Proposed changes for next season

[Rainna]

2 hours ago, kaerb said:

The 4A BV lowering is pretty blatant targeting even by ISU standards but hey, maybe we should give the ISU credit for hearing '4A' coming out of yuzu's mouth and not even questioning that he'll land it before scrambling to pre-emptively rob him on BVs. Faith as staunch as any fanyus.

 

Plot twist: they're actually rooting for Yuzu to land the 4A first, so they lower the BV to discourage everyone else from trying to do it, because they know Yuzu will try regardless of the points. 

[robin]

14 hours ago, Mineeal said:

 

 

OMG! So they just Randomly decide?, like hmmm... i think 4F Looks harder than 4Lo, Yeah i don't really know if its true or Not but hey it Looks like that to me so lets give the points based on my opinion?! WTH!?! Gosh if Not because im on finals i would go beg my profesors to give me some of their time and do a proper analysis, at least through math and physics, true i wouldnt have the skaters opinion but at least it would make better Sense! And would be based on something Not just whom ever opinion this was based on!! 

They still need to vote for this, right??? Good Lord i hope this don't pass! 

 

Well it's not completely random. The order S/T -> Lo -> F/Lz -> A is in about right. Sals and toeloops allow the most prerotation and are the easiest to jump. Loops also allow as much prerotation, but they're jumped and landed on the same leg and require more edge control so they're more difficult. Flips and Lutzes allow only 90° prerotation (in theory) and Axels require an extra 1/2 rotation plus the forward take-off throws most skaters off.

 

But the differences in BV seem arbitrary at times and don't always represent legitimately how much more difficult a jump is. There's also discussions about how the quad versions of some jumps (like loops) are more difficult than some quads which are assigned a higher BV. The 4A deserving only one point more than the 4Lz (or 1.5 in case of maxed out GOEs) is just ridiculous to say the least....

[Neenah]

17 minutes ago, yuzupon said:

I am awake! Bcz of Alice:

Yuzu's WC '17 FS:

 

Chen's WC '18 FS:

 

The ending of her post:

"So, well, maybe the ISU did know what they’re doing when they said they want to focus more on quality over quantity? Or it could be sheer luck, since I’m still convinced no one in that organization actually knows how math works.

Anyhow, I guess what I’m trying to say is, everyone calm down. It’s not the end of the world yet, alright?"

 

 

ETA: let me weep at the decrease of the Stsq and the increase of Chsq, the latter of which makes H&L's Chsq gets the lower final score.

I am not sure using this particular result for comparison is that useful. Yuzu was flawless in this performance and that is very rare in the men's field. The new GOE, deductions and the weird PC guidelines would change things a lot for performances with mistakes.

[robin]

Conspiracy theory: They've over-complicated everything so that no one knows what's what anymore and can't really hold the judges accountable anymore because... where to start? It will be even harder to track what rules were applied and how they were applied just by looking at the scores. What a mess lmao

[yuzuangel]

It's not a new thing that they make rules targeting a single skater or a group of skaters for winning too much. Although I have a feeling the Russian ladies won't suffer too much from that because they have a strong Fed backing them, even though it would be a lot easier to change rules to "level the playing field" so to speak for the ladies event. But after Vancouver, they made a couple of rule changes that were directly targeting Yuna. They made it so that you could only repeat 2A once (before, you could repeat doubles as many times as you want). They also changed the GOE scaling so that instead of getting 3 points for +3 GOE, you got a scaled value depending on the element. Yuna famously made up for any base value deficit with GOEs (and the 3rd 2A). They also increased the value of the 3A, which helped Mao, her main rival (although Mao had other issues in the years following Vancouver). After 2006, they changed the rules so that you couldn't repeat spin positions, after Shizuka used like three donuts in one FS. 

 

So honestly, it's A Thing. I think it was controversial back then, too, but what I find funny is that their lack of proofreading makes their intentions obvious. If they had the budget for an intern or two they could have made it less obvious.

[cirelle]

1 hour ago, yuzupon said:

I am awake! Bcz of Alice:

Yuzu's WC '17 FS:

 

Chen's WC '18 FS:

 

The ending of her post:

"So, well, maybe the ISU did know what they’re doing when they said they want to focus more on quality over quantity? Or it could be sheer luck, since I’m still convinced no one in that organization actually knows how math works.

Anyhow, I guess what I’m trying to say is, everyone calm down. It’s not the end of the world yet, alright?"

 

 

ETA: let me weep at the decrease of the Stsq and the increase of Chsq, the latter of which makes H&L's Chsq gets the lower final score.

 

Wait, the 4F2T gets almost 1.5 points more? Coincidence or conspiracy? (Or error?)

 

And if their goal *is* to keep Yuzu from more WRs... they already eliminated like four of the seven points (for the 3F) he’d need. I can see him doing it. With another quad, he’d even have room for a slight error. 

 

But I still think the proposal is stupid. 

[OonsieHui]

. . . . Well ISU has put together a marvellous pile of sh*t haven't they. . . . 

[yuzupon]

@Yatagarasu @Neenah

Since I was the one bringing her post here, I feel responsible to make it clear.

Alice didn't say the comparison makes the changes okay. She even said it at the end it could be "a sheer luck, since I’m still convinced no one in that organization actually knows how math works."

The purpose of the post is to show exactly that: Yuzu needs a flawless performance to work the flawed system. What's new in that?

Her call for everyone to calm down was a bit of a desperate, resigned plea too, cz, well. It's a proposed change, but as I understand it, it's a done deal already.

Unless of course, ISU have enough decency to walk back their error.

[hoodie axel]

It wasn't a weird dream? 

 

OK.

[SSS]

2 hours ago, Neenah said:

I am not sure using this particular result for comparison is that useful. Yuzu was flawless in this performance and that is very rare in the men's field. The new GOE, deductions and the weird PC guidelines would change things a lot for performances with mistakes.

maybe we should do the comparison on gpf17.really curious now.

[Neenah]

20 minutes ago, SSS said:

maybe we should do the comparison on gpf17.really curious now.

I tried to do it with the Olympics results (since it was a very good competition but everyone made mistakes) and got really confused  

 

The ISU are destroying my self esteem and confidence by making me doubt my intelligence and math skills  

[hoodie axel]

4 minutes ago, Neenah said:

The ISU are destroying my self esteem and confidence by making me doubt my intelligence and math skills  

It's not you it's them.

[hoodie axel]

4 hours ago, Neenah said:

I am probably missing something but how can a UR or a jump with edge call get +5 GOE  

 

Completely fairly, a UR jump could still have nice qualities. A big jump, with nice flow out might still be URed. So the BV is reduced, but it still has nice qualities. 

 

Not saying this is what will happen  of course.

[hoodie axel]

4 hours ago, Sombreuil said:

It'll be like 'quality' crossovers - quality URs and quality wrong edges and the judges will know them when they see them........

 

Again, quality crossovers ARE a real thing that show skating skills. Compare Yuzuru with Chen. Look at how much speed Yuzuru or Patrick get out of one crossover, and how they are able to maintain it. It's absolutely something that should be rewarded.

 

But, again, that's not what's really happening. 

 

It's sad when I can judge this sport more fairly than the ISU.

[SSS]

12 minutes ago, Neenah said:

I tried to do it with the Olympics results (since it was a very good competition but everyone made mistakes) and got really confused  

 

The ISU are destroying my self esteem and confidence by making me doubt my intelligence and math skills  

I was saying gpf17 and wc17 had a lot of serious errors/falls for the quad guys. I am so curious if the new rule would bring other triple guys to the podium.  It seems that a fall can cost almost 10 points with the new rule