especially in a negative way) it is in reference to attitude, behavior and mannerisms. Very few guys I know of who watch figure skating, would consider Yuzu "feminine" in that way. His competitive attitude, and his mentality are both considered very "masculine."

 

Also, traditionally in Chinese opera, the older ones such as Beijing Opera, only men could act female roles. And being able to take on female roles is considered "professional" and "artistically well-rounded"-non of what happens on stage is carried on to the off-stage persona. In China, there are older forms of opera where all the roles are played by women, and the same would apply to female actors who play male roles on-stage. There is a slight irony in some ways though. Traditionally in China, a gentleman is someone who looks beautiful, but has a very masculine "aura," "attitude" and way of dealing with life. And Yuzu does tend to embody that. 

 

Yuzu's fondness for plushies is actually not that odd for his generation- working with a bunch of guys born after 1990, did I ever mention how many Totoro plush pillows are in my office? I've had my hello kitty and chopper plushies show up on male co-worker desks before. >_<

 

Speaking of which....how did we get to banana art in less than 8 hours? o_O

 

 

 

Thanks for your insight. I think Japanese and Chinese both share some aspects when it comes to beauty in men/boys or men playing women role I think I can understand why Yuzu is popular among Chinese. It must be very odd for western countries that somehow the border between men and women in performing art is not so clear. Masculine aura or attitude is definitely in Yuzu but at the same time, he can be so elegant and soft. I just think Yuzu likes frills for his costume is like his love for Pooh. It may be odd but I get it. It's perfectly harmonious in Yuzu world:D

[wpisces]

46 minutes ago, BWOZWaltz said:

I think many of fanyus in Japan (I'm not necessary included in them as I am out of the country for too long), they don't think Yuzu as a girl or too feminine. They (and I) think he is a boy when he's off ice but when he's on ice and I mean when he's really "on", he can be definitely "阿修羅" or "鬼" (demon or Asura) for his fierce competitiveness. That is definitely not associated with femininity.

 

Yeh, I saw many Japanese and Chinses fans consider his gestures as " cute and boyish" instead of "feminine". When I read some translated gossips ( on Girlchanel ???? if I'm not wrong), large amount of haters ( most of whom seem to be middle aged men ) said that they don't like him because of his femininity. These people always criticize Japanese male idols who are overwhelmingly popular among teenagers and ladies in 20s 30s so I don't care much. 

[Xen]

1 minute ago, BWOZWaltz said:

 

Thanks for your insight. I think Japanese and Chinese both share some aspects when it comes to beauty in men/boys or men playing women role I think I can understand why Yuzu is popular among Chinese. It must be very odd for western countries that somehow the border between men and women in performing art is not so clear. Masculine aura or attitude is definitely in Yuzu but at the same time, he can be so elegant and soft. I just think Yuzu likes frills for his costume is like his love for Pooh. It may be odd but I get it. It's perfectly harmonious in Yuzu world:D

Well, frills and lace is a bit odd even for post 1990's guys in China. I think the other issue though is what is viewed as "necessary" and "befitting" skating. For example, dance and figure skating are both considered beautiful and elegant ways of expressing yourself. So sometimes a very "hyper-masculine" skater won't fit as well, because it doesn't fit the idea of "graceful" or "elegant." Also, none of Yuzu's music would call for a very "hyper masculine" way of expression, so it would be very strange if he went for a hyper-masculine performance style. 

 

Thing is, I don't think the lines are not blurry in western society either. For example, ballet- grace, softness, delicacy and elegance, all of which are traditionally attributed to females, are still required from male dancers. They may not need to be so in real life, but on stage, they have to play and fit their character's role. And maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but tights were originally worn by men, and men also wore heels (short ones), because showing off your sexy legs was considered okay for males in medieval Europe (but not okay for women). And western men, way back in history, did not lose to women in the fancy clothing category. Dance, as much as fencing, was considered part and parcel of a proper gentleman's education. So the entire "hyper masculine" ideal for men, is a more recent development (possibly post Victorian age). 

[OonsieHui]

22 minutes ago, Xen said:

Speaking of which....how did we get to banana art in less than 8 hours? o_O

 

 

 

Blame it all on @SparkleSalad..... its all her fault. 

 

36 minutes ago, BWOZWaltz said:

Not sure if you guys have already settled with this topic and moved on to something else as I haven't finished reading the rest of the pages (I'm still at 3244...5 more pages to go at this point). But I may be of some assistance for providing a Japanese person's view on this as I am Japanese born & raised there until I finally left home to live overseas.

 

The tumbler author made one major mistake at the very beginning of the article. It is to do with the understanding of the word "wa" (和). In Chinese character (probably both for Japanese & Chinese), the use of this word ”wa” means "peace or harmony". That is correct. However, for Japanese, "wa" also means Japanese way, flavour, style or whatever the subject you're going to associate the "wa" word with (like food, house, clothes etc) NB means something Japanesy. For example, Japanese kimono, we call it "wa fuku" (Japanese clothing). So when Yuzu said he is pursing "wa" programs, he didn't mean "harmonious" or "peaceful" program but he meant "Japanese" style/feel/taste program. When he listened to Seimei OST, he liked the sound of "fue"  and "wa-daiko" (Japanese flute & Japanese drum) and that got him thinking about a concept of Japanese program. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMININITY. 

 

I think many of fanyus in Japan (I'm not necessary included in them as I am out of the country for too long), they don't think Yuzu as a girl or too feminine. They (and I) think he is a boy when he's off ice but when he's on ice and I mean when he's really "on", he can be definitely "阿修羅" or "鬼" (demon or Asura) for his fierce competitiveness. That is definitely not associated with femininity.

It is interesting that Japanese fanyu sometime calls him "フリルを着た阿修羅”. English equivalent would be like not "Devil wears Prada" but "Devil wears frills". Do you get a picture?

 

I could be wrong but I know from internet that lot of Japanese girls prefer slim or skinny built men with not too much muscles. I for being shojo and shonen manga reader for many years, prefer men to be not so macho when it comes to admire their figure.

 

For many years, when I occasionally watched men's FS (I mostly watched women's), I always felt somewhat uncomfortable with their costumes. I couldn't figure out what it was but when I discovered Yuzu, I think I've found the answer. Yuzu wears costumes with frills and bijou. He looks good in them too. He also skates beautifully as well as wildly (LGC, Hello I Love you, Vertigo, etc).

 

Notte Stellata is a knock out program for me. It is beautiful, elegant, moving and a touch of femininity. I think that perfectly suits him and his slim built with boyish look does help to include that femininity. A beautiful being can be a boy or a girl or both, if you'd prefer:D

So yes femininity in performing art is definitely accepted among Japanese culture especially. As a matter of fact, there is an all-girl theatre company/school called "Takarazuka" where women play role as men. In more traditional performing art like "Noh" or "Kabuki", all-men theatre have to have men play women role. Both are perfectly accepted though latter (traditional ones) are considered more sophisticated or high class (like musical to opera).

 

I can carry on but I'll stop it for now. If anyone is interested a bit more, please let me know.

 

Thank you very much for your insight! Its always interesting to hear a bit more from the perspectives of different cultures and ethnicity.

 

A fellow Chinese has already given a piece of Chinese perspective, so I'll just leave it as that I have never even had a hint of doubt regarding Yuzu's masculinity. When I watch him skate, I don't think masculine or feminine, all if think is BEAUTIFUL. 

[VyVy99]

29 minutes ago, kaerb said:

Thank you for such a fascinating perspective esp from the perspective of a Japanese person and I’d love to know more! 

 

I definitely get the sense that in the eyes of his East Asian audiences yuzu’s fierceness in competition offsets the ‘femininity’ of his looks (and when he’s off ice, I agree that its less femininity as boyish playfulness). His mannerisms and way of talking in Japanese are quite manly when he’s not being impeccably polite? 

 

I’m intrigued about how frills/lace are Western femininity signifiers - any idea how they’re viewed in Japan? Because I think frills on a man in Japan is associated (perhaps due to shoujo manga’s French influences) with ikemen/nobility/refinement/prince-like ideas that Western culture largely grew out of. 

Agree. What his looks usually fools people into thinking he's a certain type of character, he gets back all of it by his competitive (almost killer) aura when he skates, and also his firm words and decicive behaviours. He's one of the perfect example for "Don't judge a book by its cover", anyone who takes some time to look him up would see how strong and manly he is.

 

It could be a difference it culture, but I've always considered manliness to show in how you live up to your words, take responsibilities, how you treat others with respect. It takes some guts and brains to be nice and polite while many guys out there seem to be priviledged by the society to be total jerks. You know sometimes I feel like I'm becoming the type of guy I like ._.