Team France

[SitTwizzle]

1 hour ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

Kevin has been doing this in competition for a few years now  

And I hadn't even noticed it!

Is there anybody else doing it?

[SparkleSalad]

33 minutes ago, SitTwizzle said:

And I hadn't even noticed it!

Is there anybody else doing it?

 

Not that I know of! More 4Fs in the world than back counter 3As 

[rockstaryuzu]

2 hours ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

Kevin has been doing this in competition for a few years now  

How come I never noticed? Anyway, it's still a good video. 

[yuzupon]

Aymoz landing a back counter 3A is an old news. I remember it being THE reason this planet's inhabitants first got interested in him...back in, I'd say 2018.

And seeing that it got talked about almost as frequently as his PE, I don't know how people don't notice it. 

 

My always bitter self also remember this point weaponised by antis to say that Zu's back counter 3A isn't that special after all. I also remember us speculating that this (that someone else landed bc-3A) was the reason Zu tried the twizzles sandwich 3A, briefly. I could misremember, ofc, but I know I don't. 

[SitTwizzle]

11 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

Aymoz landing a back counter 3A is an old news. I remember it being THE reason this planet's inhabitants first got interested in him...back in, I'd say 2018.

And seeing that it got talked about almost as frequently as his PE, I don't know how people don't notice it. 

 

My always bitter self also remember this point weaponised by antis to say that Zu's back counter 3A isn't that special after all. I also remember us speculating that this (that someone else landed bc-3A) was the reason Zu tried the twizzles sandwich 3A, briefly. I could misremember, ofc, but I know I don't. 

Thank you, I didn't know all this.

For me, apart of being French, Kevin Aymoz is a skater with physical (flexibility...) and artistic abilities maybe closer from Nathan Chen's and who does perform in his competitive programs. It will never be as enthralling as Yuzuru Hanyu's, he will never bring you in another world or make you believe ice is a magical surface on which you can dance everything better and easier than on any floor, but he's so pleasant and entertaining.

As to his twizzle sandwich 3A, it is a completely different jump from his back counter one and I love both. Like if Empress Triple Axel had become twins in his harem, but not identical twins.  By the way, we can tell he won't approach his 4A with mere crossovers, but I wonder how will be the entry and the transition.

[FlyingCamel]

7 minutes ago, SitTwizzle said:

Thank you, I didn't know all this.

For me, apart of being French, Kevin Aymoz is a skater with physical (flexibility...) and artistic abilities maybe closer from Nathan Chen's and who does perform in his competitive programs. It will never be as enthralling as Yuzuru Hanyu's, he will never bring you in another world or make you believe ice is a magical surface on which you can dance everything better and easier than on any floor, but he's so pleasant and entertaining.

As to his twizzle sandwich 3A, it is a completely different jump from his back counter one and I love both. Like if Empress Triple Axel had become twins in his harem, but not identical twins.  By the way, we can tell he won't approach his 4A with mere crossovers, but I wonder how will be the entry and the transition.

I know jump entries from just crossovers aren’t Yuzu’s style in general but I think he might make an exception for 4A? At least at the beginning where it’s too risky to think about transitions... then again I’m off-topic here and no one can predict what this mysterious man is thinking so 🤷‍♀️

[SitTwizzle]

2 minutes ago, FlyingCamel said:

I know jump entries from just crossovers aren’t Yuzu’s style in general but I think he might make an exception for 4A? At least at the beginning where it’s too risky to think about transitions... then again I’m off-topic here and no one can predict what this mysterious man is thinking so 🤷‍♀️

I got first out of topic.

I don't think he would consider he has the 4A, if it is "naked".

We can expect a choice of music allowing some change in skating rhythm to prepare it, but not a no-entry jump; and maybe an easier transition, still meaningful in the music, as he did as a teen.

[EisElle]

1 hour ago, rockstaryuzu said:

How come I never noticed? Anyway, it's still a good video. 

among "top" men Kevin is probably the skater with more types of entries into 3A (Yuzu aside), iirc he aso did some besti squat into 3A (well, contrary to some other top skaters, he knows TR into jumps are a thing). So it looks like 3A it's one of his most comfortable jumps (not surpisingly, the ice scope stats of his 3A were good too, with both very good height&distance)

In his earlier attempts you could see he was still in the process of building control(and confidence) so he used to do the counter a bit tentatively and he didn't swiftly switch from LBO to LFO. Now his control has improved and he can execute it well

 

3 hours ago, SitTwizzle said:

And I hadn't even noticed it!

Is there anybody else doing it?

afaik no one other than Kevin and of course Yuzu tried it in comp

Mura tried it too when he was bullied by Yuzu and Sano-san during CiONTU

iirc Nobu once did a counter-axel side by side with Yuzu at the end of a FaOI but I don't remember, was it 3A or 1A? (and was it sbs? Maybe I'm getting confused with the sbs 1A with V/M but I would have sworn there was a sbs 3A with Nobu...)

Considering Yuzu has been using it for 9 years, it's pretty surprising so few have tried it on video and even less have incorporated it in their programs

On the other hand, backcounter 2A is instead more "popular", a few ladies (Mai among them) have included it in their programs (I like to think Yuzu has helped popularizing the counter entry into axel a bit, but idk how popular it already was before him)

 

@yuzupon tbh I don't think Yuzu brought twizzle sandwich to claim some kind of exclusivity on an entry, he had been basically training it in NS for two years so it makes sense he wanted to bring it to comp (and without doubt it fit Otonal wonderfully, too bad judges were always stingy with it, it got full GOE only once and that's nothing short of a CRIME)

Anyway, as I said, that in 9 years we are still counting on (2/5 of)one hand the skaters doing it in comp speaks volumes. Of course in part it could that there's no real reward for doing a difficult entry into a 3A, but since boys these days like to post all the cool things they try in practices and ice shows... ok, maybe it speaks more about how utterly incompetent ISU is, if skaters prefer posting awful quad attempts(even clear <<) instead of playing with a counter3A good thing axel is mandatory in both SP and FS or it would risk extinction like proper Lz)

 

 

x2

re: Nessie

I think it's quite likely the first Nessie Yuzu will try in a program will be entered with the traditional long glide he also used in Turin.

Let's not underestimate the difficulty of the jump. Yuzuru should reach an amazing consistency on it before also adding a difficult entry that would make an extremely dangerous element (with a very, very tricky timing) even more dangerous.

He's gonna need more speed and control than going into the 4Lz, and looking at his 4Lz, however short his preparation is(and that's on his own a feat), he still isn't playing with different entries.

I don't doubt Yuzuru has his own (very high)standard about how a good jump should be like, but it's not like all his new jumps were always debuted out of transitions. In this sense, 4Lo was probably an outlier in his "modus operandi"

From how Yuzu has been talking about 4A, it feels that the aim is landing a fully rotated jump safely

[Paskud]

56 minutes ago, LadyLou said:

afaik no one other than Kevin and of course Yuzu tried it in comp

Mura tried it too when he was bullied by Yuzu and Sano-san during CiONTU

iirc Nobu once did a counter-axel side by side with Yuzu at the end of a FaOI but I don't remember, was it 3A or 1A? (and was it sbs? Maybe I'm getting confused with the sbs 1A with V/M but I would have sworn there was a sbs 3A with Nobu...)

Considering Yuzu has been using it for 9 years, it's pretty surprising so few have tried it on video and even less have incorporated it in their programs

On the other hand, backcounter 2A is instead more "popular", a few ladies (Mai among them) have included it in their programs (I like to think Yuzu has helped popularizing the counter entry into axel a bit, but idk how popular it already was before him)

EKHEM

 

 

 

and Samodelkina has hopped 3-turn before 3a

[SitTwizzle]

13 minutes ago, Paskud said:

EKHEM

 

 

I must admit I had seen this program of Nobunari Oda's (so funny!) but not ever bothered to try to tell the jumps, let alone entries.

I think I have much progress to do in watching skating programs. 

[EisElle]

26 minutes ago, Paskud said:

EKHEM

 

 

 

and Samodelkina has hopped 3-turn before 3a

ok, I got the event wrong for Nobu.

Still, JapanOpen doesn't count :PPPPPPPPPPP  LMAO I always forget JO exists, sorry Nobu... I feel a deja vu, pretty sure this isn't the first time I forgot what he did, my brain is just impervious to JO

and even then, we're still counting people who landed backcounter3A on...3/5 of one hand

 

And it looks like the girls want to show the boys who's the real boss

(it could be because for ladies landing 3A is *still* a big deal, ergo landing it out of TR is *still* an even bigger deal and a way to distinguish themselves?)

[SitTwizzle]

Just now, LadyLou said:

ok, I got the occasion wrong for Nobu.

Still, JapanOpen doesn't count :PPPPPPPPPPP  LMAO I always forget JO exists, sorry Nobu

and even then, we're still counting people who landed backcounter3A on...3/5 of one hand

 

And it looks like the girls want to show the boys who's the real boss

(it could be because for ladies landing 3A is *still* a big deal, ergo landing it out of TR is *still* an even bigger deal and a way to distinguish themselves?)

Japan Open 2019 was Javier Fernández' last competition, and the only time when Alina Zagitova skated Cleopatra clean (and I loved it).

[EisElle]

Just now, SitTwizzle said:

Japan Open 2019 was Javier Fernández' last competition, and the only time when Alina Zagitova skated Cleopatra clean (and I loved it).

indeed, I had completely removed that and I was sure his last comp had been Euros LMAO

[rockstaryuzu]

3 hours ago, LadyLou said:

Anyway, as I said, that in 9 years we are still counting on (2/5 of)one hand the skaters doing it in comp speaks volumes. Of course in part it could that there's no real reward for doing a difficult entry into a 3A

I know and it's a crime. A scoring crime.

[rockstaryuzu]

On 7/1/2020 at 11:35 AM, yuzupon said:

My always bitter self also remember this point weaponised by antis to say that Zu's back counter 3A isn't that special after all

Seriously? Incredible.

 

Anyway, maybe it's old news, but the video is new and Kevin posted it for whatever reason so,