Team Russia

[Lunna]

6 часов назад, Altie сказал:

 

Perhaps you should still watch it before judging it ? And other sources too ? And make your own opinion based on facts and different testimonies, see who you believe, who you don't ?

With that "I don't trust anybody" attitude there's no room for real information and critical mind, and much more room for alt facts. The less you search for the truth, the more room you make for disinformation.

 

"Icarus" was at first a documentary about doping in cycling, after the Lance Armstrong affair. They began filming it years before Sotchi. The idea was : the journalist takes some doping drugs, and films the effects, and talks about doping in sports, especially in america.

But the twist is : the guy who advices the journalist right from the beginning about the drugs is Grigorii Rodchenkov. The head of the anti-doping russian agency who was the whistle blower in the russian state doping affair in Sotchi.

And they were still filming the documentary when the shit hit the fans, so you see all happening "live".

And, yes, it's very eye-opening. And you have facts, but also the personnality of Rodchenkov who is quite a strange man. It's fascinating.

 

 

 

And I really hope russian athlete go to peongchang

 

Well, maybe I should if I have time someday, it's just very hard to find were is the truth with all that media wars nowadays. And the real trueth we might never know.

Rodchenkov indeed is a strange man that's why I said officials are still responsible for the situation, they hired him in the first place.

[Yatagarasu]

I just saw that so was coming over. I'd call that a definite green light, and though I think we should wait for the 12th to be on the safe side, I'd say this means it is probably a go.

 

The IOC left enough of a door open for him and he took it I would say. Good 

[Lunna]

5 часов назад, kaerb сказал:

I hope they feel shame

The saddest part is I think such people don't know that word at all. They'll get their warm place in another official department and that'll be it.

[Altie]

25 minutes ago, Lunna said:

Well, maybe I should if I have time someday, it's just very hard to find were is the truth with all that media wars nowadays. And the real trueth we might never know.

Rodchenkov indeed is a strange man that's why I said officials are still responsible for the situation, they hired him in the first place.

 

I respectfully disagree. Reliable, serious media and testimonies still exist, thankfully, and the truth can generally be found once you've read or watched several of said sources. It's just that the truth is never simple.

 

 

Very happy that Putin won't boycott. I'm very hopefull now. Then if russian athletes go to Peongchang under a "neutral" russian banner, then I think a very diplomatic solution to a very delicate problem would have been found. *crosses fingers*

 

Seriously, though. A ladies event without Zhenia would be so weird. The medals wouldn't have the same value. And she deserves so much to compete !

 

[ralucutzagy]

 

[Yatagarasu]

27 minutes ago, Altie said:

I respectfully disagree. Reliable, serious media and testimonies still exist, thankfully, and the truth can generally be found once you've read or watched several of said sources. It's just that the truth is never simple.

 

What you see as the truth, someone else won't and in general, people vary a lot on their acceptance of what is serious and reliable, trustworthy media, or organizations, or other individuals. Others read and watch things too, and their conclusions can be opposites to yours, even if you've read and seen the very same things. So I think we should probably leave it be as the chance of agreement is zero, these are difficult topics and not much can really be gained by professing truths in situations like these. Everyone's had their say and we've done all right here, I'm happy to say!

 

Whatever happened, we ended up with that IOC ruling yesterday, and today, we seem to have positive movement, so knock on wood, and we will have the best possible solution for the clean athletes in these circumstances and that's the one thing I am sure we can all agree on ultimately.

[Joey]

2 hours ago, Altie said:

I respectfully disagree. Reliable, serious media and testimonies still exist, thankfully, and the truth can generally be found once you've read or watched several of said sources. It's just that the truth is never simple.

 

What sources would that be? Because from where I looked, I haven't found any, and a lot was still reported as "might", "there are suspicions", or the definite statements between different sources contradicted each other.

And I'd like to add that I agree with what Yata just said - "truth" is never as universal as people might think. I've had to learn that pretty quickly in my are of work too (and I work in science, not journalism).

[Xen]

7 hours ago, SparkleSalad said:

 

I personally don't understand either, coming from a country so suspicious of authority that until very recently didn't give a hoot about its national day, but I feel terrible for any athletes who feel that it's not worth it to compete without their flag. I think it's a fair decision and I hope whatever anger the athletes are feeling gets directed towards the right people, though I understand if they want to blame those who handed down the decision. It must be devastating for them. I hope they receive support from Russia to compete but with things like refusing to even broadcast the Games, who knows.  An Olympic Games without Evgenia would be like GPF without Yuzu: weird and super asterisky. And the world deserves to see Baba Yaga.

Okay, butting my head into this nationalism thingy. I'm from China, a country that also is quite nationalistic. And I think, should this be China on the receiving end, and the country decided to boycott a competition, no athlete would have the guts to go. Reasons:

1) It is viewed as ungrateful. 

2) It is viewed as bowing to international pressure and siding with the enemy-in this case whomever is boycotted

 

Part of this is also because the sports system in ex-communist countries are so state/government based. Essentially, the sports system exists at the government's leisure, not for the sport or for the athlete's sake. Athletes income, training fees etc are more or less covered by the government. In short, outside of the government system, the athlete does not exist. And in a lot of the areas where China is competitive in, such as speed skating, ping-pong, gymnastics etc, there is no real system outside of the state, it is centrally controlled. 

Since the public is aware of the above, going against the government would have the athlete labeled as ungrateful by state media, and at some point picked up by nationalists and viewed as such nationally. It's suicide for a lot of the athletes then because even if they win, they might not be viewed as "good citizens" at home.  This also leads to point 2, which is since you went against the nation now and bite the hand that fed you, you're now part of the enemy.

 

People tend to forget, for events such as the olympics, there is a political overtone, of showing which government is "stronger" than others. It's not just about the athletes. Otherwise, why have medal tables? 

 

Anyways, back to Russia-good to see Putin isn't so strident. Allowing athletes to compete is still okay- people will figure out the athletes are from Russia anyways, since Russia will be part of the introduction right, with "Olympic athlete from Russia"? 

[yuzuangel]

1 hour ago, Mastyaeva said:

Guys, Putin just said they won't boycott the Olympics! No restrictions for athletes to go! 

https://rsport.ria.ru/olympic_games/20171206/1129694276.html 

Good news! I hope they all go!!

[WinForPooh]

I am glad that it looks like Russian athletes will be able to participate! They wouldn't have been able to, not really, if the official line had been opposed to it. But what's said so far seems to be positive and sympathetic to the athletes, so they can compete without popular sentiment turning against them when they go back home.

 

*crossing everything* At least that's what I read from what we've got, and that is good news.

[Yatagarasu]

16 minutes ago, Xen said:

Anyways, back to Russia-good to see Putin isn't so strident. Allowing athletes to compete is still okay- people will figure out the athletes are from Russia anyways, since Russia will be part of the introduction right, with "Olympic athlete from Russia"? 

 

Yes, and I am sure that was a concession to Russia, by the IOC. They know everything you've just said, and more of course, about the current situation, and they sure played it well.

Also at the end of the Games, if Russia complies with it all, they'll have the right to raise the Russian flag at the closing ceremony, another major move towards settling matters.

 

Of course, if everything sorts itself out as it appears that it now will, one thing is for sure - the Russian athletes, especially the skaters, are going to have so much pressure to perform and grab those medals. I think Zhenya will carry the brunt of it, and not just from the Russian but all media as with her appearance yesterday she's truly become the face of Russian winter sports, and all of them will to an extent. It's not going to be easy at all. I worry, Alina is still a child. Not an easy situation, any way we look at it. I really wish them all the best. 

[Xen]

2 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

 

Yes, and I am sure that was a concession to Russia, by the IOC. They know everything you've just said, and more of course, about the current situation, and they sure played it well.

Also at the end of the Games, if Russia complies with it all, they'll have the right to raise the Russian flag at the closing ceremony, another major move towards settling matters.

 

Of course, if everything sorts itself out as it appears that it now will, one thing is for sure - the Russian athletes, especially the skaters, are going to have so much pressure to perform and grab those medals. I think Zhenya will carry the brunt of it, and not just from the Russian but all media as with her appearance yesterday she's truly become the face of Russian winter sports, and all of them will to an extent. It's not going to be easy at all. I worry, Alina is still a child. Not an easy situation, any way we look at it. I really wish them all the best. 

Yes, glad to see such a concession is done. And really, really sorry for Zhenya and all the young ladies who will get the burden now. They know in figure skating it's on them. Yes, they have the mental fortitude, but it's not a burden that anyone so young should carry. T_T

[Guest turquoiseblue]

A message from Plu-sama 

 

[Lunna]

5 часов назад, WinForPooh сказал:

Odd, now you've made me think about how different sports are different. Being banned from the Olympics wouldn't matter much for athletes in sports where the big glory is in competitions other than the Olympics. Like tennis, I doubt elite tennis players would choose the Olympics over Wimbledon. Or football, who would choose the Olympics over the World Cup? But the World Cup is also all about combining personal glory with national pride, so it's different too.

Yes, that's the thing. And also FIFA isn't under WADA even as far as I understand

[Sayu93]

23 minutes ago, Lunna said:

Yes, that's the thing. And also FIFA isn't under WADA even as far as I understand

Yeah and Mr. Mutko is now head of the russian Football association...

ETA: Sry if this was . I'm glad the clean athletes have a chance of going. All in all I think the decision of the IOC was a diplomatic one. I'd have to read the fine print in depth to make a more in depth statement