REPORT: Lim files complaint against Bell: alleged bullying, interference

[Anzi]

I have many questions about this issue, but first, why there is no record, report or witness whatsoever on Bell stop her skating or after her run through to LOOK AFTER the people she might unintentionally hurt? So she just kept it going or ignore it? I am waiting for her own accounts. 

 

This issue is bizzard in many levels. I was really surprised when first heard about it. I am not a fan of either skater, so these just my thoughts as an outsider.

[utsukushii3A]

Oh dear again. And again not saying anything about the bullying, but as a skater, I can tell this from the clearer video: it is definitely an unaltered part of Mariah's choreography that she approaches the boards at that part of the program and turns in a way that would be very dangerous to be in her way. Eunsoo was fully behind her at that time, and Mariah had her head up and back. Any skater rehearsing a program has the 100% right-of-way, and if I had been injured from behind by an elite skater practicing a program, my coach would far more likely than not be scolding me for being in the way and risking hurting her.

 

That being said, Eunsoo is a 16-year-old girl at her first Worlds and can't be expected to have the focus and instincts of a seasoned veteran at all times, or even the focus and instincts she has when training normally at her usual rink. Regardless of whether or not it was a breach of skating protocol for her to be standing there, everyone makes honest mistakes, especially under such enormous pressure. IF Mariah had been bullying her, I'm sure it would have seemed intentional, and for all anyone knows, it still could have been. But given the dynamics of skating, that would basically require Mariah to be a ninja or have eyes in her blades. Even if the bullying allegations are true, someone can be a bully and have an accident, just like a thief can steal someone's handbag and then accidentally spill coffee her in the courtroom.

 

I'm not psychic and can't know what was going on in Mariah's head in that time, but this absolutely, 100%, beyond the shadow of a doubt could have been an accident. Not saying that it was, but such an accident is completely plausible no matter who is involved.

[hopeandlegacy2018]

1 hour ago, Anzi said:

I have many questions about this issue, but first, why there is no record, report or witness whatsoever on Bell stop her skating or after her run through to LOOK AFTER the people she might unintentionally hurt? So she just kept it going or ignore it? I am waiting for her own accounts. 

 

This issue is bizzard in many levels. I was really surprised when first heard about it. I am not a fan of either skater, so these just my thoughts as an outsider.

 

Since it’s not a collision, Bell might be too concentrated to even realize her blade cut someone. When I skate, sometimes my blade feels a bit odd, but I was going too fast to look back and check what happened, so I just shake it off. It also seems like Lim left before Bell’s run-through ended. 

[hopeandlegacy2018]

1 hour ago, jinxxoo said:

One of the initial article translations said their training rink team changed them to different sessions and to use different locker rooms due to some ongoing bullying/concern, that's why I'm surprised that no one has at least looked into that on the English media side as far as I can tell, that shouldn't be that difficult to confirm.

 

It seems news around the world are just translations of different parts of the Korean article. What is journalism

[Yuzupu]

1 hour ago, utsukushii3A said:

That being said, Eunsoo is a 16-year-old girl at her first Worlds and can't be expected to have the focus and instincts of a seasoned veteran at all times, or even the focus and instincts she has when training normally at her usual rink. Regardless of whether or not it was a breach of skating protocol for her to be standing there, everyone makes honest mistakes, especially under such enormous pressure.

From that gif, I think Eunsoo cannot be blamed for being inattentive or careless. From the direction they were going, Mariah was the one who could notice Eunsoo first, she came from behind and whisked by Eunsoo. Mariah had the right of way, but Eunsoo already stayed out of way by skating slowly close to the board. Maybe Eunsoo could have kept her eyes on Mariah all the time and stayed really really far away, I don't know. I can not say for Mariah's intention or non-intention and whether the bullying were the truth or not, but Eunsoo was in no way at fault for the situation happened on ice at that moment.

[Katt]

Things are turning out very ugly with multiple media channels and some skaters's comments involve. I watched the blurry clips several times and I think it just an accident.

 

- Mariah was in her RT and she got her right of way, but EunSoo was walking slowly near the board, the only way for her to be out of Mariah's way is to jump off the board.

 

- I question about Raf's role in this case. He clearly knew Eunsoo injuried as she left the practice and ask for medical help right away. Did Eunsoo and her team really didn't talk to Raf that's Mariah's blade hit Eunsoo's left leg ? Did Raf not inform Mariah later ? Their group practice was 12:15-12:45 JST. Some of the Korean article about ATS claim was out  at 4-5 pm, that's about 3-4 hours, more than enough to handle things in peace, especially they under the same coach.  ATS make it clear that they report purely because Mariah didn't apologize. 

 

There's a several collisions happened this season so far, its not a new thing but most of the time skaters are able to handle it well. Satoko had collision with Kaori when she did her RT at SA. She stopped and checked if Kaori's ok and continue. Kaori's coach even yelled and told her to apologize Satoko. Shoma during his RT at 4CC hit the board right next to Jason, he stopped and apologized. Most of the time, a simple sorry could solve things. Its not just about who's right or wrong in the way, its more about a good manner. 

 

No comment about bullying thing as I still  want more info about this. 

[hoodie axel]

Just now, Katt said:

Things are turning out very ugly with multiple media channels and some skaters's comments involve. I watched the blurry clips several times and I think it just an accident. 

- Mariah was in her RT and she got her right of way, but EunSoo was walking very near the board, the only way for her to be out of Mariah's way is to jump off the board.

- I question about Raf's role in this case. He clearly knew Eunsoo injuried as she left the practice and ask for medical help right away. Did Eunsoo and her team really didn't talk to Raf that's Mariah's blade hit Eunsoo's left leg ? Did Raf not inform Mariah later ? Their group practice was 12:15-12:45 JST. Some of the Korean article about ATS claim was out  at 4-5 pm, that's about 3-4 hours, more than enough to handle things in peace.  ATS make it clear that they report purely because Mariah didn't apologize.  

  

1. I can't conclude anything, but it might be, yes.

2. Yes. I have no idea why people are pretending Eunsoo wasn't giving Bell her right of way. There have been several times we've seen skaters still be in the rink when others are in their RT.

3. Not only that, but also, if the bullying accusations are true, or even if not, there seems to be some distrust between two of his skaters, and there seems to be no awareness on his part.

 

Ashley Wagner, in the meantime, continues to be a great role model. Not.

[Katt]

12 minutes ago, hoodie axel said:

1. I can't conclude anything, but it might be, yes.

2. Yes. I have no idea why people are pretending Eunsoo wasn't giving Bell her right of way. There have been several times we've seen skaters still be in the rink when others are in their RT.

3. Not only that, but also, if the bullying accusations are true, or even if not, there seems to be some distrust between two of his skaters, and there seems to be no awareness on his part.

 

Ashley Wagner, in the meantime, continues to be a great role model. Not.

Yeah, I mostly watch Yuzuru's practice but alot of time when a skater do RT, others still do jump or spin with safe distance and very cafeful to stay out of the way. Several fans and one journalist reported about Eunsoo's injury way before Korean articles out, no way Raf couldn't know. He should be the one who handle this situation.

[anski]

3 hours ago, utsukushii3A said:

Oh dear again. And again not saying anything about the bullying, but as a skater, I can tell this from the clearer video: it is definitely an unaltered part of Mariah's choreography that she approaches the boards at that part of the program and turns in a way that would be very dangerous to be in her way. Eunsoo was fully behind her at that time, and Mariah had her head up and back. Any skater rehearsing a program has the 100% right-of-way, and if I had been injured from behind by an elite skater practicing a program, my coach would far more likely than not be scolding me for being in the way and risking hurting her.

 

That being said, Eunsoo is a 16-year-old girl at her first Worlds and can't be expected to have the focus and instincts of a seasoned veteran at all times, or even the focus and instincts she has when training normally at her usual rink. Regardless of whether or not it was a breach of skating protocol for her to be standing there, everyone makes honest mistakes, especially under such enormous pressure. IF Mariah had been bullying her, I'm sure it would have seemed intentional, and for all anyone knows, it still could have been. But given the dynamics of skating, that would basically require Mariah to be a ninja or have eyes in her blades. Even if the bullying allegations are true, someone can be a bully and have an accident, just like a thief can steal someone's handbag and then accidentally spill coffee her in the courtroom.

 

I'm not psychic and can't know what was going on in Mariah's head in that time, but this absolutely, 100%, beyond the shadow of a doubt could have been an accident. Not saying that it was, but such an accident is completely plausible no matter who is involved.

But the thing is that Eunsoo was already in the boards. She was totally out of the way. What was she gonna do? Jump over the boards? And imho it was reckless of Mariah to do that leg stretch when there were other skaters around. It’s not like it was an essential part of her program she *had* to rehearse.

[WinForPooh]

Just saw a comment from Vanessa:

 

 

[sallycinnamon]

To me it raises lots of questions that Mariah didn't even apologise publicly, whether she knew that her blade hit Eunsoo's leg or not. 

 

2 hours ago, hoodie axel said:

3. Not only that, but also, if the bullying accusations are true, or even if not, there seems to be some distrust between two of his skaters, and there seems to be no awareness on his part.

 

Even if the accusations are not true it really seems that something is not okay between Mariah and Eunsoo.

[EisElle]

I'm sick at the double standard from some media.

 

When in Boston (I'm sorry to drag Denis here, but it's pertinent re:right of way discourse) a skater interfered with Yuzuru's rt IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RINK, it was on Yuzu to change his set up of his jump because the other skater was (iirc) spinning and wasn't aware of his surroundings, and the US coach Frank Carrol didn't even think an apology was necessary, nor it was necessary to urge his skater to be more careful. No one cared about the right of way being blatantly breached.

 

Now suddenly the right of way is something sacred and it looks like skaters are supposed to yeet themselves out of the rink or learn to fly to leave all 60×whatever meters of ice completely free. Question: are skaters even allowed to stay by the boards talking to coaches and sipping water and blowing their nose?

Eunsoo was standings as close to the boards as she possibly could and she was supposed to go WHERE? Mariah had plenty of space to slightly alter her route safely, or just avoid raising her leg. It's not a vital part of a jump set-up and it's not like skaters don't ever skip choreo during rt... and Eunsoo should be the one at fault? 

Heck, in every practice I've seen, skaters doing the RT do NOT behave as if they were alone in the rink, blind to all that happens around them. I've seen Yuzu alter his path when his music was on and I remember at least one instance where he went close to Patrick, don't remember during whose rt, and he promptly apologized, because even when a skater is super-careful it can happen you find yourself at the same moment, the same place. Skaters can change speed and direction FAST and sometimes they mis-calculate where the others will be in the next 5 or 10 seconds.

Eunsoo is supposed to be aware of her surroundings (and have eyes on her back) but Mariah, who skated forward, is not?

Gosh, I even like Mariah more as a skater and I don't want my image of her to be changed, I'd rather keep living in my little unicorns&rainbows world, but this whole thing leaves a bad taste. Yes, the video doesn't prove any ill-intention, but it shows some carelessness on Mariah's part. An apologize after being informed of what had happened would have been the right thing to do. If the apology had happened before ATS made their statement and they lied about that, well, shame on them and good on Mariah. But if it's the truth, it's not a behaviour I particularly like. Afaik nor Raf not anyone else claims an apology happened in the immediate hours after the accident, before everything blew up.

 

And then there's still the rest of their allegations, which I hope will get looked into properly without any "it must all be an evil plot from the super-evil Korean agency" prejudice.

If it's really an evil plot, then ATS is likely among the dumbest agent of evil because it's backfiring on them spectacularly...

[WinForPooh]

24 minutes ago, LadyLou said:

I'm sick at the double standard from some media.

 

When in Boston (I'm sorry to drag Denis here, but it's pertinent re:right of way discourse) a skater interfered with Yuzuru's rt IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RINK, it was on Yuzu to change his set up of his jump because the other skater was (iirc) spinning and wasn't aware of his surroundings, and the US coach Frank Carrol didn't even think an apology was necessary, nor it was necessary to urge his skater to be more careful. No one cared about the right of way being blatantly breached.

 

Now suddenly the right of way is something sacred and it looks like skaters are supposed to yeet themselves out of the rink or learn to fly to leave all 60×whatever meters of ice completely free. Question: are skaters even allowed to stay by the boards talking to coaches and sipping water and blowing their nose?

Eunsoo was standings as close to the boards as she possibly could and she was supposed to go WHERE? Mariah had plenty of space to slightly alter her route safely, or just avoid raising her leg. It's not a vital part of a jump set-up and it's not like skaters don't ever skip choreo during rt... and Eunsoo should be the one at fault? 

Heck, in every practice I've seen, skaters doing the RT do NOT behave as if they were alone in the rink, blind to all that happens around them. I've seen Yuzu alter his path when his music was on and I remember at least one instance where he went close to Patrick, don't remember during whose rt, and he promptly apologized, because even when a skater is super-careful it can happen you find yourself at the same moment, the same place. Skaters can change speed and direction FAST and sometimes they mis-calculate where the others will be in the next 5 or 10 seconds.

Eunsoo is supposed to be aware of her surroundings (and have eyes on her back) but Mariah, who skated forward, is not?

Gosh, I even like Mariah more as a skater and I don't want my image of her to be changed, I'd rather keep living in my little unicorns&rainbows world, but this whole thing leaves a bad taste. Yes, the video doesn't prove any ill-intention, but it shows some carelessness on Mariah's part. An apologize after being informed of what had happened would have been the right thing to do. If the apology had happened before ATS made their statement and they lied about that, well, shame on them and good on Mariah. But if it's the truth, it's not a behaviour I particularly like. Afaik nor Raf not anyone else claims an apology happened in the immediate hours after the accident, before everything blew up.

 

And then there's still the rest of their allegations, which I hope will get looked into properly without any "it must all be an evil plot from the super-evil Korean agency" prejudice.

If it's really an evil plot, then ATS is likely among the dumbest agent of evil because it's backfiring on them spectacularly...

 

I laughed. Sorry, no, I agree, it's all quite fair what you said, it's just that I read it emphasising the italicised parts and the whole thing sounded like a very angry kitten. A very angry kitten with many good points, but  yeet themselves out of the rinks  

[Katt]

A clearer footage : https://twitter.com/sweetggulyada/status/1109096135681957888

 

 

Mariah definitely saw Eunsoo at least 5 sec before the incident. Just because she's in her RT, doesn't mean she can close her eyes for the whole 3 mins. After this vid, I'm on Eunsoo's side.  

[WinForPooh]

1 hour ago, Katt said:

A clearer footage : https://twitter.com/sweetggulyada/status/1109096135681957888

 

 

Mariah definitely saw Eunsoo at least 5 sec before the incident. Just because she's in her RT, doesn't mean she can close her eyes for the whole 3 mins. After this vid, I'm on Eunsoo's side.  

 

That really does not look good. At all.